Well said. Great movie.

Fantastic post

Something else I haven't seen discussed - which I'm sure I just missed - but how did Cap return the Soul Stone? And is there any way he could have got Nat back for returning it? There's that hilarious "Son of... a b*tch" meme going around of Cap showing up to Vormir, but really, how did he return it? What would Red Skull say/do if someone wanted to return the stone instead of take it? How would that work? Am I missing something that's already been addressed?

I noticed this go-around how many times various characters underlined that Nat's gone for good. Even Banner says he tried to bring her back with his snap, but no dice. It was almost suspicious, though, how much they kept repeating that. To the point where it got me thinking, is there anyway that's part of the plot of the Black Widow movie next year? It still feels super weird to me that Marvel is kicking off Phase Four with what everyone (myself included) is assuming is a Black Widow prequel movie. It begins filming next month, and thus will be the first Phase Four movie to begin production, so it's all but confirmed that it's the May 2020 release, and thus will be the first Phase Four movie to be released. But why start that phase with a "flashback" movie that will likely take place sometime pre/during Phase One? Honestly, I'd rather Nat stay dead, so deaths truly do mean something in this world, but not everything seems to be adding up, and I'm wondering if Cap returning the Soul Stone has any potential bearing on that?

And now I'm wondering how Cap put the Aether/Reality Stone back in Jane and suddenly we could have our first MCU porno as well...

TCTTS said:

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And now I'm wondering how Cap put the Aether/Reality Stone back in Jane and suddenly we could have our first MCU porno as well...

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This is a quote from Russo about the soul stone and red skull. It sounds like you can't get a soul back, so she's dead for real. I hope that's the case, it's important for her character for her death to be meaningful.

"Red Skull would probably put the soul stone back to its location, and wait for the next unfortunate stone seeker to make sacrifice. Cap and Red Skull probably won't fight. It's because it's his mission to return the stone to its original place. The Red Skull is also no longer the same Red Skull from FA. He is more like a ghost, you could almost say he's a completely different entity now. He only exists to guard the stone, his past conscious may or may not exist anymore."

In regards to Jane, I don't think cap actually needs to put it back in her. As long as the stone is in that time line, that's the important part.

I want to see that as well. Also, I want to see him react to music post 1985 whatever year he left.

Incredible film. My only complaint was that Hulk didn't smash.

Also, the only potential plot hole that is bothering me and I'm sure it has been discussed is Valkyrie being alive. They showed her dead lying amongst a bunch of bodies in IW(?). So, these were the folks that ultimately made up New Asgard and they actually all lived?

Some of the Asgardians (maybe half?) made it off the ship in IW. Unfortunately, this could only have been known by director comments after IW. I guess Thor and the others bought time for some escape pods to get away, or something.

I want to know how Cap put the space stone back in the tesseract.

rhutton125 said:

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Some of the Asgardians (maybe half?) made it off the ship in IW. Unfortunately, this could only have been known by director comments after IW. I guess Thor and the others bought time for some escape pods to get away, or something.

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Interesting. Seems like a miss because they clearly show her dead and never show her again. Also, where did Pegasus come from?

TCTTS said:

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...

I noticed this go-around how many times various characters underlined that Nat's gone for good. Even Banner says he tried to bring her back with his snap, but no dice. It was almost suspicious, though, how much they kept repeating that. To the point where it got me thinking, is there anyway that's part of the plot of the Black Widow movie next year? It still feels super weird to me that Marvel is kicking off Phase Four with what everyone (myself included) is assuming is a Black Widow prequel movie. It begins filming next month, and thus will be the first Phase Four movie to begin production, so it's all but confirmed that it's the May 2020 release, and thus will be the first Phase Four movie to be released. But why start that phase with a "flashback" movie that will likely take place sometime pre/during Phase One? Honestly, I'd rather Nat stay dead, so deaths truly do mean something in this world, but not everything seems to be adding up, and I'm wondering if Cap returning the Soul Stone has any potential bearing on that?

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It seems to me like they said Spiderman FFH is the final movie of this phase, and then comes the next phase. BW is part of the next phase so I don't see it carrying anything over from this one, therefore a prequel.

OTOH, Thor and the GOTG together IS a carryover, so I don't know....

Brian Earl Spilner said:

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I want to see that as well. Also, I want to see him react to music post 1985 whatever year he left.

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Considering some of the ideas he posted, maybe you should have quoted the one you were referring to.

rhutton125 said:

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She wasn't shown dead in IW. She's not in it at all. You may be thinking of a random dead Asgardian it pans over.

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Yeah, upon further reading I see that. I had it in my mind that they showed her lying amongst all the other dead folks in the opening scene of IW. I just rewatched on YouTube but can't really see anything. So, it's more of a continuity issue than anything. She must have just left between Ragnarok and IW.

YouBet said:

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rhutton125 said:

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She wasn't shown dead in IW. She's not in it at all. You may be thinking of a random dead Asgardian it pans over.

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Yeah, upon further reading I see that. I had it in my mind that they showed her lying amongst all the other dead folks in the opening scene of IW. I just rewatched on YouTube but can't really see anything. So, it's more of a continuity issue than anything. She must have just left between Ragnarok and IW.

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I believe the russo's stated a year ago that she helped others get to escape pods while Thanos was attacking.

https://comicbook.com/marvel/2018/05/01/avengers-infinity-war-valkyrie-asgardian-fate/

Passing Avatar is not looking as guaranteed as it did last week. Still $300M to go but domestic drops are pretty steep so far. Gotta stay really strong overseas to have a shot.

50/50 at this point imo.

MooreTrucker said:

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TCTTS said:

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I noticed this go-around how many times various characters underlined that Nat's gone for good. Even Banner says he tried to bring her back with his snap, but no dice. It was almost suspicious, though, how much they kept repeating that. To the point where it got me thinking, is there anyway that's part of the plot of the Black Widow movie next year? It still feels super weird to me that Marvel is kicking off Phase Four with what everyone (myself included) is assuming is a Black Widow prequel movie. It begins filming next month, and thus will be the first Phase Four movie to begin production, so it's all but confirmed that it's the May 2020 release, and thus will be the first Phase Four movie to be released. But why start that phase with a "flashback" movie that will likely take place sometime pre/during Phase One? Honestly, I'd rather Nat stay dead, so deaths truly do mean something in this world, but not everything seems to be adding up, and I'm wondering if Cap returning the Soul Stone has any potential bearing on that?

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It seems to me like they said Spiderman FFH is the final movie of this phase, and then comes the next phase. BW is part of the next phase so I don't see it carrying anything over from this one, therefore a prequel.

OTOH, Thor and the GOTG together IS a carryover, so I don't know....

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I think you're missing my point. Just saying "BW is part of the next phase" doesn't undo the fact that if it is, indeed, a prequel, it's taking place during the time period of Phase One (i.e. sometime between the 1940s and 2012). Each phase so far has told a specific story / been contained to a certain time period. Yet, now, for some reason, starting with Phase Four, the first movie in the post-Thanos phase is going to take place during the time of Phase One? That just seems weird to me. You'd think that Marvel would want the first Phase Four movie to actually move the story forward in a post-Thanos world, give us a hint at things to come, etc. The Eternals will likely be that, but that's probably going to be the second Phase Four movie, not the first. If BW is a prequel, it'll be the first time that the story in a Marvel movie doesn't actually take place during the time period of the phase it's a part of. Which has me thinking, MAYBE it will somehow be a sequel instead, even though I'd prefer Nat stay dead.

Maybe in the new/alternate Cap timeline?

Yeah, that might work too. Basically, given the circumstances, anything other than a literal prequel would make more sense.

They'd said a while back that maybe Phase 4 would be different than people expect, maybe not even called Phase 4. Maybe from now on they'll do a lot of different stuff.

I think that means things like pure, irrelevant prequels that may not contribute to any overarching Phase 4 plot. One-offs, maybe. A Captain Marvel film in between 1994 and 2019 would fill that same kind of "purpose" (of lack of).

The Black Widow situation is definitely a weird one, but I don't think they have to jump through any hoops to explain why it exists. They just want to provide some backstory for a character that was with us for 9 years - even if her story is already over.

Not the way I would have done it, but oh well. There are a lot weirder ideas out there (DC's Joker or Trench spin-offs, for example, or Sony's rumored Aunt May prequel for the now defunct ASM universe).

If that's the case, this makes way more sense. Seeing as they'll never be able to top the Infinity Saga again, it's probably best they do away with phases altogether. Hadn't heard that before, but I'm all for it.

Guess we'll see! I imagine they'll still call it something at some point - maybe even Phase 4 - but it won't be solely focused on building up to an "Avengers" finale maybe.

I've got some Phase 4 predictions but I don't see how many of them intersect. Maybe you'll have a few pockets of shared worlds but maybe the Guardians and Avengers never really team up again - that kind of thing.

I'm expecting BW to be a prequel but introduce a character or major plot point for Phase 4. I've only read the Edmondson/Noto BW comics run from a few years ago so I don't really have any good theories.
Maybe setting the stage for the Secret Avengers to come together in BW's memory as the post-Thanos, Earth-bound heroes?

That could be cool. Hadn't thought of that angle.

rhutton125 said:

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They'd said a while back that maybe Phase 4 would be different than people expect, maybe not even called Phase 4. Maybe from now on they'll do a lot of different stuff.

I think that means things like pure, irrelevant prequels that may not contribute to any overarching Phase 4 plot. One-offs, maybe. A Captain Marvel film in between 1994 and 2019 would fill that same kind of "purpose" (of lack of).

The Black Widow situation is definitely a weird one, but I don't think they have to jump through any hoops to explain why it exists. They just want to provide some backstory for a character that was with us for 9 years - even if her story is already over.

Not the way I would have done it, but oh well. There are a lot weirder ideas out there (DC's Joker or Trench spin-offs, for example, or Sony's rumored Aunt May prequel for the now defunct ASM universe).

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Wut? Why?

Apparently she was a former spy or some such. At least that's what Sony thought would make a kickass film back in 2014.

I read that in the final battle there is a very quick appearance of Howard the Duck. Did anyone see him? I missed it. He's made appearances in both Guardian movies.

Have a link to it? I'd love to see it.

I believe it's somewhere previous in this thread. No idea what page though.

PanzerAggie06 said:

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Have a link to it? I'd love to see it.

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