*** SW: The Last Jedi - FULL SPOILERS BE IN HERE ***
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Last: 7 mo ago by Definitely Not A Cop
Is there a Lego version?SeattleAgJr said:
The consistently awkward dialogue from every character in the prequels brought down all of them. This has some prequelish moments, but not that terrible.
I wish they had not CGI'd Snoke. Make him up heavily, give him the gnarly scars, but have an actual person play the part. It reminded me a bit of I Am Legend where CGI zombies just sucked. It just loses something. Scarred up Palpatine was scary and intimidating in ROTJ. This computer thing walking near his throne was awkward
I wish they had not CGI'd Snoke. Make him up heavily, give him the gnarly scars, but have an actual person play the part. It reminded me a bit of I Am Legend where CGI zombies just sucked. It just loses something. Scarred up Palpatine was scary and intimidating in ROTJ. This computer thing walking near his throne was awkward
Its not that it's "cool" to bash this movie....it's that the movie is simply mediocre at best, and because it's an entry in the most beloved movie franchise of all time people are disappointed.
FL_Ag1998 said:
Its not that it's "cool" to bash this movie....it's that the movie is simply mediocre at best, and because it's an entry in the most beloved movie franchise of all time people are disappointed.
It's mediocre at best to some and a great movie to others. There is no majority view on this movie
Nah. It's great at worst. Certainly better than The Force Awakens and easily better than all the prequels. Right up there with the original trilogy. Go watch Kill Bill if you want the same formulaic crap.FL_Ag1998 said:
Its not that it's "cool" to bash this movie....it's that the movie is simply mediocre at best, and because it's an entry in the most beloved movie franchise of all time people are disappointed.
aTmAg said:Nah. It's great at worst. Certainly better than The Force Awakens and easily better than all the prequels. Right up there with the original trilogy. Go watch Kill Bill if you want the same formulaic crap.FL_Ag1998 said:
Its not that it's "cool" to bash this movie....it's that the movie is simply mediocre at best, and because it's an entry in the most beloved movie franchise of all time people are disappointed.
This guy.
I'll back myself up:
Episode 1: Jar jar, trade disputes, midochlorians, little kid accidentally defeats an entire army by himself, etc.... despite pod race and decent fight scene at the end movie was total crap. Surely everybody agrees.
Episode 2: Terrible dialog, stupid love story, boring plot. At least Natile Portman looked good. Still crap.
Episode 3: More terrible dialog, wooden acting. The turn of Anakin unconvincing and stupid. Last 5 minutes were good merely because of the nastalgia factor (except the "noooooo"). Best of the trilogy, but still bad.
Rogue one: Damn good. The most "adult" of them all until possibly The Last Jedi. Only one where basically every good guy dies. Incredible effects. Lots of sacrifice, inspiring story, etc.
Episode 4: Special effects and production value doesn't hold up particularly well. Still the dialog was good (e.g. "I don't know, I can imagine quite a bit"). Introduced probably the greatest villian of all time. The story was good, was inspiring and obviously nostalgic for us old timers. (My kids think it was boring and "meh"). The edited re-releases make it worse.
Episode 5: Best of them all. Not much needs to be said here. Old timers and kids alike recognize it's greatness.
Episode 6: Despite the Ewoks helping to defeat the Empire, the movie was still damn good and has many moments that are part of cinematic history. The escape from the reactor still probably the most awe inspiring scene I have ever seen in a theater. I still remember which theater I saw this in and where in the theater I was sitting.
Episode 7: Campy and a complete ripoff of Episode 4. Harrison Ford's campy return tarnishes the Han Solo of old. He seems to be more of a ripoff of Mal Reynolds (from Firefly) than Han Solo from Empire. Rathtars were stupid, Ren is a lackluster villian, Rey was ridiculously powerful out of the blue, planet splitting in half just at the perfect time to stop a fight, etc. Special effects were great, but story and acting (except Ridley) was meh.
Episode 8: Completely unpredictable departure of the now formulaic past. Plot was clever and characters used their minds to get out of problems rather than pure grit. Nothing happens like it seems and characters are more complex. I came away from episode 7 thinking Ren was a terrible villian to now thinking he is great. He's now a more complex character after two movies than most other legacy characters were after 6.
I'm not trolling. This was a good movie. One could say that it wasn't as good as the original trilogy... that would be a reasonable argument. But anybody who tries to put it among the prequels deserves to be scorned, laughed at, and ignored. You guys need to put the crack pipe down.
Episode 1: Jar jar, trade disputes, midochlorians, little kid accidentally defeats an entire army by himself, etc.... despite pod race and decent fight scene at the end movie was total crap. Surely everybody agrees.
Episode 2: Terrible dialog, stupid love story, boring plot. At least Natile Portman looked good. Still crap.
Episode 3: More terrible dialog, wooden acting. The turn of Anakin unconvincing and stupid. Last 5 minutes were good merely because of the nastalgia factor (except the "noooooo"). Best of the trilogy, but still bad.
Rogue one: Damn good. The most "adult" of them all until possibly The Last Jedi. Only one where basically every good guy dies. Incredible effects. Lots of sacrifice, inspiring story, etc.
Episode 4: Special effects and production value doesn't hold up particularly well. Still the dialog was good (e.g. "I don't know, I can imagine quite a bit"). Introduced probably the greatest villian of all time. The story was good, was inspiring and obviously nostalgic for us old timers. (My kids think it was boring and "meh"). The edited re-releases make it worse.
Episode 5: Best of them all. Not much needs to be said here. Old timers and kids alike recognize it's greatness.
Episode 6: Despite the Ewoks helping to defeat the Empire, the movie was still damn good and has many moments that are part of cinematic history. The escape from the reactor still probably the most awe inspiring scene I have ever seen in a theater. I still remember which theater I saw this in and where in the theater I was sitting.
Episode 7: Campy and a complete ripoff of Episode 4. Harrison Ford's campy return tarnishes the Han Solo of old. He seems to be more of a ripoff of Mal Reynolds (from Firefly) than Han Solo from Empire. Rathtars were stupid, Ren is a lackluster villian, Rey was ridiculously powerful out of the blue, planet splitting in half just at the perfect time to stop a fight, etc. Special effects were great, but story and acting (except Ridley) was meh.
Episode 8: Completely unpredictable departure of the now formulaic past. Plot was clever and characters used their minds to get out of problems rather than pure grit. Nothing happens like it seems and characters are more complex. I came away from episode 7 thinking Ren was a terrible villian to now thinking he is great. He's now a more complex character after two movies than most other legacy characters were after 6.
I'm not trolling. This was a good movie. One could say that it wasn't as good as the original trilogy... that would be a reasonable argument. But anybody who tries to put it among the prequels deserves to be scorned, laughed at, and ignored. You guys need to put the crack pipe down.
Quote:
Episode 8: Completely unpredictable departure of the now formulaic past. Plot was clever and characters used their minds to get out of problems rather than pure grit. Nothing happens like it seems and characters are more complex. I came away from episode 7 thinking Ren was a terrible villian to now thinking he is great. He's now a more complex character after two movies than most other legacy characters were after 6.
You didn't think Kylo turning on Snoke was predictable? Or that him trying to get Rey to join him was predictable? Or that the last bomber would manage to drop all the bombs despite the pilot lying there desperately kicking the ladder to drop the remote, and catching it as it falls past was cliche? Or that something would happen to save Finn and Rose from execution mere seconds before they lose heads? That is probably as cliche as it gets.
Here's the formula this movie followed.
1. Overwhelming force falls prey to cheeky escape plan
2. Heroes think they are in the clear and get surprised, creating a race against clock scenario
3. Heroes come up with plan to save day, and get ever so close to achieving before everything turns wrong
4. Bad guys are moments from ending it all before deus ex machina helps heroes get away
5. Final minutes of the movie even repeat the whole cycle. We're trapped, let's blow up this thing, we can't make it in time, I'll sacrifice myself, no you're saved at the last minute bc I love you, force badass is giving us time to get away with the most awesome force use evvaarr!
I really, really liked this movie. A lot. If others didn't like it, fine. But kindly shut it if you're going to go around acting like it's an indisputably terrible movie. Fact is, it has a massive audience (it'll make more than Empire and Rogue One, even adjusted for inflation) and its one of the more critically acclaimed movies in the franchise. Those are facts.
VanZandt92
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How long do you want to ignore this user?
I don't recall ever saying it was indisputably terrible.
I thought it was rote formulaic. There really wasn't an original moment.
VanZandt92 said:
I thought it was rote formulaic. There really wasn't an original moment.
I truly can't understand how anyone could call this movie formulaic. I think it is is the most unpredictable and unformulaic movie in the franchise.
It was just total nonsense plot. All the characters were idiotic losers. Most had really bad attitudes and bull**** social crap. They all sucked. That is a total travesty. Then the garbage attempts at humor? Pointless yoda? Loser Luke? Seriously? Other than the rip off of having tie fighters, lightsabers etc this movie wouldn't have made a dime.
I actually liked Yoda. Was more like Empire Yoda than prequel Yoda.
cbr- don't forget the gopher-birds
Of course not.. They freaking forshadowed it from the beginning. Congratulations on figuring that out. The twist wasn't that he was going to turn on Snoke, it was that he was going to replace Snoke and then try to kill everybody including his mother afterwards.Quote:
You didn't think Kylo turning on Snoke was predictable?
Again he was doing that through their ESP sessions throughout the movie. Of course it was no surprise that he'd try again after she arrived. Again... Congrats on that prediction.Quote:
Or that him trying to get Rey to join him was predictable?
The point of that was to show that all of that was a waste. That even that victory was too costly and not worth it. That point wouldn't have been driven home if they all just got wasted.Quote:
Or that the last bomber would manage to drop all the bombs despite the pilot lying there desperately kicking the ladder to drop the remote, and catching it as it falls past was cliche?
Again, I already said I wished they died. Clearly Disney greenlights who dies and lives since they famously did so for R1. I think the writers played it well given the constraints they under. Finn is the clear choice to board that ship since he was a deserter. Despite my near certainty that he was immune from death in this trilogy, they had me thinking he might actually die twice in this movie. That's good writing, not bad.Quote:
Or that something would happen to save Finn and Rose from execution mere seconds before they lose heads? That is probably as cliche as it gets.
Uuuh.. Both "cheeky" plans failed and they get wiped except for a few dozen people. That's the only time that has ever happened in SW history. Yeah... So formulaic.Quote:
Here's the formula this movie followed.
1. Overwhelming force falls prey to cheeky escape plan
2. Heroes think they are in the clear and get surprised, creating a race against clock scenario
3. Heroes come up with plan to save day, and get ever so close to achieving before everything turns wrong
4. Bad guys are moments from ending it all before deus ex machina helps heroes get away
5. Final minutes of the movie even repeat the whole cycle. We're trapped, let's blow up this thing, we can't make it in time, I'll sacrifice myself, no you're saved at the last minute bc I love you, force badass is giving us time to get away with the most awesome force use evvaarr!
Even most of the ardent haters on this thread admit that the light speed destruction of that ship was awesome. You actually trying to claim that was lame? Who can take you seriously after that statement?
And I stated the "love" line was lame. That's the difference between you and me. I have an open mind about the movie. You, on the other hand, will clearly think this movie is lame no matter what happened on screen.
Sorry this wasn't Kill Bill part 3. I know that must disappoint you. Lucky there are plenty of Van Damme movies to intellectually stimulate you. Have at it.
This statement is ridiculous. You must be trolling.VanZandt92 said:
I thought it was rote formulaic. There really wasn't an original moment.
Otherwise, I assume you think The Force Awakens is the worst movie of the entire franchise since it was practically a duplicate of the original movie?
I'm just confused on why you keep referencing Kill Bill
LOL at people so butthurt over criticism of the movie that they'll hurl insults at other ags
cbr said:
It was just total nonsense plot. All the characters were idiotic losers. Most had really bad attitudes and bull**** social crap. They all sucked. That is a total travesty. Then the garbage attempts at humor? Pointless yoda? Loser Luke? Seriously? Other than the rip off of having tie fighters, lightsabers etc this movie wouldn't have made a dime.
Amazing. Every word of what you just said was wrong.
Empire>A New Hope>Return of the Jedi>Force Awakens>Rogue 1>Last Jedi>Prequels
I may netflix the rest of the upcoming "new" ones.
Now, Avengers Infinity looks badass.
I may netflix the rest of the upcoming "new" ones.
Now, Avengers Infinity looks badass.
BTW, the new bad guy has now been beaten by an untrained girl twice. What exactly have we seen Kylo Ren do that should make us (the audience) fear him?
Don't get me wrong, I think Adam Driver is one of the best parts of the movie (same with TFA). But this movie was bad. Nonsesnical and pointless plots.
I mean, sure, it'd be "differenr" and "non-formulaic" for Batman to be able to fy and Robin to be a better crime fighter. Doesn't mean it makes for a good story.
Don't get me wrong, I think Adam Driver is one of the best parts of the movie (same with TFA). But this movie was bad. Nonsesnical and pointless plots.
I mean, sure, it'd be "differenr" and "non-formulaic" for Batman to be able to fy and Robin to be a better crime fighter. Doesn't mean it makes for a good story.
He had been shot in the first one, and was not trying to kill her. He wanted to subdue her.
In the second, the ship crashed. It's not really hard to explain.
In the second, the ship crashed. It's not really hard to explain.
DannyDuberstein said:
LOL at people so butthurt over criticism of the movie that they'll hurl insults at other ags
LOL at people being so butthurt at the movie that they'll hurl insults at people who liked it.
I get that. But at least show us something...give us the infamous knights of ren in a flashback. Something for us to believe he is a force to be reckoned with. At least in TFA, he was just the student to Snoke. So far, we've been given nothing and he is now the main antagonist.
And given Rey's unexplainable improvement, it would appear it won't be much of a contest when they inevitably clash again.
When Luke fought Vader, we knew Vader was a threat. Even in ROTJ, Vader was still a force to be reckoned with againsy Luke; the point of the battle was to turn Luke, not to destroy him, so we have some reason for Vader not whooping his ass again.
Even anakin in the prequels; if we didnt already know the outcome, you'd have to think its 50/50 going into the battle on Mustafar.
Right now, I don't see how you could perceive a battle between Kylon and Rey as anything better than 20/80 in favor of Rey.
Also, forget the emipre, who's backing the first order and where are they getting all these ships and personell? In TFA, we were told they were a fringe remmnant of the old empire. Now, they can lose their whole base and army, but are back to near full strength in less than days. I mean, TLJ takes place immediately following TFA.
Maybe the galaxy should go evil. There seems to be an overabundant supply of people willing to sign up and join them at the drop of a hat.
The TLJ should have been about both sides rebuilding. But all we got is a crappy and pointless story about arms dealers.
Yes, lots was unexpected. That doesn't make it good storytelling.
And given Rey's unexplainable improvement, it would appear it won't be much of a contest when they inevitably clash again.
When Luke fought Vader, we knew Vader was a threat. Even in ROTJ, Vader was still a force to be reckoned with againsy Luke; the point of the battle was to turn Luke, not to destroy him, so we have some reason for Vader not whooping his ass again.
Even anakin in the prequels; if we didnt already know the outcome, you'd have to think its 50/50 going into the battle on Mustafar.
Right now, I don't see how you could perceive a battle between Kylon and Rey as anything better than 20/80 in favor of Rey.
Also, forget the emipre, who's backing the first order and where are they getting all these ships and personell? In TFA, we were told they were a fringe remmnant of the old empire. Now, they can lose their whole base and army, but are back to near full strength in less than days. I mean, TLJ takes place immediately following TFA.
Maybe the galaxy should go evil. There seems to be an overabundant supply of people willing to sign up and join them at the drop of a hat.
The TLJ should have been about both sides rebuilding. But all we got is a crappy and pointless story about arms dealers.
Yes, lots was unexpected. That doesn't make it good storytelling.
I've criticized this movie like others, but I'm not going to say it's as bad as the prequels. It sits alone in between the prequels and the rest of them.
Having said that, i now rank these movies as either above or below a "watch again" line. This movie and the prequels are below the line. I have no desire to see this again or own it. To me, its a highway rest step on the way to the final destination. I wanted to see TFA again and own it. Recognizing it's a total ripoff of ANH I at least wanted to see it a second time to judge my first impression. This one....don't care to.
Rogue 1 is the best of the new SW movies and it's not even close.
Having said that, i now rank these movies as either above or below a "watch again" line. This movie and the prequels are below the line. I have no desire to see this again or own it. To me, its a highway rest step on the way to the final destination. I wanted to see TFA again and own it. Recognizing it's a total ripoff of ANH I at least wanted to see it a second time to judge my first impression. This one....don't care to.
Rogue 1 is the best of the new SW movies and it's not even close.
Because that's where this franchise was going before this last movie came out (ignoring Rogue one for a moment). To outdo itself in the previous movie they have to make the Jedi/Sith even more amazing in the next. One thing that made the original trilogy so great was that Luke was the perpetual underdog. He was weak in 2 movies and only beat Vader in the 3rd because he was momentarily inspired by hate. Vader/Palpatine were powerful, but not ridiculously powerful.Sex Panther said:
I'm just confused on why you keep referencing Kill Bill
Then the prequels had Yoda doing triple flips in battle, 100 of Jedi duking it out, individual Jedi getting shot at by 1000 blasters and deflecting them like the 70's Wonder Woman show, etc. In the force awakens they had Ren stop a blaster shot in mid-air. Where the hell was that ability in the previous 6 movies? Wouldn't have that come in quite handy before? Hell I saw a youtube clip on of a Star Wars cartoon that showed Mace Windu taking on an entire army by himself. That is the sort of thing that was going to ruin the franchise.
This movie didn't go that route. Instead it had a bunch of characters with their own motivations acting in their best interest (you know.. sorta like real life). Yeah you had typical good sword play (but that was inherited from the past). But the movie would have been TERRIBLE if they had Rey do a Jedi training montage with Luke and then go defeat Ren karate kid style. Thankfully they moved the franchise in a intelligent direction.
We got a crapload more than "arms dealers". If that's all you remember about the movie, then no wonder you came away disappointed. Go watch it again, there was a lot more going on.jamaggie06 said:
I get that. But at least show us something...give us the infamous knights of ren in a flashback. Something for us to believe he is a force to be reckoned with. At least in TFA, he was just the student to Snoke. So far, we've been given nothing and he is now the main antagonist.
And given Rey's unexplainable improvement, it would appear it won't be much of a contest when they inevitably clash again.
When Luke fought Vader, we knew Vader was a threat. Even in ROTJ, Vader was still a force to be reckoned with againsy Luke; the point of the battle was to turn Luke, not to destroy him, so we have some reason for Vader not whooping his ass again.
Even anakin in the prequels; if we didnt already know the outcome, you'd have to think its 50/50 going into the battle on Mustafar.
Right now, I don't see how you could perceive a battle between Kylon and Rey as anything better than 20/80 in favor of Rey.
Also, forget the emipre, who's backing the first order and where are they getting all these ships and personell? In TFA, we were told they were a fringe remmnant of the old empire. Now, they can lose their whole base and army, but are back to near full strength in less than days. I mean, TLJ takes place immediately following TFA.
Maybe the galaxy should go evil. There seems to be an overabundant supply of people willing to sign up and join them at the drop of a hat.
The TLJ should have been about both sides rebuilding. But all we got is a crappy and pointless story about arms dealers.
Yes, lots was unexpected. That doesn't make it good storytelling.
I thought he was lame in TFA. I would agreed with you 100% prior to seeing this movie. Now I see where they are going with him (or maybe the writer(s) of TLJ improved it.. not sure). He is an unhinged wannabe who aspires to be something that he will never be. It's sorta like the Commodus trying to fill the shoes of his father Marcus Aurelius (from Roman Empire.. not just the movie). His ambition, ruthlessness, and lack of sympathy for anybody is what made him fearful. Not his personal fighting skills.jamaggie06 said:
BTW, the new bad guy has now been beaten by an untrained girl twice. What exactly have we seen Kylo Ren do that should make us (the audience) fear him?
Don't get me wrong, I think Adam Driver is one of the best parts of the movie (same with TFA). But this movie was bad. Nonsesnical and pointless plots.
I mean, sure, it'd be "differenr" and "non-formulaic" for Batman to be able to fy and Robin to be a better crime fighter. Doesn't mean it makes for a good story.
Most fearful guys in history couldn't fight their way out of a paper bag. There really is no such thing as "bosses" in video games. Real life and real characters are more complex than that. Hopefully future movies keep going in that direction.
The movie is missing at least one critical element key to good storytelling, despite doing so much so well: SE Asian representation. I would possibly recommend Kal Penn, but his stage name is highly Anglicized (staying with Modi would have been quite a bit more authentic). Still, lots of non-problematic solutions available there.
It would also have been better had Finn been given a more heroic storyline, but I think there's still time, and Johnson deserves at least one more opportunity. A better script doctor could have patched things up this time, though.
It would also have been better had Finn been given a more heroic storyline, but I think there's still time, and Johnson deserves at least one more opportunity. A better script doctor could have patched things up this time, though.
I'm not a nerd Star Wars fan either. Just the movies, a little Clone Wars and Rebels, and a lot of TIE Fighter. Some good, but mostly just a mess of a script from a director who admits he made up characters to patch script problems. Meh. You don't have to be a nerd to be dissatisfied.
I totally disagree. If Dirty Harry had shot a nun in the first ten minutes and gone off to be a drunk hobo for the rest of his life it might have been 'unpredictable and intelligent' but it would have been a ****ty movie like this one. None of the characters are acting in anyone's self interest. They are just doing stupid, irrational **** - and **** that is out of character as well as full of assinine current social assumptions. .
My in-laws thought this was hands down the best star wars movie and were blown away that I thought it was in the bottom 3 of all 9 movies (counting Rogue One). They were more blown away that I had Rogue One in the top 3-4.
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