Avengers Endgame *** SPOILERS THREAD *** YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED

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hurleyag
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4:35p, 4/29/19
AG
Was Thor's intentions always to keep Mjolnir?

I don't recall them mentioning returning the stones (and hammer) until the Ancient One explained it to Banner after they had all separated into the past.
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TexasAggie_02
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In reply to TCTTS • 4:39p, 4/29/19
AG
TCTTS said:
Would it even have to be 2014 Nat? Couldn't they technically travel back to just before the initial time heist and grab THAT Nat?

(Which I'm not advocating, btw - I think she should stay dead - just saying.)
i guess so, but then wouldn't that screw up that then newly created timeline?

they way they are handling time travel in this movie is pretty confusing

basically, you cannot alter your own past. Going back into the past just creates another reality that branches from there. But due to using the Quantum Realm GPS thingy, they are able to return to their own reality.

So it doesn't matter that 2023 Nebula killed 2014 Nebula. When 2023 Nebula went to the past, she created a new timeline. So there is now an alternate reality where Nebula and Thanos are dead before the GOTG ever forms. Do the Guardians ever get together in that alternate timeline? who knows. Ronin still knows about the stones, so he will probably still go after it, so they may still form up.

Back to the original question. If you go back and retrieve Nat from right before the time heist, you could then have "your" Nat back, but from that point forward, you have now created a split in the timeline where they do not have Nat.

Likewise, there is a timeline where Loki gets away with the Tesseract. Do they ever get it back? that was used to rebuild the BiFrost. That new timeline may be royally effed now. Also, steve returned the stones, but he did not return the scepter or the tesseract. Those had to be destroyed to remove the stones. So you know have a timeline where when project pegasus begins, that they go into storage to get the tesseract and see that they have a small blue stone instead. what happens then? With loki's scepter, if HYDRA doesn't get their hands on it, Wanda doesn't get her powers.

The Avengers may have saved their own Universe, but they really threw a wrench into all the alternate realities they created.

Still a good movie. Hopefully the Disney+ Loki series is based upon what happens in this alternate reality.

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rhutton125
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4:40p, 4/29/19
AG
They'll probably leave the time travel alone for a good long while, but if they ever wanted another Avengers (or Fantastic Four!) film to deal with timeline repercussions, then Kang the Conqueror would be the villain to do it. He's pretty great, and time jumping is kind of his thing.
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C@LAg
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In reply to veryfuller • 4:43p, 4/29/19
Sine poena nulla lex.
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TexasAggie_02
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In reply to israeliag • 4:51p, 4/29/19
AG
israeliag said:
Interview with the writers:
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/29/movies/avengers-endgame-questions-and-answers.html
Quote:
Did you try any other approaches to the time-travel story?

McFEELY In the first draft, we didn't go back to the [original]"Avengers" movie. We went back to Asgard. But there's a moment in the M.C.U., if you're paying very close attention, where the Aether is there and the Tesseract is in the vault. In that iteration, we were interested in Tony going to Asgard. He had a stealth suit, so he was invisible, and he fought Heimdall, who could see him.
I would have loved to have seen this
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Fightin TX Aggie
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4:52p, 4/29/19
AG
Having now seen it twice, I have a few more thoughts. I should have taken notes!

1. Was confused at first when Strange held up his finger. Maybe it was obvious to everyone, but he was telling Stark, "This is the 1 chance. Time to take it."

2. Related, when Stark sees Strange earlier in the battle, Strange won't tell him how to win. Maybe he knows Stark wouldn't make the selfless play, lay down on a wire to protect the other guy, if he had too much time to think about it. Which makes sense especially considering what Howard Stark said to Tony about Howard's selfishness.

3. Related to Stark dying, earlier in the movie, Tony says he could stop doing his time machine research. Pepper replies, "But could you rest?" Maybe you all got that first time through, but I didn't.

4. When Future Nebula kills Past Nebula, Past Nebula has a tear in her eye. She wanted to be like Future Nebula But didn't think she was able.

5. Thanos was a complete badarse with that sword and no stones.

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cav14
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In reply to rhutton125 • 4:55p, 4/29/19
rhutton125 said:
Captain Marvel has short hair in the comics at times. She's not a lesbian, but they could make her one if they wanted to. But the hair doesn't signal her sexual preferences any more than Tony Stark's beard made him a beatnik in 1970.
Funny because Howard says to Jarvis something to the effect of "I think I've seen that beatnik before" after Tony leaves from their hug.
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PatAg
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In reply to cav14 • 4:59p, 4/29/19
AG
cav14 said:
rhutton125 said:
Captain Marvel has short hair in the comics at times. She's not a lesbian, but they could make her one if they wanted to. But the hair doesn't signal her sexual preferences any more than Tony Stark's beard made him a beatnik in 1970.
Funny because Howard says to Jarvis something to the effect of "I think I've seen that beatnik before" after Tony leaves from their hug.
That's why he mentioned it...
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PooDoo
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In reply to Fightin TX Aggie • 4:59p, 4/29/19
AG
Pretty sure he started with 2 pretty big stones.
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israeliag
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In reply to Fightin TX Aggie • 5:00p, 4/29/19
AG
Fightin TX Aggie said:

5. Thanos was a complete badarse with that sword and no stones.

The character arc they gave Thanos was pretty incredible. To have past Thanos's character grow from the natural point of dead Thanos was impressive.
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FTACO97
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In reply to TCTTS • 5:02p, 4/29/19
AG
TCTTS said:
Speaking of, I can't remember how 2014 Thanos time traveled to the present. I know 2014 Nebula obviously took present-day Nebula's place and used her suit, but I'm blanking on the sequence of events that allowed Thanos & co to show up on his ship in the present day as well.
There was a scene that showed 2014 Nebula handing Thanos the Pym particles from present-day Nebula's suit. I'm sure they figured out a way to reverse engineer it so that 2014 Nebula could travel back and 2014 Thanos/Ship could travel to 2023.
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cav14
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In reply to TexasAggie_02 • 5:12p, 4/29/19
TexasAggie_02 said:
israeliag said:
Interview with the writers:
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/29/movies/avengers-endgame-questions-and-answers.html
Quote:
Did you try any other approaches to the time-travel story?

McFEELY In the first draft, we didn't go back to the [original]"Avengers" movie. We went back to Asgard. But there's a moment in the M.C.U., if you're paying very close attention, where the Aether is there and the Tesseract is in the vault. In that iteration, we were interested in Tony going to Asgard. He had a stealth suit, so he was invisible, and he fought Heimdall, who could see him.
I would have loved to have seen this
Me too, but what we got was much better. Cap vs Cap, America's ass, Hail Hydra, Tony talking to Howard, etc.
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FL_Ag1998
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5:15p, 4/29/19
AG
I'm really glad that none of you actually write for the Marvel movies, or they would have ended up being some really lame, cheesy movies...actually probably just like the DC movies.
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C@LAg
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In reply to PooDoo • 5:16p, 4/29/19
Sine poena nulla lex.
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Sex Panther
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In reply to cav14 • 5:19p, 4/29/19
AG
Quote:
Me too, but what we got was much better. Cap vs Cap, America's ass, Hail Hydra, Tony talking to Howard, etc.

It was pure greatness. So awesome to see the MCU's greatest hits and none more so than the original Avengers team up. And Cap vs Cap was just fantastic.


"That is America's ass"
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Tone2002
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5:23p, 4/29/19
Great movie for what it was. I'm just not into that time travel storyline and I mean with any movie/tv show etc...

But it was good to see some story arcs wrap up and new one began.
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AgfromHOU
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In reply to FL_Ag1998 • 5:27p, 4/29/19
AG
FL_Ag1998 said:
I'm really glad that none of you actually write for the Marvel movies, or they would have ended up being some really lame, cheesy movies...actually probably just like the DC movies.


Oh look, another mention..
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TCTTS
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5:58p, 4/29/19
AG
Sometimes I read breakdowns like the one below and it hits me just how special the Entertainment board can be. While fairly thorough, I feel like if Peter - and those of his ilk - could have simply read this thread, his breakdown would be so much better, with even fewer question (as in the final section).

Which got me thinking... save for Reddit, where else on the internet are there threads with THIS much quality discussion and analyzation for a movie like this? Conducted by relatively sane individuals with degrees, families, decent jobs, etc., i.e. not all mouth-breathers who live in their mothers' basements? I'm sure there's some huge Marvel forum I know nothing about, and there's TheForce.net for Star Wars, of course, but where else does a board or discussion exists to THIS extent on the internet (again, outside of Reddit)? Is this indeed an awesomely rare situation/board or are there hundreds if not thousands of boards out there like this and I simply have no idea about them?


https://www.slashfilm.com/avengers-endgame-paradoxes/
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Urban Ag
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In reply to TCTTS • 6:45p, 4/29/19
AG
Agreed. There are a lot of great perspectives here. I think it helps that there are a lot of folks with kids and as I have stated so many times before, kids are such a great barometer on movies. Kids wear their emotions and reactions on their sleeve. Education level is also a good thing. But there is also a ton of guys that post on this board in their 30's - 50's who grew up on so many of these franchises as kids, but in earlier formats (OT, comics, cartoons, etc) which provides a more learned perspective of the material in question.

My biggest thanks for this board is it has gotten me off the politics board for the most part. I've grown to hate the toxicity of American politics and the more I engage the more my blood pressure goes up and it's just bad for family life. Not that I am withdrawing from politics, but truth be known I'd rather talk about GOT, SW, or Avengers. And then talk to my boys about it/connect. As they get older it's harder and harder to connect unless we are talking about sports, hunting, or movies.
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Urban Ag
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7:07p, 4/29/19
AG
One of the things that really struck me about End Game was I just flat out didn't see the first act coming. I mean, 15 minutes in and Thanos is decapitated, the stones are destroyed, and back on Earth, Cap is running a support group.

Next, the second act was quest for the stones which turned out being a lot of fun. Didn't see that coming at all. The second act was a quest instead of the "lick your wounds/regroup/figure out how to win this thing".

Third act was the bad guys taking it to them instead of good guys taking it to them, which was awesome.

I just really love the creativity they put in to this. And I generally hate time travel, but they made it work.
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texasaggie04
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7:33p, 4/29/19
AG
https://theweek.com/articles/838173/11-ways-avengers-endgame-changes-marvel-cinematic-universe-forever

Saw this article earlier, underwater earthquake might have been an Easter egg for Namor. I know nothing about Namor though.
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PatAg
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In reply to Urban Ag • 8:52p, 4/29/19
AG
Urban Ag said:
Agreed. There are a lot of great perspectives here. I think it helps that there are a lot of folks with kids and as I have stated so many times before, kids are such a great barometer on movies. Kids wear their emotions and reactions on their sleeve. Education level is also a good thing. But there is also a ton of guys that post on this board in their 30's - 50's who grew up on so many of these franchises as kids, but in earlier formats (OT, comics, cartoons, etc) which provides a more learned perspective of the material in question.

My biggest thanks for this board is it has gotten me off the politics board for the most part. I've grown to hate the toxicity of American politics and the more I engage the more my blood pressure goes up and it's just bad for family life. Not that I am withdrawing from politics, but truth be known I'd rather talk about GOT, SW, or Avengers. And then talk to my boys about it/connect. As they get older it's harder and harder to connect unless we are talking about sports, hunting, or movies.
Not saying you do this, because if you do I havent noticed it...but when people bring their way of talking on that forum to this one, its not good.
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agenjake
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10:05p, 4/29/19
Here's my half-brained theory about Cap, the tesseract and the mind stone. If he goes to see the Ancient One first, she could do the apple core back to whole apple time thing to the stones to get them back into their original containers. Then he gives back the time stone and replaces the mind stone. The power stone could be returned to Morag easily enough, and the aether could be put back on Asgard easily enough (relatively). The tesseract would likely be the last thing he replaces, when he goes back to Peggy.

But what happens when he replaces the soul stone? A soul for the stone, right? So who is released? I assume that Gamora is released somehow since she was forcibly thrown off the cliff, unlike Black Widow.

And I would love to see the conversation between Cap and Red Skull. At that point they would both truly understand the power of the tesseract.
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wangus12
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In reply to texasaggie04 • 10:26p, 4/29/19
AG
texasaggie04 said:
https://theweek.com/articles/838173/11-ways-avengers-endgame-changes-marvel-cinematic-universe-forever

Saw this article earlier, underwater earthquake might have been an Easter egg for Namor. I know nothing about Namor though.
Basically he is kinda like Aquaman. King of Atlantis and stuff. More anti-hero than villain though
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Philo B 93
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10:44p, 4/29/19
I saw it with my kids and afterwards told them that they will probably tell their kids about seeing this movie. It's a big freakin' deal at their Jr High.

As for me... the movie was a little too big for me. 22 movies, 12 years, a three hour finale, Norse gods, omnipotent aliens, advanced technology, time travel, magic, Super Girl, a talking raccoon, girl power, Waconda, a Pegasus.... dude I grew up on Spider-Man comic books with 20 pages (counting the cover) on newspaper stock and a note from Stan Lee at the end.

I'll be glad to get back to the good old days (ie Iron Man 1) with a movie like Far from Home.

However, I do hope that this generation of grade schoolers now has their own "Star Wars". I hope that this is a movie that shapes the memories of their childhood. It may not have been my cup of tea, but I appreciate it for what it is. And yes, I was pretty entertained for three hours.

One change I would have made- use classic rock as the soundtrack like Guardians and Thor Ragnorak did. More badass.
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mazag08
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In reply to wangus12 • 11:36p, 4/29/19
AG
wangus12 said:
Also. That is America's ass.

And I'm kinda sad we didn't get to see Agent 13 in the film either. Her and Cap. just shared that one kiss and she is never on screen again.

I look forward to these adventures



New to the thread and reading through now. Have to reply to this..

I really hoped that the very end with Cap and Carter dancing.. they kiss.. and then he says "I'm sorry but I kissed your granddaughter in the future". She slaps him. Roll credits.
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toucan82
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12:03a, 4/30/19
Can confirm that it is still quite good after a second viewing
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AgLaw
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12:22a, 4/30/19
AG
Just got home. What a ride. I'm going to have catch up on this thread and see it again.

I would have loved it if Jon Favreau ended his scene with Tony's daughter by asking her if she wanted to hear a story about Iron Man.
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Quincey P. Morris
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1:08a, 4/30/19
AG
Not a really important part, but was the music Carter and Cap were dancing to the same music as the opening montage to Up?
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PooDoo
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In reply to C@LAg • 1:35a, 4/30/19
AG
C@LAg said:
PooDoo said:
Pretty sure he started with 2 pretty big stones.
did he really?

I mean, all of the "Children of Thanos" were adopted.....
Looks like he kept them in his chin.
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Fightin TX Aggie
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5:36a, 4/30/19
AG
Let's talk Thanos

This movie is all about character contrasts and foils. And also about characters who learn things about themselves. In Thanos' case, he is woefully self-deceived even until he turns to dust.

Thanos at the start of the movie is almost gentle. He barely resists his attackers. He destroyed the stones and in doing so, stripped himself of power. He has no weapon. He tells Nebula he may have been too harsh on her.

His arc from there is dark. The next time we see Thanos, he is literally bathed in blood from battle. He is carrying his sword. He ridicules Ronan for being obsessed but cannot see his own obsession.

When he arrives on earth he says the arrogant never suspect a thing, foreshadowing his own end. Gone is the Thanos who just wanted balance "as all things should be." It turns out, he never really wanted balance. What he wanted was god-like control.

He recounts to Cap his life of violence and bloodshed. He admits he will take pleasure in the destruction of earth. He abandons balance in favor of "shredding the universe to its last atom."

And watching him fight the Avengers, you can see why he is arrogant. He's obviously never lost. No one has ever halted his path of death and violence. Thanos dies with no words of self-insight. He last words are "I am inevitable." But he wasn't.

You can contrast Thanos' downward arc with Nebula's upward one. She suffers two big losses. First, her "dad" at the start of the movie and later herself. She goes from being quite a monster in GOTG 1 and 2 to someone who finds worth outside of her murderous father's madness. She escapes Thanos' insanity even as he dies in it, unaware.

***

Addendum: In Infinity War, the losses of the Maw and his other "children" really bothered Thanos. By the end of Endgame, he orders his ship to fire indiscriminately on his own army. All that matters to him is victory, not for a goal but for victory itself, so that his will might be done.
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TexasAggie_02
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In reply to mazag08 • 6:26a, 4/30/19
AG
mazag08 said:
wangus12 said:
Also. That is America's ass.

And I'm kinda sad we didn't get to see Agent 13 in the film either. Her and Cap. just shared that one kiss and she is never on screen again.

I look forward to these adventures



New to the thread and reading through now. Have to reply to this..

I really hoped that the very end with Cap and Carter dancing.. they kiss.. and then he says "I'm sorry but I kissed your granddaughter in the future". She slaps him. Roll credits.


Niece
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Malachi Constant
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In reply to Quincey P. Morris • 7:01a, 4/30/19
AG
Ranger #007 said:
Not a really important part, but was the music Carter and Cap were dancing to the same music as the opening montage to Up?

It was extremely close and Up is exactly what I thought about during that scene of their house.
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rhutton125
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In reply to agenjake • 7:18a, 4/30/19
AG
agenjake said:
But what happens when he replaces the soul stone? A soul for the stone, right? So who is released? I assume that Gamora is released somehow since she was forcibly thrown off the cliff, unlike Black Widow.


The writers have said there are no refunds, essentially. Natasha and 2018 Gamora stay dead.
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wangus12
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In reply to Fightin TX Aggie • 7:30a, 4/30/19
AG
That's some good observation. I really thought Nebula played an excellent role in the film. Almost a low key main character role because of how much it showed her arc.
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