TexasAggie_02 said:

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D12Lloyd said:

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This may have already been brought up but why couldn't Doctor Strange walk over and use the time stone to heal Tony after the snap?

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i think the damage from the stones is irreversible. after the initial snap, Thanos was able to heal the chest wound from stormbreaker, but not the damage to his arm from the gauntlet

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That's kind of where I was getting confused because I figured Thanos healed his chest with the time stone after the snap but didn't quite get why the same couldn't be done for Tony. You're probably right the effects of the stones can't be undone

Fightin TX Aggie said:

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D12Lloyd said:

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This may have already been brought up but why couldn't Doctor Strange walk over and use the time stone to heal Tony after the snap?

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Because he would have undone the snap. Much like Thanos reversed Wanda's destruction of the mind stone.

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That was my initial thought but Thanos healed himself from storm breaker post snap. I think what was said earlier about the stones effects being irreversible is correct

FTACO97 said:

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Not sure why people keep thinking that the sacrificed people for the Soul stone are stuck somewhere and can be freed? They're dead. We see their dead bodies laying on the ground where they fell. The Soul stone requires a sacrifice, nothing says the person sacrificed is saved somewhere.

As for the question about the Time stone and Dr Strange....that thought had not occurred to me, but now that I think about it, the stones ARE gone. Though the Eye of Agamotto was not Dr Strange's only power. He has plenty of other mystical powers. That one just gave the ability to turn back time.

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Valkyrie being there is what is confusing but might be due to me not remembering the end of Rag. Hulk's snap reverse, reverses Thanos' snap, not the other deaths that he made. For example, Loki, Heimdall, and other Asgardians do not come back because they were killed before the snap.

I assume that Valkyrie was on the ship. Why was her pre-snap death reversed?

D12Lloyd said:

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Fightin TX Aggie said:

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D12Lloyd said:

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This may have already been brought up but why couldn't Doctor Strange walk over and use the time stone to heal Tony after the snap?

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Because he would have undone the snap. Much like Thanos reversed Wanda's destruction of the mind stone.

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That was my initial thought but Thanos healed himself from storm breaker post snap. I think what was said earlier about the stones effects being irreversible is correct

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Did he use the time stone to reverse the event or some other stone to just simply heal himself?

caleblyn said:

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FTACO97 said:

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Not sure why people keep thinking that the sacrificed people for the Soul stone are stuck somewhere and can be freed? They're dead. We see their dead bodies laying on the ground where they fell. The Soul stone requires a sacrifice, nothing says the person sacrificed is saved somewhere.

As for the question about the Time stone and Dr Strange....that thought had not occurred to me, but now that I think about it, the stones ARE gone. Though the Eye of Agamotto was not Dr Strange's only power. He has plenty of other mystical powers. That one just gave the ability to turn back time.

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Valkyrie being there is what is confusing but might be due to me not remembering the end of Rag. Hulk's snap reverse, reverses Thanos' snap, not the other deaths that he made. For example, Loki, Heimdall, and other Asgardians do not come back because they were killed before the snap.

I assume that Valkyrie was on the ship. Why was her pre-snap death reversed?

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Uh, what?

You did see Hulk/Rocket interacting with Valkyrie at New Asgard? And Thor handing it over to her at the end of the film?

There's been an assumption that possibly before the scene we see at the start of Infinity War that Heimdahl may have sent some part of the group to Earth prior to Thanos' destruction. Since Korg and Miek were also alive in New Asgard when Hulk/Rocket show up.

caleblyn said:

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D12Lloyd said:

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Fightin TX Aggie said:

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D12Lloyd said:

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This may have already been brought up but why couldn't Doctor Strange walk over and use the time stone to heal Tony after the snap?

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Because he would have undone the snap. Much like Thanos reversed Wanda's destruction of the mind stone.

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That was my initial thought but Thanos healed himself from storm breaker post snap. I think what was said earlier about the stones effects being irreversible is correct

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Did he use the time stone to reverse the event or some other stone to just simply heal himself?

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I guess he could have used the reality stone

FTACO97 said:

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caleblyn said:

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FTACO97 said:

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Not sure why people keep thinking that the sacrificed people for the Soul stone are stuck somewhere and can be freed? They're dead. We see their dead bodies laying on the ground where they fell. The Soul stone requires a sacrifice, nothing says the person sacrificed is saved somewhere.

As for the question about the Time stone and Dr Strange....that thought had not occurred to me, but now that I think about it, the stones ARE gone. Though the Eye of Agamotto was not Dr Strange's only power. He has plenty of other mystical powers. That one just gave the ability to turn back time.

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Valkyrie being there is what is confusing but might be due to me not remembering the end of Rag. Hulk's snap reverse, reverses Thanos' snap, not the other deaths that he made. For example, Loki, Heimdall, and other Asgardians do not come back because they were killed before the snap.

I assume that Valkyrie was on the ship. Why was her pre-snap death reversed?

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Uh, what?

You did see Hulk/Rocket interacting with Valkyrie at New Asgard? And Thor handing it over to her at the end of the film?

There's been an assumption that possibly before the scene we see at the start of Infinity War that Heimdahl may have sent some part of the group to Earth prior to Thanos' destruction. Since Korg and Miek were also alive in New Asgard when Hulk/Rocket show up.

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This is what I am talking about. I assumed she died on the ship and Thor was only survivor since he is considered a god and can float around space w/o dying.

Finally saw this yesterday and like most of you loved it. All the daughter scenes got to me, as well as Tony hugging Peter during the battle.

hurleyag said:

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We see Valkyrie post snap at New Asguard. Thanos only killed half the Asguardians. They just don't go into where they are at the beginning of IW.

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He blows the ship up. Thor is floating in space. I guess we can assume Thanos took 50% onto his ship or transported them to another ship where the ignored Thor floating in space. :/

caleblyn said:

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hurleyag said:

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We see Valkyrie post snap at New Asguard. Thanos only killed half the Asguardians. They just don't go into where they are at the beginning of IW.

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He blows the ship up. Thor is floating in space. I guess we can assume Thanos took 50% onto his ship or transported them to another ship where the ignored Thor floating in space. :/

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I think it's more likely Heimdahl transported a group of them off the ship when Thanos shows up.

caleblyn said:

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FTACO97 said:

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caleblyn said:

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FTACO97 said:

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Not sure why people keep thinking that the sacrificed people for the Soul stone are stuck somewhere and can be freed? They're dead. We see their dead bodies laying on the ground where they fell. The Soul stone requires a sacrifice, nothing says the person sacrificed is saved somewhere.

As for the question about the Time stone and Dr Strange....that thought had not occurred to me, but now that I think about it, the stones ARE gone. Though the Eye of Agamotto was not Dr Strange's only power. He has plenty of other mystical powers. That one just gave the ability to turn back time.

---

Valkyrie being there is what is confusing but might be due to me not remembering the end of Rag. Hulk's snap reverse, reverses Thanos' snap, not the other deaths that he made. For example, Loki, Heimdall, and other Asgardians do not come back because they were killed before the snap.

I assume that Valkyrie was on the ship. Why was her pre-snap death reversed?

---

Uh, what?

You did see Hulk/Rocket interacting with Valkyrie at New Asgard? And Thor handing it over to her at the end of the film?

There's been an assumption that possibly before the scene we see at the start of Infinity War that Heimdahl may have sent some part of the group to Earth prior to Thanos' destruction. Since Korg and Miek were also alive in New Asgard when Hulk/Rocket show up.

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This is what I am talking about. I assumed she died on the ship and Thor was only survivor since he is considered a god and can float around space w/o dying.

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Yeah, I was a little surprised to see some Asgardians milling about Earth.

FTACO97 said:

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caleblyn said:

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FTACO97 said:

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Not sure why people keep thinking that the sacrificed people for the Soul stone are stuck somewhere and can be freed? They're dead. We see their dead bodies laying on the ground where they fell. The Soul stone requires a sacrifice, nothing says the person sacrificed is saved somewhere.

As for the question about the Time stone and Dr Strange....that thought had not occurred to me, but now that I think about it, the stones ARE gone. Though the Eye of Agamotto was not Dr Strange's only power. He has plenty of other mystical powers. That one just gave the ability to turn back time.

---

Valkyrie being there is what is confusing but might be due to me not remembering the end of Rag. Hulk's snap reverse, reverses Thanos' snap, not the other deaths that he made. For example, Loki, Heimdall, and other Asgardians do not come back because they were killed before the snap.

I assume that Valkyrie was on the ship. Why was her pre-snap death reversed?

---

Uh, what?

You did see Hulk/Rocket interacting with Valkyrie at New Asgard? And Thor handing it over to her at the end of the film?

There's been an assumption that possibly before the scene we see at the start of Infinity War that Heimdahl may have sent some part of the group to Earth prior to Thanos' destruction. Since Korg and Miek were also alive in New Asgard when Hulk/Rocket show up.

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The assumption is that Thor, Hulk, Loki & Heimdall were basically protecting a full retreat by the Asgardians (whom Valkyrie was leading away). Thus, Thanos didn't kill all of them. However, the snap wipes out another 50%.

wangus12 said:

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FTACO97 said:

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caleblyn said:

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FTACO97 said:

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Not sure why people keep thinking that the sacrificed people for the Soul stone are stuck somewhere and can be freed? They're dead. We see their dead bodies laying on the ground where they fell. The Soul stone requires a sacrifice, nothing says the person sacrificed is saved somewhere.

As for the question about the Time stone and Dr Strange....that thought had not occurred to me, but now that I think about it, the stones ARE gone. Though the Eye of Agamotto was not Dr Strange's only power. He has plenty of other mystical powers. That one just gave the ability to turn back time.

---

Valkyrie being there is what is confusing but might be due to me not remembering the end of Rag. Hulk's snap reverse, reverses Thanos' snap, not the other deaths that he made. For example, Loki, Heimdall, and other Asgardians do not come back because they were killed before the snap.

I assume that Valkyrie was on the ship. Why was her pre-snap death reversed?

---

Uh, what?

You did see Hulk/Rocket interacting with Valkyrie at New Asgard? And Thor handing it over to her at the end of the film?

There's been an assumption that possibly before the scene we see at the start of Infinity War that Heimdahl may have sent some part of the group to Earth prior to Thanos' destruction. Since Korg and Miek were also alive in New Asgard when Hulk/Rocket show up.

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The assumption is that Thor, Hulk, Loki & Heimdall were basically protecting a full retreat by the Asgardians (whom Valkyrie was leading away). Thus, Thanos didn't kill all of them. However, the snap wipes out another 50%.

Fair enough. It is a gap in the story that can easily be filled with an assumption and move on.

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What about Loki in NYC taking the Tesseract and poofing away? I guess we need to assume that Cap goes back to NYC and lets Hulk take the elevator.

i'm pretty sure that at some point last year, the Russo's said that Valkyrie led the evacuation of the ship while Thor, Loki, Heimdall and Hulk stayed to fight. So they got as many Asgardians to escape pods as possible. But then half of them got snapped as well.

caleblyn said:

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What about Loki in NYC taking the Tesseract and poofing away? I guess we need to assume that Cap goes back to NYC and lets Hulk take the elevator.

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That's a different timeline.

It's confusing they way they explain it in the movie, but you cannot change your own past. It happened. as soon as you travel back to your past, you instantly create a diverging timeline that is completely separate from your own. So in the MCU, time paradoxes do not exist, you just keep splitting off new timelines. So there is now an alternate universe where Loki escapes with the Tesseract. Sucks for those folks, but it does not effect the Prime timeline in any way.

When cap goes back to the 1940s to be with Peggy, he creates a new timeline where they get married and grow old together. That technically is not his Peggy, she still got married to someone else in the Prime timeline b/c you cannot change your own past. But with all intents and purposes, she is "Peggy-enough" b/c her shared history with Steve would still be the same up to that point that he traveled back to the past.

Funny observation on Reddit i saw: Imagine later in life when Peggy's Niece Sharon Carter is coming of age. Imagine creepy uncle Steve fondly looking at her b/c they hooked up in Civil War in the main timeline.

I think most of the time travel stuff was handled pretty well, but the Captain America going back to return the stones is a little fuzzy and seems to break the movie's established rules. Why did he have to return the stones if a new reality was created? You can't change what happened, so what's the point? When he did go back, according to the rules set by the movie, a new reality was created anyways so they weren't put back into the original timeline to begin with.

Bruce Almighty said:

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I think most of the time travel stuff was handled pretty well, but the Captain America going back to return the stones is a little fuzzy and seems to break the movie's established rules. Why did he have to return the stones if a new reality was created? You can't change what happened, so what's the point? When he did go back, according to the rules set by the movie, a new reality was created anyways so they weren't put back into the original timeline to begin with.

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well, for one, without the time stone, that new reality would be consumed by Dormammu and the dark dimension. so there's that. Also, since they took the tesseract from the 70s, there would be no captain marvel in that timeline. and no vision/wanda/quicksilver from the mind stone.

if they never returned the stones, thanos would never get them, but then again he would just keep going from planet to planet like he had been before slaughtering people the old fashioned way.

Bruce Almighty said:

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I think most of the time travel stuff was handled pretty well, but the Captain America going back to return the stones is a little fuzzy and seems to break the movie's established rules. Why did he have to return the stones if a new reality was created? You can't change what happened, so what's the point? When he did go back, according to the rules set by the movie, a new reality was created anyways so they weren't put back into the original timeline to begin with.

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you create an alternate reality if you don't put the stones back.

Flashdiaz said:

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Bruce Almighty said:

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I think most of the time travel stuff was handled pretty well, but the Captain America going back to return the stones is a little fuzzy and seems to break the movie's established rules. Why did he have to return the stones if a new reality was created? You can't change what happened, so what's the point? When he did go back, according to the rules set by the movie, a new reality was created anyways so they weren't put back into the original timeline to begin with.

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you create an alternate reality if you don't put the stones back.

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just traveling back in time already created an alternate reality. it's just that it could be much worse if you don't put the stones back.

TexasAggie_02 said:

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Bruce Almighty said:

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I think most of the time travel stuff was handled pretty well, but the Captain America going back to return the stones is a little fuzzy and seems to break the movie's established rules. Why did he have to return the stones if a new reality was created? You can't change what happened, so what's the point? When he did go back, according to the rules set by the movie, a new reality was created anyways so they weren't put back into the original timeline to begin with.

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well, for one, without the time stone, that new reality would be consumed by Dormammu and the dark dimension. so there's that. Also, since they took the tesseract from the 70s, there would be no captain marvel in that timeline. and no vision/wanda/quicksilver from the mind stone.

if they never returned the stones, thanos would never get them, but then again he would just keep going from planet to planet like he had been before slaughtering people the old fashioned way.

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Its still confusing and seems to get into that grandfather paradox that the movie was trying to avoid with the alternate realities. The past can't be changed, so once they defeated Thanos, what's already happened in that reality can't be changed or undone. Doramammu can't consume the reality because it didn't already happen. If Captain Marvel is already existing, then the tesseract doesn't need to be replaced, because she's there in that timeline.

dave94 said:

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jtstanley4621 said:

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Also when Cap was getting his ass kicked by Thanos there was a part of me that thought he was gonna get up and say "I can do this all day" as a throwback to the first captain America movie.

What ensued was one of the most badass shots I've ever seen in a movie, so I can't complain too much. Truly looked like a still frame from a comic book

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Haven't had a chance for a second viewing yet, what specifically are you referring to?

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I was talking about the moment right before everyone showed up from the portals to fight Thanos and his army. Like when Cap was struggling to his feet. He ended up saying "Avengers assemble" after everyone got there, so the payoff was basically the same.

Bruce Almighty said:

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TexasAggie_02 said:

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Bruce Almighty said:

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I think most of the time travel stuff was handled pretty well, but the Captain America going back to return the stones is a little fuzzy and seems to break the movie's established rules. Why did he have to return the stones if a new reality was created? You can't change what happened, so what's the point? When he did go back, according to the rules set by the movie, a new reality was created anyways so they weren't put back into the original timeline to begin with.

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well, for one, without the time stone, that new reality would be consumed by Dormammu and the dark dimension. so there's that. Also, since they took the tesseract from the 70s, there would be no captain marvel in that timeline. and no vision/wanda/quicksilver from the mind stone.

if they never returned the stones, thanos would never get them, but then again he would just keep going from planet to planet like he had been before slaughtering people the old fashioned way.

---

Its still confusing and seems to get into that grandfather paradox that the movie was trying to avoid with the alternate realities. The past can't be changed, so once they defeated Thanos, what's already happened in that reality can't be changed or undone. Doramammu can't consume the reality because it didn't already happen. If Captain Marvel is already existing, then the tesseract doesn't need to be replaced, because she's there in that timeline.

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you can't change YOUR past, you can effectively change the past, by creating a diverging timeline.

In the prime MCU Cap never fought himself in 2012. Rocket didn't take the aether from jane. War Machine never punched Star Lord in the face. Those are all in new timelines. the stones came from new timelines that were just created. They borrow the stones from alternate realities. They need to put them back, or those realities may face greater negative consequences.

https://ew.com/movies/2019/05/01/how-avengers-endgame-impacts-spider-man-far-from-home/

TexasAggie_02 said:

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Bruce Almighty said:

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TexasAggie_02 said:

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Bruce Almighty said:

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I think most of the time travel stuff was handled pretty well, but the Captain America going back to return the stones is a little fuzzy and seems to break the movie's established rules. Why did he have to return the stones if a new reality was created? You can't change what happened, so what's the point? When he did go back, according to the rules set by the movie, a new reality was created anyways so they weren't put back into the original timeline to begin with.

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well, for one, without the time stone, that new reality would be consumed by Dormammu and the dark dimension. so there's that. Also, since they took the tesseract from the 70s, there would be no captain marvel in that timeline. and no vision/wanda/quicksilver from the mind stone.

if they never returned the stones, thanos would never get them, but then again he would just keep going from planet to planet like he had been before slaughtering people the old fashioned way.

---

Its still confusing and seems to get into that grandfather paradox that the movie was trying to avoid with the alternate realities. The past can't be changed, so once they defeated Thanos, what's already happened in that reality can't be changed or undone. Doramammu can't consume the reality because it didn't already happen. If Captain Marvel is already existing, then the tesseract doesn't need to be replaced, because she's there in that timeline.

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you can't change YOUR past, you can effectively change the past, by creating a diverging timeline.

In the prime MCU Cap never fought himself in 2012. Rocket didn't take the aether from jane. War Machine never punched Star Lord in the face. Those are all in new timelines. the stones came from new timelines that were just created. They borrow the stones from alternate realities. They need to put them back, or those realities may face greater negative consequences.

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But if he's going back to past, isn't he just creating a new reality? I thought in the movie, they said every time you jumped in the past, a new reality was being created. So for example, when he jumped to the 70s to return the tesseract, isn't he just returning the stone to a new timeline that he just created and not the one where it was stolen in the first place?

TCTTS said:

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Bruce Almighty said:

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I think most of the time travel stuff was handled pretty well, but the Captain America going back to return the stones is a little fuzzy and seems to break the movie's established rules. Why did he have to return the stones if a new reality was created? You can't change what happened, so what's the point? When he did go back, according to the rules set by the movie, a new reality was created anyways so they weren't put back into the original timeline to begin with.

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The Bruce/Ancient One convo on the rooftop seemed to explain this pretty clearly.

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Two new realities were created (kind of)...Cap staying back and Loki taking the Tesseract in NYC. We can assume that Cap takes care of the Loki issue by traveling back to NYC, fixing that problem and then traveling back to put the Tesseract back in it's place and then staying with Carter. Cap's alternate reality merges back into the same line in present-day.

jackie childs said:

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honestly, i've tried to avoid thinking about the time travel elements too much. though i did find it odd that when Scott first tells them about it, he comments that he's been down there for 5 years, but it only feels like a couple of hours to him. yet the rest of the movie, it's the complete opposite effect.

not sure they really explain that other than to explain that "time works differently in the QR"

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that's different.

Antman didn't time travel in that case. he was just stuck there. in the quantum realm.

what tony figured out was how to travel through the realm and come out at intended times. so then when they time travel they then pop out whenever (2012, 2014, etc.)... and they intentionally pop back to the main timeline like 5 seconds after they left.

Bruce Almighty said:

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TexasAggie_02 said:

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Bruce Almighty said:

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TexasAggie_02 said:

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Bruce Almighty said:

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I think most of the time travel stuff was handled pretty well, but the Captain America going back to return the stones is a little fuzzy and seems to break the movie's established rules. Why did he have to return the stones if a new reality was created? You can't change what happened, so what's the point? When he did go back, according to the rules set by the movie, a new reality was created anyways so they weren't put back into the original timeline to begin with.

---

well, for one, without the time stone, that new reality would be consumed by Dormammu and the dark dimension. so there's that. Also, since they took the tesseract from the 70s, there would be no captain marvel in that timeline. and no vision/wanda/quicksilver from the mind stone.

if they never returned the stones, thanos would never get them, but then again he would just keep going from planet to planet like he had been before slaughtering people the old fashioned way.

---

Its still confusing and seems to get into that grandfather paradox that the movie was trying to avoid with the alternate realities. The past can't be changed, so once they defeated Thanos, what's already happened in that reality can't be changed or undone. Doramammu can't consume the reality because it didn't already happen. If Captain Marvel is already existing, then the tesseract doesn't need to be replaced, because she's there in that timeline.

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you can't change YOUR past, you can effectively change the past, by creating a diverging timeline.

In the prime MCU Cap never fought himself in 2012. Rocket didn't take the aether from jane. War Machine never punched Star Lord in the face. Those are all in new timelines. the stones came from new timelines that were just created. They borrow the stones from alternate realities. They need to put them back, or those realities may face greater negative consequences.

---

But if he's going back to past, isn't he just creating a new reality? I thought in the movie, they said every time you jumped in the past, a new reality was being created. So for example, when he jumped to the 70s to return the tesseract, isn't he just returning the stone to a new timeline that he just created and not the one where it was stolen in the first place?

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I'm assuming that the quantum GPS allows him to go back to that exact timeline at the exact moment that the stone was taken. But yes, i guess it is possible that it would create a new timeline, to where you have a timeline where the stone is lost forever, and another timeline where the stone was brought back.