I thought the dice were always hanging in the Falcon
*** SW: The Last Jedi - FULL SPOILERS BE IN HERE ***
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Last: 8 mo ago by Definitely Not A Cop
So this is a huge huge problem I have with this movie on a Star Wars level.tjholley17 said:
- The flashbacks to Luke and Ben Solo... though I wish we could have seen the entire temple destruction scene, it was nice to see a twist on what we thought happened.
Luke Skywalker, a powerful Jedi master, lit his lightsaber because a momentary emotional urge to kill a young apprentice who at that point hadn't done anything wrong at all? Like, through seven movies one of the very few things we absolutely know about the Jedi is that they don't make decisions by emotion. They step back, clear their mind, think on it, feel the will of the force, etc, etc. And yet Luke, who can communicate with several other Jedi ghosts thought about killing an apprentice enough that he actually clicked on his light saber while standing over him?
This is why if you're a fan of Luke Skywalker that you should be mad about this movie is that he set in motion all of the events that led to the death of Han Solo because he was a bad Jedi and couldn't control his emotions.
The dice appear in one scene inside the Falcon in a New Hope. Having them there was a very deep reference that only absolutely extreme Star Wars fans would get. It would be like having a Storm Trooper holding a bag of ice on his head or something.
As for Liea and Ren holding them, they both have the force so perhaps they were the only ones who could hold them. Also, Rey and Ren touch hands via the force so they did set precident earlier in the movie.
As for Liea and Ren holding them, they both have the force so perhaps they were the only ones who could hold them. Also, Rey and Ren touch hands via the force so they did set precident earlier in the movie.
Am I the only one who believe that Kylo lied to Rey about her parents? I just don't believe that she comes from nobodies.
that's kind of the point. He was flawed, he wasn't a perfect Jedi. He saw the darkness in Kylo and what it meant and his first instinct was to destroy it. He went to a dark place in that instant but then pulled himself back... but not before Kylo woke up.bobinator said:So this is a huge huge problem I have with this movie on a Star Wars level.tjholley17 said:
- The flashbacks to Luke and Ben Solo... though I wish we could have seen the entire temple destruction scene, it was nice to see a twist on what we thought happened.
Luke Skywalker, a powerful Jedi master, lit his lightsaber because a momentary emotional urge to kill a young apprentice who at that point hadn't done anything wrong at all? Like, through seven movies one of the very few things we absolutely know about the Jedi is that they don't make decisions by emotion. They step back, clear their mind, think on it, feel the will of the force, etc, etc. And yet Luke, who can communicate with several other Jedi ghosts thought about killing an apprentice enough that he actually clicked on his light saber while standing over him?
This is why if you're a fan of Luke Skywalker that you should be mad about this movie is that he set in motion all of the events that led to the death of Han Solo because he was a bad Jedi and couldn't control his emotions.
I get that and understand the disappointment, but to steal Harrison Fords take on Han Solo, we should want Luke to be emotionally useful to the story, and he was definitely that.
jr15aggie said:
I'm sorta pissed at all the early reviews now... I feel duped by a bunch of nobodies that have seen too many movies and don't really care for the Star Wars characters (Luke in particular) the way us fans do.
It's almost as if the reviewers were applauding boldness knowing the fans would hate it! Well screw you guys! It's not art, it's entertainment. And there was one bit if entertainment we wanted from this new trilogy... Luke... And both directors saw it their duty to try and prove they could do it without him. I'm so sick of Hollywood pulling this crap. Get over yourself and your smug ambitions, this was so simple and you went and over thought the entire thing!
TCTTS had a great line... Something to the effect of this new trilogy is exactly like Luke's projection, something that could have been but ultimately vanished!
I'll say again I didn't hate the movie. I'm seeing again tonight and looking forward to it. There was a lot to like here. But I'm probably forever pissed how JJ and Rian discarded Luke. Like really pissed!!!
I am listening to a bunch of self described Star Wars loving movie professionals (one of which has his 1yr old son's room decked out in Star Wars) gush over this film. Just because they liked it doesn't make them less of a fan, or you more of one for that matter. It reeks of elitism and frankly sadness
I think Luke was always more conflicted with the dark side than he let on... he had some Anakin-like moments in Empire Strikes Back. Also he never did finish his training, so I kind of always saw him as a flawed Jedi.bobinator said:So this is a huge huge problem I have with this movie on a Star Wars level.tjholley17 said:
- The flashbacks to Luke and Ben Solo... though I wish we could have seen the entire temple destruction scene, it was nice to see a twist on what we thought happened.
Luke Skywalker, a powerful Jedi master, lit his lightsaber because a momentary emotional urge to kill a young apprentice who at that point hadn't done anything wrong at all? Like, through seven movies one of the very few things we absolutely know about the Jedi is that they don't make decisions by emotion. They step back, clear their mind, think on it, feel the will of the force, etc, etc. And yet Luke, who can communicate with several other Jedi ghosts thought about killing an apprentice enough that he actually clicked on his light saber while standing over him?
This is why if you're a fan of Luke Skywalker that you should be mad about this movie is that he set in motion all of the events that led to the death of Han Solo because he was a bad Jedi and couldn't control his emotions.
How can you say that about Jedi? Wasn't the entire plot and point of the prequels that some Jedi DO operate on emotion and when they do it is dangerous. I think Jedi don't just flick a switch and kill their emotions, it's a constant battle to keep emotion out of it. Luke knows better than anyone what an emotionally driven Jedi can do. He saw in Ben a scared boy, gone to the dark side, operating on emotion and he knew what that might mean. Luke got weak for a moment. It's like a sober person. It's not like they don't have a desire to drink, it's a constant struggle. Luke and all Jedi HAVE emotion, and it is a task to keep at bay.
I am not sure I ever watched a movie where I liked the tone and feel of the movie, but disliked the plot points that brought forth that tone and feel.
I am a bit surprised that this movie and Rogue One covered a lot of the same emotional and theme issues. Like what it means to be a hero and the nature of hope. I honestly think Rogue One did it better, but I did not necessarily dislike TLJ's handling of the themes either.
Like a lot of you, I am baffled why they introduced Snoke and Rey and build them up, only to have them be largely no one. I mean it is like the Disney executives and Abrams were sitting around and bouncing ideas around about who all these characters are and Johnson, just said, "why do they have to be anyone?" and it blew everyone's minds and they ran with it and made it the theme of the movie. All of us can be heroes or villians, we don't have to be "anyone".
But that leads me back to my problem overall with the new movies. I think they are good movies, but ultimately bad Star Wars movies. By which I mean, they do not add to the Star Wars mythos, and like others have noted they leave me feeling apathetic about IX. After I watched the TLJ, I did think, maybe I don't need opening day tickets to IX.
I know for me I am having a lot of trouble letting the Legends material go and having problems letting my childhood Star Wars go. I think 7-9 belong to the new generation and they will decide if it is good or not. And it looks like the older fans with get Rogue One, Solo, and Kenobi or whatever the third of those movies ends up being.
I am a bit surprised that this movie and Rogue One covered a lot of the same emotional and theme issues. Like what it means to be a hero and the nature of hope. I honestly think Rogue One did it better, but I did not necessarily dislike TLJ's handling of the themes either.
Like a lot of you, I am baffled why they introduced Snoke and Rey and build them up, only to have them be largely no one. I mean it is like the Disney executives and Abrams were sitting around and bouncing ideas around about who all these characters are and Johnson, just said, "why do they have to be anyone?" and it blew everyone's minds and they ran with it and made it the theme of the movie. All of us can be heroes or villians, we don't have to be "anyone".
But that leads me back to my problem overall with the new movies. I think they are good movies, but ultimately bad Star Wars movies. By which I mean, they do not add to the Star Wars mythos, and like others have noted they leave me feeling apathetic about IX. After I watched the TLJ, I did think, maybe I don't need opening day tickets to IX.
I know for me I am having a lot of trouble letting the Legends material go and having problems letting my childhood Star Wars go. I think 7-9 belong to the new generation and they will decide if it is good or not. And it looks like the older fans with get Rogue One, Solo, and Kenobi or whatever the third of those movies ends up being.
I know that's kind of the point, but that's what I'm saying is it's not a point I like because it sort of destroys the character of Luke Skywalker.
And I'm not even necessarily against the idea of destroying the hero image of Luke Skywalker, but I don't like that such a massive moment for two of the central characters of this story happens in between trilogies. Like, that moment led to everything that's happening right now, but we didn't get to see any of the context around that moment.
And I'm not even necessarily against the idea of destroying the hero image of Luke Skywalker, but I don't like that such a massive moment for two of the central characters of this story happens in between trilogies. Like, that moment led to everything that's happening right now, but we didn't get to see any of the context around that moment.
Agree 100%WES2006AG said:
Am I the only one who believe that Kylo lied to Rey about her parents? I just don't believe that she comes from nobodies.
I was on the same page about Del Toro being the real codebreaker all along. He was a gambler. He probably lost his pretty little brooch to that other dude gambling.Champ Bailey said:AggieChemist said:That was my take.Jim01 said:
Am I the only one who thought Del Toro was the master code breaker? That Theroux was misdirection and Del Toro was the right guy?
Oh well maybe I'm just an idiot then.
How much more badass would it have been if Ackbar had been alive and the one piloting the cruiser to drive it through Snokes ship. The second before he does it, Hux realizes and yells, "It's a trap!"
Oh and has their been another SW movie indicating that the cannons on an Imperial Destroyer shoot lasers that are affected by gravity... in space?
And I said the same thing about Ackbar. He is a beloved character and all he got was "oh, Ackbar died too" instead of letting him be the hero to suicide bomb the First Order ship.
Me too.Junkhead said:Agree 100%WES2006AG said:
Am I the only one who believe that Kylo lied to Rey about her parents? I just don't believe that she comes from nobodies.
Watched Jedi Council - according to them, nothing was wrong with the movie other than canto bight ;(
Guess invitation is in the mail for episode 9 premiere.
jr15aggie said:YellowPot_97 said:jr15aggie said:
And there was one bit if entertainment we wanted from this new trilogy... Luke... And both directors saw it their duty to try and prove they could do it without him. I'm so sick of Hollywood pulling this crap. Get over yourself and your smug ambitions, this was so simple and you went and over thought the entire thing
You should really take your own advice.
A trilogy about Luke is what you wanted. But this story was never going to be about him. It's about Kylo Rey Poe and Fin. The OT characters are supporting pieces to the real story. No need to be pissed for it not being the story it was never going to be. Any "short comins" are your own, for building up something that was never there.
First of all... stop making this so personal by calling out others who feel differently than you. No reason to make this thread a hostile place. If people want to vent then just let them. Simply state how you feel differently and leave it at that.
And yet you started this off by effectively saying anyone who liked this film was lying to you and weren't real fans. Oh and the smugness and self righteousness bit you did earlier was real good too, no name calling there.
I am a fan and I loved how they handled Luke. IMO he never need to go buck wild in this film to be a total badass. He literally beamed himself across the galaxy in one of the greatest displays of force manipulation the series has ever seen. He was jaded and saw how very little balance there was to the force. Yes he had a moment of weakness, but he always had one, he was not trained as a Padawan as a young infant to repress his emotions of which have always been a strong part of his character. he was not like the Jedi before him. Rey shows very similar struggles not being an officially trained Jedi.
So I disagree with you, I got the Luke I wanted. I thought we were going to get Jakku levels of badass and quickly realized we got something so much ****ing better and represented the full power and self sacrifice that signifies a true Jedi master.
So on this angle I actually really loved the movie. I love the yin and yang between Kylo and Rey. Kylo is basically related to every character in the Star Wars universe and Rey isn't related to any of them.Dekker_Lentz said:
I mean it is like the Disney executives and Abrams were sitting around and bouncing ideas around about who all these characters are and Johnson, just said, "why do they have to be anyone?" and it blew everyone's minds and they ran with it and made it the theme of the movie. All of us can be heroes or villians, we don't have to be "anyone".
Except that Rey is actually the one who talked first right? Like she said that deep down she knew all along?Junkhead said:Agree 100%WES2006AG said:
Am I the only one who believe that Kylo lied to Rey about her parents? I just don't believe that she comes from nobodies.
I also considered this, but with their force connection would Kyle really be able to lie to her about something that important that she really wanted to know?
Junkhead said:Agree 100%WES2006AG said:
Am I the only one who believe that Kylo lied to Rey about her parents? I just don't believe that she comes from nobodies.
Mark me down as in agreement. Definitely think he was doing his best to do play on her fears and manipulate her.
Of course it could turn out to be true, which for me would be a bit of a bummer if she's just some random girl when they've made it a point in this movie to talk about the Skywalker bloodline as a sort of pedigree as it relates to power.
Not sure it's been commented on, but did anyone else notice that on the final scene, when the boy walks out to sweep, he reaches for the broom but didn't seem to grab it, rather it floated the last few inches to him?
Jim01 said:
Not sure it's been commented on, but did anyone else notice that on the final scene, when the boy walks out to sweep, he reaches for the broom but didn't seem to grab it, rather it floated the last few inches to him?
Yep thought that was an amazing touch
Jim01 said:
Not sure it's been commented on, but did anyone else notice that on the final scene, when the boy walks out to sweep, he reaches for the broom but didn't seem to grab it, rather it floated the last few inches to him?
Yes. I hated it. Unless they are going to introduce a completely new Jedi Master in 9, it makes zero sense how an orphan boy has that much casual control over the force.
Speaking of which, I guess they have set up the plot where Leia will be teaching Rey how to control the force in the next one?
That was kind of hard to miss, but along those lines, Finn reached into a drawer inside the Falcon at one point toward the end to get something and were those the Jedi texts in the drawer? Did Rey take them when she left, which is why Yoda didn't mind sending the tree up in flames?Jim01 said:
Not sure it's been commented on, but did anyone else notice that on the final scene, when the boy walks out to sweep, he reaches for the broom but didn't seem to grab it, rather it floated the last few inches to him?
I noticed it - another thing I didn't like, was a very unlike any other star wars ending..Jim01 said:
Not sure it's been commented on, but did anyone else notice that on the final scene, when the boy walks out to sweep, he reaches for the broom but didn't seem to grab it, rather it floated the last few inches to him?
They should have made it where Del Toro was who they were looking for but he had a gambling problem and lost his lapel pin in a poker game.Champ Bailey said:
Oh I forgot to add, Benicio Del Toro's character. Well acted, completely unbelievable. There is only one man in the galaxy that can break the codes for the First Order, and we lost him. But oh wait, apparently there is two, and he happens to be locked in the same jail cell as the two people looking for the best code breaker in the world. The only way it could have been believable to me was that the First Order planted him there to get Finn and whatever her name was on the Snoke's ship.
(An aside, but thanks to everyone for breaking down the movie, some things that bothered me last night and this morning are bothering me less now and it's good to read other people's perspectives on things in the movie. I still didn't love it, but do love this convo)
I really think this trilogy is moving towards being the story of Kylo Ren rather than Rey. After it was revealed that Rey's parents were "nobody", her part diminished heavily and the climax revolved around Kylo and his conflict with Luke.
I think this is still very much a "Skywalker" story, and if the reveal about Rey's parents are true, then Kylo is the last Skywalker (besides Leia).
I think this is still very much a "Skywalker" story, and if the reveal about Rey's parents are true, then Kylo is the last Skywalker (besides Leia).
Obviously, Luke skipped the don't attempt to murder apprentice kids in their sleep lesson with Yoda. Hopefully, Rey had that course as an 8 am one in her one day semester
Agree. I didn't like the scene as a whole. The huge resistance symbol ring was a bit much. We already understood the point of the scene without that. And yet again visually it looked corny to me, not like a professionally lit and shot piece of film.
AGGies0311 said:
Carpet bombing in zero gravity????
That adjacent plant in the scene is a large mass that creates a gravitational field.
Did it? Because Luke makes a point to say he won't be the last Jedi, so I took the entire ending (with the kid) to mean that Rey is going to bring back the Jedi. That's why I was asking about the books on the Falcon. Did Rey think that far ahead?tjholley17 said:
her part diminished heavily and the climax revolved around Kylo and his conflict with Luke.
one thing that stuck out to me was when Luke said "Ben left with a handful of my students, and slaughtered the rest"
Where are these other students? (Presumably the Knights of Ren)
Where are these other students? (Presumably the Knights of Ren)
After the lightsaber broke in half... we didn't see her for about 20ish minutes. Obviously the ending with her lifting the rocks was big, but for about 20-25 minutes she was absent.bobinator said:Did it? Because Luke makes a point to say he won't be the last Jedi, so I took the entire ending (with the kid) to mean that Rey is going to bring back the Jedi. That's why I was asking about the books on the Falcon. Did Rey think that far ahead?tjholley17 said:
her part diminished heavily and the climax revolved around Kylo and his conflict with Luke.
Either the Knights of Ren or they were the guards in Snoke's throne room.tjholley17 said:
one thing that stuck out to me was when Luke said "Ben left with a handful of my students, and slaughtered the rest"
Where are these other students? (Presumably the Knights of Ren)
Speaking of Snoke's throne room, did anyone else catch the Emperor's throne room theme? Nice call back John Williams.
Right but Luke going away set her up to be the main good guy of episode 9, with her power and leadership rising the new crew is firmly the focus.
Not sure, I assume we will find out because I definitely remember going "oh hey, those should be ash by now."bobinator said:That was kind of hard to miss, but along those lines, Finn reached into a drawer inside the Falcon at one point toward the end to get something and were those the Jedi texts in the drawer? Did Rey take them when she left, which is why Yoda didn't mind sending the tree up in flames?Jim01 said:
Not sure it's been commented on, but did anyone else notice that on the final scene, when the boy walks out to sweep, he reaches for the broom but didn't seem to grab it, rather it floated the last few inches to him?
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