I think they were just introducing that there are people in the universe who are going to get rich and play both sides of the coin. I don't see that as some great political statement; I see it as a reality of civilization.
*** SW: The Last Jedi - FULL SPOILERS BE IN HERE ***
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WestAustinAg said:
TLJ pushed several useless, pointless and irritating political narratives.
1) Po (men) are over-adventurous, dimwitted and, therefore, dangerous. Women need to run things for a while (even when wearing ball gowns as commanders). Girl power is resistance!
2) Conformity is important. Finn was a loner and his arc showed us that we need to all get on board and resist together. He was taught this by ship mechanic Rose. Resistance requires conformity!
3) People/aliens who have lots of money and like gamble on other alien races are bad, bad people/aliens. Gambling casinos are bad and full of the bourgeois. Trump owns gambling casinos...aha!
Girls rise up! Come together to overtake the patriarchy!! Trump is the object of our RESISTANCE!!!!
CJS4715 said:
I think they were just introducing that there are people in the universe who are going to get rich and play both sides of the coin. I don't see that as some great political statement; I see it as a reality of civilization.
Agree. That part didn't bother me at all...in fact that should have had much more of an impact and more screen time to build up towards instead of being on the tail end of the rushed storyline of Finn/Rose and that nonsense that resulted from it.
Yep, it's unfortunate. I feel like Rian Johnson planted lots of seeds either for his trilogy (seems impossible though - probably did not know that was possible when he wrote TLJ) or just generally for the SWU that will be explored in later materials. Disappointing to see them waste time in a saga film for this purpose.
Addressing your three points:WestAustinAg said:
TLJ pushed several useless, pointless and irritating political narratives.
1) Po (men) are over-adventurous, dimwitted and, therefore, dangerous. Women need to run things for a while (even when wearing ball gowns as commanders). Girl power is resistance!
2) Conformity is important. Finn was a loner and his arc showed us that we need to all get on board and resist together. He was taught this by ship mechanic Rose. Resistance requires conformity!
3) People/aliens who have lots of money and like gamble on other alien races are bad, bad people/aliens. Gambling casinos are bad and full of the bourgeois. Trump owns gambling casinos...aha!
Girls rise up! Come together to overtake the patriarchy!! Trump is the object of our RESISTANCE!!!!
1) #triggered - you're starting to sound like liberals who think having the white guy in charge is somehow a swipe at women and minorities. Overly sensitive. The amount of irony in this statement is too much.
2) That's an interesting way of looking at things. I'd be interested to hear you apply this to real-life revolutions or rebellions against tyranny. (Former Nazi escapes and eventually joins the Allies to fight in Europe - "Conformist!")
3) Main point I took from this is about war profiteering, setting up context for a new rebellion from the "little guys", and an element of animal abuse. Also worth noting that Rian delivered a finished script in December 2015 (well before Trump even won a single primary).
It takes a special kind of angry person to view this movie through the lens you laid out.
Disagree with 1 and 2.WestAustinAg said:
TLJ pushed several useless, pointless and irritating political narratives.
1) Po (men) are over-adventurous, dimwitted and, therefore, dangerous. Women need to run things for a while (even when wearing ball gowns as commanders). Girl power is resistance!
2) Conformity is important. Finn was a loner and his arc showed us that we need to all get on board and resist together. He was taught this by ship mechanic Rose. Resistance requires conformity!
3) People/aliens who have lots of money and like gamble on other alien races are bad, bad people/aliens. Gambling casinos are bad and full of the bourgeois. Trump owns gambling casinos...aha!
Girls rise up! Come together to overtake the patriarchy!! Trump is the object of our RESISTANCE!!!!
3 (or a variation of it) did kind of stick out and hurt the movie.
I wouldn't go nearly as far as WestAustinAg did (I mean, WOW dude!), but read the article that Redstone posted a few pages back (and yes I know he's a troll but the article he posted is legit).
[Url]
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/22/movies/star-wars-last-jedi-women-run-universe.html[/url]
See how the first thing that Kathleen Kennedy did was form a committee to oversee Star Wars storylines and characters, and the woman she put in charge purposely filled it with nothing but women, in order to "create meaningful female characters". Their overriding goal? " In addition to maintaining the continuity of the "Star Wars" universe, they aim to increase its diversity".
They have the ability to insist on certain characters appearing in Star Wars properties - an example held up in the article is mandating Ahsoka Tano appear in the Rebels cartoon because they wanted her female storyline being told.
And for TLJ? "While writing "The Last Jedi," the writer-director Rian Johnson moved to San Francisco, spending three months working closely with the story group to develop ideas for the film. "
I wouldn't go so far as to say the whole purpose of the movie was girl power. But I absolutely think that during the script writing process of this movie the focus wasn't simply on making a good story and compelling characters (which could be filled by actors of either gender or any race). I believe there was intentional focus on making sure there was "diversity" in the film. Did that harm the script any? Who knows. Maybe the Rose and Holdo characters wouldn't have been included at all and we would have seen Poe and Finn do something else. Maybe those parts would have been played by males, in which case they still would have been horrible characters anyway.
But the point is that the Star Wars movies aren't being written with a goal of having a good script in mind - there are other agendas imposing their way on them, to some degree.
[Url]
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/22/movies/star-wars-last-jedi-women-run-universe.html[/url]
See how the first thing that Kathleen Kennedy did was form a committee to oversee Star Wars storylines and characters, and the woman she put in charge purposely filled it with nothing but women, in order to "create meaningful female characters". Their overriding goal? " In addition to maintaining the continuity of the "Star Wars" universe, they aim to increase its diversity".
They have the ability to insist on certain characters appearing in Star Wars properties - an example held up in the article is mandating Ahsoka Tano appear in the Rebels cartoon because they wanted her female storyline being told.
And for TLJ? "While writing "The Last Jedi," the writer-director Rian Johnson moved to San Francisco, spending three months working closely with the story group to develop ideas for the film. "
I wouldn't go so far as to say the whole purpose of the movie was girl power. But I absolutely think that during the script writing process of this movie the focus wasn't simply on making a good story and compelling characters (which could be filled by actors of either gender or any race). I believe there was intentional focus on making sure there was "diversity" in the film. Did that harm the script any? Who knows. Maybe the Rose and Holdo characters wouldn't have been included at all and we would have seen Poe and Finn do something else. Maybe those parts would have been played by males, in which case they still would have been horrible characters anyway.
But the point is that the Star Wars movies aren't being written with a goal of having a good script in mind - there are other agendas imposing their way on them, to some degree.
Aren't Pablo Hidalgo and Leland Chee in the story group?
Ag Since 83 said:
Aren't Pablo Hidalgo and Leland Chee in the story group?
Yea, I thought so. Maybe it's the group that actually works for Kiri Hart is all women. I don't think Hidalgo reports to Hart.
The group gender dynamic has changed since it was formed, but not their purpose.
Diversity is a legitimate goal for an enterprise trying to sell tickets and toys. You can never sell too many toys, so throw in a female Asian in case any female Asian children needed their own toy. I don't think this franchise ever had an issue with lack of diversity, but whatever. Sell more toys.
Writing by committee might explain some of the issues fans have though. Too many cooks trying to throw in too many ideas. And as much as people bashed the trilogies for bad dialogue, there were some rough moments in TLJ. No problem with this brand new Purplehair Partydress character taking over. But then right away she says something like "When I served under Leia she always said..." When you served under Leia? You mean earlier today? You know she's still alive in sick bay, right? And everyone you're speaking to serves under Leia too, right?
Writing by committee might explain some of the issues fans have though. Too many cooks trying to throw in too many ideas. And as much as people bashed the trilogies for bad dialogue, there were some rough moments in TLJ. No problem with this brand new Purplehair Partydress character taking over. But then right away she says something like "When I served under Leia she always said..." When you served under Leia? You mean earlier today? You know she's still alive in sick bay, right? And everyone you're speaking to serves under Leia too, right?
I wish/hope they do a Finn and Poe love arc in Ep IX, if only to see how many people would swear off the series.
(Also, best chemistry in this trilogy thus far.)
(Also, best chemistry in this trilogy thus far.)
I think some of my points may have been misunderstood - I'm not trying to "stir the pot." I just want to have a discussion.
I apologize to staff and posters if anything I've written here has been a distraction.
Two brief points:
a). the Disney-led Star Wars has presented two female leads (Rey and Jyn), two male leads of color (Finn and Saw Gerrera), two Hispanic male leads (Poe and Cassian), three supporting characters of Asian descent (Rose, Baze, and Chirrut), and one supporting character of Pakistani origin (Bodhi).
All new villains (and I am sympathetic to the Empire, but they are presented as villains) - Krennic, Kylo, and Hux - are of a similar origin to Han Solo and Luke.
b). I think this cultural shift is significant, as do the new caretakers of the franchise. So I'll be curious to see what the writers do concerning representation in Solo: A Star Wars Story, especially if there might be an effort to incorporate gay, lesbian, or genderqueer characters.
I apologize to staff and posters if anything I've written here has been a distraction.
Two brief points:
a). the Disney-led Star Wars has presented two female leads (Rey and Jyn), two male leads of color (Finn and Saw Gerrera), two Hispanic male leads (Poe and Cassian), three supporting characters of Asian descent (Rose, Baze, and Chirrut), and one supporting character of Pakistani origin (Bodhi).
All new villains (and I am sympathetic to the Empire, but they are presented as villains) - Krennic, Kylo, and Hux - are of a similar origin to Han Solo and Luke.
b). I think this cultural shift is significant, as do the new caretakers of the franchise. So I'll be curious to see what the writers do concerning representation in Solo: A Star Wars Story, especially if there might be an effort to incorporate gay, lesbian, or genderqueer characters.
don't worry...nobody was gay a long time ago.....
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Given what you said about the faces of the Empire, it seems like time they load up on some transgenderqueer villains of color.Quote:
if there might be an effort to incorporate gay, lesbian, or genderqueer characters.
Obviously white males are power hungry and bad.Redstone said:
Two brief points:
a). the Disney-led Star Wars has presented two female leads (Rey and Jyn), two male leads of color (Finn and Saw Gerrera), two Hispanic male leads (Poe and Cassian), three supporting characters of Asian descent (Rose, Baze, and Chirrut), and one supporting character of Pakistani origin (Bodhi).
All new villains (and I am sympathetic to the Empire, but they are presented as villains) - Krennic, Kylo, and Hux - are of a similar origin to Han Solo and Luke.
b). I think this cultural shift is significant, as do the new caretakers of the franchise. So I'll be curious to see what the writers do concerning representation in Solo: A Star Wars Story, especially if there might be an effort to incorporate gay, lesbian, or genderqueer characters.
And also probably 60-70% of Star Wars consumers worldwide
Redstone said:
I think some of my points may have been misunderstood - I'm not trying to "stir the pot." I just want to have a discussion.
I apologize to staff and posters if anything I've written here has been a distraction.
Two brief points:
a). the Disney-led Star Wars has presented two female leads (Rey and Jyn), two male leads of color (Finn and Saw Gerrera), two Hispanic male leads (Poe and Cassian), three supporting characters of Asian descent (Rose, Baze, and Chirrut), and one supporting character of Pakistani origin (Bodhi).
All new villains (and I am sympathetic to the Empire, but they are presented as villains) - Krennic, Kylo, and Hux - are of a similar origin to Han Solo and Luke.
b). I think this cultural shift is significant, as do the new caretakers of the franchise. So I'll be curious to see what the writers do concerning representation in Solo: A Star Wars Story, especially if there might be an effort to incorporate gay, lesbian, or genderqueer characters.
Redstone always makes my point better than I can. Thanks Redstone.
And if you think art like this needs to put a heavy emphasis on building diversity you are insanely wrong. You build good art by focusing on the art. Not on penetrating the China market, the girl power market and the radical lib market with insane Resistance storylines that pander to the left. This is what happened to the gaming industry. It's a great way to lose exactly half an audience.
Brian Earl Spilner said:
Nothing is sadder to me than people who get their jimmies rustled by "lib" agendas in film.
Why do you care?
Their plot was a weak point in the film, I agree, but calling it out as a liberal thing is just so dumb. You guys need to learn to separate entertainment from your own personal political views.
Because it makes (parts of) the movies predictable...like matches with John Cena in his prime.
Can you think of a time where a woman, including and especially Rey, individually fails or makes a bad decision?
Luke's character failed at times, he was whiny and had self doubt , he had to be rescued by others, and he loses to Darth Vader in ESB.
From the beginning Rey is kicking ass, more than holding her own against Jedi trained Kylo Ren in TFA.
There is never any doubt that she is going to turn evil. She has no flaws. Even when Kylo and her fight against the Red Stormtroopers she rescues him.
Leia is wise and makes no mistakes. And kind of boring because of it.
So in the end, when there is conflict between Holdo and Poe. I know Holdo is going to be right and heroic.
Maybe it has always been like that in the whole series, or maybe I'm forgetting stuff, I just think part of what makes the characters like Luke, Han or even Lando wasn't that they won all the time, but they had weaknesses and failings. I'm not sure if that is an agenda, bias, our just not great writing.
except there was that time that Leia was a sex slave to JtH
Yes. In the old writing we got that.
Now we can celebrate seeing Kylo Ren shirtless.
Now we can celebrate seeing Kylo Ren shirtless.
Brian Earl Spilner said:
Nothing is sadder to me than people who get their jimmies rustled by "lib" agendas in film.
Why do you care?
Their plot was a weak point in the film, I agree, but calling it out as a liberal thing is just so dumb. You guys need to learn to separate entertainment from your own personal political views.
All this lib pc sjw anti America anti white anti male bull**** is a constant mosquito whine I have to drown out in real life. I generally ignore TV and media, and no one in my personal or professional life, of any race or gender, is that pathetic. So it's no big deal, just a constant minor annoyance.
When I go see a Star Wars movie, I don't expect to have it pushed on me during my entertainment time.
Old Star Wars is great. Good women leaders. Alien leaders. Other races leaders. Whatever. No problem. Just don't push a load of pc **** on me that's so in your face it can't be ignored.
Iowaggie said:
Yes. In the old writing we got that.
Now we can celebrate seeing Kylo Ren shirtless.
I managed to "ignore it" just fine. Maybe you just need to stop being triggered.
Lol the 'triggered' attempt st an insult is just more of the same smarmy crap.
Founding fathers were triggered
Slaves were triggered
German Jews were triggered
Russian middle class religious people were triggered
The rebels in Star Wars are triggered.
What matters is they were right in the same way I am right in my response now.
Founding fathers were triggered
Slaves were triggered
German Jews were triggered
Russian middle class religious people were triggered
The rebels in Star Wars are triggered.
What matters is they were right in the same way I am right in my response now.
Or to put it another way, if tlj' message was 'only white rich men are worthy, and poor people are poor because they are stupid and deserve it', would that be an enjoyable movie or a appropriate intrusion on your entertainment? If your answer is no then your position is both wrong and hypocritical.
cbr said:
Or to put it another way, if tlj' message was 'only white rich men are worthy, and poor people are poor because they are stupid and deserve it', would that be an enjoyable movie or a appropriate intrusion on your entertainment? If your answer is no then your position is both wrong and hypocritical.
It's a real reach to say that was the message from TLJ.....you have to have a predisposed agenda of your own to look for that and see it. (and I'm an active R/Con on pol who sees that agenda in MSM and lots of talk shows, etc. I am not blind to it).
If you are talking about the rich in the casino....hell every walk of life was seen there plenty of aliens too. how you could take that as rich white men i have no idea...only the code breaker they sought was white that i recall and he was a bit part.
and what poor people are stupid and deserved it???...hell the entire resistance is pretty much assumed to be underdogs and many from low beginnings...yet there are plenty of white people among them.
just because more of the new characters are multicultural does not mean it's a blatant push of some SJW agenda....the reality is if you really think about it, the OT was extremely WHITE and this is probably just more realistic and balanced. Why would anyone have a problem with that. And if you have a primarily white cast as the basis and just want it to be more diverse (which is realistic) then the newer characters are going to be other ethnicities primarily. Other than Kylo who is the kid of 2 white people - the other 2 primary new white characters are Hux and Rey so one good one bad.
I have many problems with the movie - hate the character of Rose for example but not because of her ethnicity or some perceived agenda.
Man, I wasn't aware that Chancellor Kennedy ordered her guards to tear you from your family, put you in a cattlecar, and send you off to the local theater where they promptly tore the gold fillings and crowns out of your teeth, while forcing you to print the film that would be used against those trying to secure your freedom. Sorry you had to go through that, and so glad you're writing about it so that future generations never forget.cbr said:
German Jews were triggered
I'm not all caught up in the SJW stuff, but I do think it's pretty obvious it is a high priority for Disney to interject into this film. You can see it in decisions they made both with the film and external to the film. Did it ruin the film for me? No. But I do think it greased the skids to some of the bigger mistakes they made with this film that kept it from being great.
Brian Earl Spilner said:
I managed to "ignore it" just fine. Maybe you just need to stop being triggered.
Or you care enough to be triggered.
Iowaggie said:
Yes. In the old writing we got that.
Now we can celebrate seeing Kylo Ren shirtless.
From a certain point of view, sure.
From my point of view, your reaction to this so-called liberal agenda being pushed on you is both ridiculous and sad.
You have every right to hate the movie, though, so have at it. I don't know how you'll make it through another year attending movies though. You may want to give them up altogether, considering all the female-led movies we got last year.
From my point of view, your reaction to this so-called liberal agenda being pushed on you is both ridiculous and sad.
You have every right to hate the movie, though, so have at it. I don't know how you'll make it through another year attending movies though. You may want to give them up altogether, considering all the female-led movies we got last year.
Gigem314 said:Iowaggie said:
Yes. In the old writing we got that.
Now we can celebrate seeing Kylo Ren shirtless.
Holy crap, I bet Johnson has no clue
You must have missed my prior posts... the effort to push sjw bull**** was intrusive, but the RESULT was actually a mockery of that agenda. All the sj heroes in the movies absolutely sucked and failed, leaving the white guy in charge, LOL.
Thus, this was only a minor annoyance in an otherwise bad movie. I just harped on your post because you were belittling other people for making the same point. They are right, IMO so I jumped in.
My point is they shouldnt be peddling political agendas in movies to this extent.
Thus, this was only a minor annoyance in an otherwise bad movie. I just harped on your post because you were belittling other people for making the same point. They are right, IMO so I jumped in.
My point is they shouldnt be peddling political agendas in movies to this extent.
Thoughts?
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