LOL. Luke was not stronger than Yoda or Obi Wan.
*** SW: The Last Jedi - FULL SPOILERS BE IN HERE ***
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Last: 7 mo ago by Definitely Not A Cop
Philip J Fry said:
Like most things JJ Abrams, it's a serial story without a plan. They make the **** up as they go and it's telling.
The mess of episode VIII was not brought to you by JJ Abrams.
Cromagnum said:
LOL. Luke was not stronger than Yoda or Obi Wan.
Interesting, because it has been said multiple times over by Lucas and others that Luke's strength is what anakin's Could have been had he not gotten all of his limbs chopped off and burned to a husk. Anakin was on path to be stronger than Yoda.
Not a big fan of Star Wars, but took my kids to see it last night. My main observation is that Rey looked hotter in this one than the previous movie.
Don't like the Finn character. The Rose character was dumb. Seems like they wanted to work an Asian in there to make sure they included everyone..
Space glider Leia was not good. At all.
I still don't think Rey "came from nothing". More to the story here that will be revealed eventually.
Don't like the Finn character. The Rose character was dumb. Seems like they wanted to work an Asian in there to make sure they included everyone..
Space glider Leia was not good. At all.
I still don't think Rey "came from nothing". More to the story here that will be revealed eventually.
Schrute said:
Not a big fan of Star Wars, but took my kids to see it last night. My main observation is that Rey looked hotter in this one than the previous movie.
Don't like the Finn character. The Rose character was dumb. Seems like they wanted to work an Asian in there to make sure they included everyone..
Space glider Leia was not good. At all.
I still don't think Rey "came from nothing". More to the story here that will be revealed eventually.
Space glider Leia was bad. People in my theater actually chuckled during it.
After seeing this, I understand why it's sitting at the bottom of fan rankings for Star Wars films. It's quite simply a terribly written, overlong film. It introduced useless characters, had a useless side plot, and had a number of endings that would've made Peter Jackson proud.
Saw it over the weekend ... half the plot seemed ripped from Syfy's Battlestar Galactica series. Had some good points, fun moments, good laughs ... but a lot of WTF moments too. But my son loved it and that's what counts. And also my daughters reaction to the Porgs, esp Chewies BBQ scene, lol.
Cross posted on the other thread:
This movie definitely is better on second viewing. I realized that I missed a lot on the first viewing that I caught onto the second time around.
What I took away from the second time around that changed my perception for the better:
- Yoda's chat with Luke really lays out the whole theme of the movie (and maybe this trilogy): the new generation has to learn from their failures...masters can't teach them everything. Paraphrased: what the master teaches, coupled with what they learn from failure, makes the student better than the master eventually.
- I think we're getting into a new type of Jedi with Rey based on Yoda and Luke's dialogue. Yoda said that nothing in the Jedi texts would reveal to Rey anything that wasn't already inside of her. I took this as an explanation of how she's such a powerful force user with minimal training. That comment coupled with Luke's speech to Rey about the nature of the force allowed for a new interpretation of force users not having to fit in a box. I ultimately don't mind that minor alteration from the world-building we had through the original trilogy and prequels.
- The trip to the casino served more of a purpose than I originally thought - Finn was about to serve in his own interests (only loyalty was to Rey) before he was stunned; the casino scene and subsequent talk with del Toro's character gave him a greater sense of purpose than he had before. He saw why the resistance mattered and he solidified his belief that he should choose a side (unlike del Toro's character)
- Kylo Ren came into his own in the dark side - he was manipulating Rey the whole time and really seduced her to potentially turn. She bought into his feint right up to the point that he was willing to let the resistance be obliterated after Snoke was killed. I think they have the ability to make him surpass Darth Vader as the ultimate Star Wars bad guy in the third act if they can show he has no redemption/conflict in him in the third act and is pure dark side evil (what Luke saw in him...and why he knew it wouldn't end how Rey thought). His character improved the most since TFA and Driver really nailed it.
- Luke was served better than I originally thought, too. Yes, it would have been spectacular to see him obliterate the First Order "armada" there, but I think that wouldn't have served much more of a purpose than spectacle...he really demonstrated immense power in force projecting himself to Leia and Kylo and that sequence pushed the story forward. Kylo is solidified as evil and the resistance lives on. I also have little doubt he's going to play an important role in the next movie. Again, his conversation with Yoda is key...and I think captures the whole point of this trilogy.
- I really didn't appreciate how fantastic the visuals and soundtrack were the first go around. Both were really phenomenal.
- It wasn't as humorous as I remembered...meaning I think the humor was timed well and added levity in the right doses, not overkill.
What didn't get any better:
- Phasma the throwaway character...obviously meant to sell toys and be some enduring (but unnecessary) foil to Finn. Only redeeming quality to Phasma showing up again is that her sequence set up BB-8 kicking ass with the AT-ST.
- Maz' "cameo"...I saw on this board that moment being likened to the queue of a rollercoaster that sets the scene for the ride - SPOT ON.
- Force user Leia. So much convenience in the moment to keep her alive...so why couldn't she lift the rocks to get them out of the cave if she can save her own skin in space? If she's got that much of a grasp of the force, it should have manifested in other ways, IMO.
- Chase scene out of the casino. Seemed like something straight out of the prequels and a minute too long.
This movie definitely is better on second viewing. I realized that I missed a lot on the first viewing that I caught onto the second time around.
What I took away from the second time around that changed my perception for the better:
- Yoda's chat with Luke really lays out the whole theme of the movie (and maybe this trilogy): the new generation has to learn from their failures...masters can't teach them everything. Paraphrased: what the master teaches, coupled with what they learn from failure, makes the student better than the master eventually.
- I think we're getting into a new type of Jedi with Rey based on Yoda and Luke's dialogue. Yoda said that nothing in the Jedi texts would reveal to Rey anything that wasn't already inside of her. I took this as an explanation of how she's such a powerful force user with minimal training. That comment coupled with Luke's speech to Rey about the nature of the force allowed for a new interpretation of force users not having to fit in a box. I ultimately don't mind that minor alteration from the world-building we had through the original trilogy and prequels.
- The trip to the casino served more of a purpose than I originally thought - Finn was about to serve in his own interests (only loyalty was to Rey) before he was stunned; the casino scene and subsequent talk with del Toro's character gave him a greater sense of purpose than he had before. He saw why the resistance mattered and he solidified his belief that he should choose a side (unlike del Toro's character)
- Kylo Ren came into his own in the dark side - he was manipulating Rey the whole time and really seduced her to potentially turn. She bought into his feint right up to the point that he was willing to let the resistance be obliterated after Snoke was killed. I think they have the ability to make him surpass Darth Vader as the ultimate Star Wars bad guy in the third act if they can show he has no redemption/conflict in him in the third act and is pure dark side evil (what Luke saw in him...and why he knew it wouldn't end how Rey thought). His character improved the most since TFA and Driver really nailed it.
- Luke was served better than I originally thought, too. Yes, it would have been spectacular to see him obliterate the First Order "armada" there, but I think that wouldn't have served much more of a purpose than spectacle...he really demonstrated immense power in force projecting himself to Leia and Kylo and that sequence pushed the story forward. Kylo is solidified as evil and the resistance lives on. I also have little doubt he's going to play an important role in the next movie. Again, his conversation with Yoda is key...and I think captures the whole point of this trilogy.
- I really didn't appreciate how fantastic the visuals and soundtrack were the first go around. Both were really phenomenal.
- It wasn't as humorous as I remembered...meaning I think the humor was timed well and added levity in the right doses, not overkill.
What didn't get any better:
- Phasma the throwaway character...obviously meant to sell toys and be some enduring (but unnecessary) foil to Finn. Only redeeming quality to Phasma showing up again is that her sequence set up BB-8 kicking ass with the AT-ST.
- Maz' "cameo"...I saw on this board that moment being likened to the queue of a rollercoaster that sets the scene for the ride - SPOT ON.
- Force user Leia. So much convenience in the moment to keep her alive...so why couldn't she lift the rocks to get them out of the cave if she can save her own skin in space? If she's got that much of a grasp of the force, it should have manifested in other ways, IMO.
- Chase scene out of the casino. Seemed like something straight out of the prequels and a minute too long.
I'm letting this one percolate a little - not sure if it's going to be a thumbs up or just meh ultimately for me.
I know we all hoped Luke was going to go BAMF there at the end. I wonder if he didn't in order to play into the plot line set early in the movie, when Leia lectured and then demoted Poe for going rogue and putting lives in jeopardy in order to fight when in her estimation (and leadership), retreat and living to fight another day made more sense. Obviously, by movie's end, that's where we ended up.
I know we all hoped Luke was going to go BAMF there at the end. I wonder if he didn't in order to play into the plot line set early in the movie, when Leia lectured and then demoted Poe for going rogue and putting lives in jeopardy in order to fight when in her estimation (and leadership), retreat and living to fight another day made more sense. Obviously, by movie's end, that's where we ended up.
I've also seen a lot of criticism to how little Phasma was used. I don't read the books/comics, so I don't know the backstory there. But let's be honest, Kenner used plenty of small-time characters in the OT that became cult icons and sold really well despite bit roles - Boba Fett, Greedo, etc. Maybe she's the same?
Obviously Boba Fett took on a bigger role in the prequels, so maybe there will be a spin-off a la Rogue One featuring her more?
Obviously Boba Fett took on a bigger role in the prequels, so maybe there will be a spin-off a la Rogue One featuring her more?
I forgot about the BB8 camoflauged as the toaster (mouse) imperial Droid. He even tried his best to make the sounds from A New Hope before Chewbacca growls at one. Funny as hell.
Yes, that's what I meant.Tmoneyag99 said:
Those dice were already part of the original trilogy. Maybe the dice will get their own origin story?
Brian Earl Spilner said:Yes, that's what I meant.Tmoneyag99 said:
Those dice were already part of the original trilogy. Maybe the dice will get their own origin story?
I'm sure those dice will be relevant in the Han Solo movie.
That was not accidental to have it be so important to them yet unspoken.
1. ESB
2. ROTJ
3. ANH
4. RO
5. ROTS
6. TFA
7. ATOC
8. TPM
9. TLJ
2. ROTJ
3. ANH
4. RO
5. ROTS
6. TFA
7. ATOC
8. TPM
9. TLJ
1a/b. ESB/ANH
3. RO
4. TLJ
5. ROTJ
6. TFA
7. ROTS
8. AOTC
9. TPM
3. RO
4. TLJ
5. ROTJ
6. TFA
7. ROTS
8. AOTC
9. TPM
I bet we see Han using those dice to win the Falcon in the Solo movie.
Laser Wolf said:
1. ESB
2. ROTJ
3. ANH
4. RO
5. ROTS
6. TFA
7. ATOC
8. TPM
9. TLJ
I've always been a huge fan of ROTJ as well.
No one has mentioned Luke milking and drinking the Alien
Wasn't the old Legends/Ye Olde EU story that he won the Falcon at a Sabacc tournament?YellowPot_97 said:
I bet we see Han using those dice to win the Falcon in the Solo movie.
Isn't that a card game?
AGGies0311 said:
No one has mentioned Luke milking and drinking the Alien
I think that sequence was supposed to be funny, but I'm not sure. It was really awkward and elicited some murmuring from the audience. One of quite a few WTF moments in the film
A lot of the smaller things like Phasma didn't bother me at all. What bothered me was how ****ty the movie was.
Wasn't that Bantha (sp?) milk, in homage to ANH?
I look forward to a Luke meme about milking anything with nipples.
I wonder if Phasma had been played by an unknown rather than a popular actor from Game of Thrones if she would have been better received and people wouldn't have cared that there was no back story.Old Jock 1997 said:
I've also seen a lot of criticism to how little Phasma was used. I don't read the books/comics, so I don't know the backstory there. But let's be honest, Kenner used plenty of small-time characters in the OT that became cult icons and sold really well despite bit roles - Boba Fett, Greedo, etc. Maybe she's the same?
Obviously Boba Fett took on a bigger role in the prequels, so maybe there will be a spin-off a la Rogue One featuring her more?
he should have had Luke drink it straight from the nipple.BassCowboy33 said:AGGies0311 said:
No one has mentioned Luke milking and drinking the Alien
I think that sequence was supposed to be funny, but I'm not sure. It was really awkward and elicited some murmuring from the audience. One of quite a few WTF moments in the film
Ags4DaWin said:Cromagnum said:
LOL. Luke was not stronger than Yoda or Obi Wan.
Interesting, because it has been said multiple times over by Lucas and others that Luke's strength is what anakin's Could have been had he not gotten all of his limbs chopped off and burned to a husk. Anakin was on path to be stronger than Yoda.
And I think this is a major point of dissonance between fanboys and movie watchers. Three of us dads took our kids Friday night, and yesterday I was rehashing it with one of them at a bbq. I mentioned that the internet was disappointed that Luke didn't go god mode, but he pointed out that Luke never was a super badass. He was a whiny kid, who matured into an unsure adult in the first three moviesand was finally pretty badass at the end of ROTJ. But even then his most badass action was not fighting the emperor.
So if you've just seen the movies it's a very different Luke than the one who could bring down star destroyers with the force.
BassCowboy33 said:AGGies0311 said:
No one has mentioned Luke milking and drinking the Alien
I think that sequence was supposed to be funny, but I'm not sure. It was really awkward and elicited some murmuring from the audience. One of quite a few WTF moments in the film
I think it was supposed to reinforce the idea that he was a grumpy old hermit who didn't give a ****.
I don't mind Luke disappearing, it was just odd in how the film was paced.
He shows up and makes Kylo look like a fool, acts kind of badass then tells him 'see you around kid'. Now we're thinking, ok great, there will be a showdown in Episode IX, i'm pumped.
Then he disappears. um, ok.
He shows up and makes Kylo look like a fool, acts kind of badass then tells him 'see you around kid'. Now we're thinking, ok great, there will be a showdown in Episode IX, i'm pumped.
Then he disappears. um, ok.
It sucks, especially for us that grew up with Luke Skywalker, but in the end these movies couldn't be about him. Disney wants my kids to love Star Wars as much as I did, and that's why it's about Rey and Kylo and Poe and Finn etc.
So the options were 1) he goes out like Han 2)he goes out like Obi Wan 3) he goes out like Yoda.
We got a mix of 2&3, and the more I think about it the cooler it is.
So the options were 1) he goes out like Han 2)he goes out like Obi Wan 3) he goes out like Yoda.
We got a mix of 2&3, and the more I think about it the cooler it is.
The more I think about it the worse this movie gets for me. The prequels were far more entertaining. The prequels had a clear point(that viewers actually give a crap about) throughout and a clear direction when they ended. This movie was a hot mess. I don't get the reasoning to say the movie was good because there was an overall theme and the director accomplished what he was trying to. I can accomplish a lot of things but that doesn't make them entertaining. Was this movie entertaining? In spurts but overall it was not. I wanted it to end and that to me makes it a bad movie.
That's because we're all trying to forget it.AGGies0311 said:
No one has mentioned Luke milking and drinking the Alien
Junkhead said:That's because we're all trying to forget it.AGGies0311 said:
No one has mentioned Luke milking and drinking the Alien
Didn't Rian make a weed joke on Twitter during post-production of TLJ? It all makes sense now.
I get that. I just think the pacing of the moments was bad. Especially if he's a fan, he should know how fans would react to Luke vanishing after basically promising another showdown. Maybe i'm off here, but I took his 'see you around kid' as we'll confront each other again... not, i'll haunt you later.amercer said:
It sucks, especially for us that grew up with Luke Skywalker, but in the end these movies couldn't be about him. Disney wants my kids to love Star Wars as much as I did, and that's why it's about Rey and Kylo and Poe and Finn etc.
So the options were 1) he goes out like Han 2)he goes out like Obi Wan 3) he goes out like Yoda.
We got a mix of 2&3, and the more I think about it the cooler it is.
Actually he said something along the lines of the texts in the tree wouldn't reveal anything that she didn't already have. And if you look at Finn going through the drawers in the Falcon at the end of the movie, Rey had taken the Jedi texts, verified the second time around for me. So, it was Yoda doing a play on words, because Rey had already taken the books. Or that's the way I interpreted it.Quote:
- I think we're getting into a new type of Jedi with Rey based on Yoda and Luke's dialogue. Yoda said that nothing in the Jedi texts would reveal to Rey anything that wasn't already inside of her. I took this as an explanation of how she's such a powerful force user with minimal training. That comment coupled with Luke's speech to Rey about the nature of the force allowed for a new interpretation of force users not having to fit in a box. I ultimately don't mind that minor alteration from the world-building we had through the original trilogy and prequels.
Her ending didn't make her character any better. It sucks regardless.fig96 said:
Interesting reactions in here from what I've seen (I'm not reading all 30something pages).
Unlike some I really enjoyed it. I can see some of the story nitpicks, but I love that Rey wasn't a Skywalker/Solo/whoever and is just someone with a gift. Having her be someone's daughter was the easy way out, making her an everyday person makes her a lot more relatable. Thought her training with Luke was pretty great as well.
Kylo turning on Snoke was awesome as was the following fight scene, also liked how he imposed his reign on Hux and took over. As we know he's impulsive and immature and that was already his undoing vs Skywalker.
Really enjoyed the Luke/Kylo standoff as well as the resolution of Holgo's character. Was interesting to feel the audience's opinion of her shift as she ended up being a badass, and the lightspeed torpedo was fantastic. Was nice to see a crazy mission fail and have consequences with Finn and Rose, and I enjoyed their little side adventure as well as the overall diversity of places they visited. And the closing shot was pitch perfect.
There were some negatives as well, Poe was a little too impulsive and would probably have been sent to the brig and/or court martialed for his actions. Thought it was a bit too light hearted at times, could've done with a shot or two less of the Porgs in particular. And while I loved Luke tossing away his saber, it definitely cheapens the end of TFA.
As a whole I really liked it, much like TFA it felt like a Star Wars film unlike the prequels. Not sure where to rank it at this point but I'm leaning towards putting it ahead of TFA.
Holgos costuming was easily the worst of the movie. A night gown or evening dress. Really?
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