Sean98 said:

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shaynew1 said:

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We're halfway to September

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That quality Goat education you got. 2 months down = halfway to month 9.

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I have to celebrate the little things this time of year...otherwise all I got to worry about is work all day everyday.

FYI. Looking at the post draw results in Wyoming the point creep was pretty bad and will likely continue.

You have to have 2 points to get a general tag in the preference point side of the draw. (Still have a ~15% chance on the random side.) It will likely be nearing 3 points needed to guarantee a general tag in a couple years.

The limited draw areas are experiencing the same thing.

Interesting. I imagine the online age is making hunting out west much more accessible to the average hunter and providing way more info and draw opportunities than ever before. There are now whole businesses set up to make detailed knowledge and information available with just a few mouse clicks. Info that was traditionally quite time consuming and somewhat difficult to discover before is now available for the masses almost instantly. The popularity of guys like Rinella is probably having a duck commander type effect too.

There are good and bad aspects to this, but I definitely don't see the number of hunters heading out west declining any time soon.

I just hope these state wildlife agencies are on top of things and managing with science and not money leading the decisions as pressure increases.

And I hope all these new western hunters are better stewards of the resource than the average new "duck commander" duck hunter that us waterfowlers have had the pleasure of dealing with the last few years.

I think that is an interesting observation. I got ate up with waterfowling just a couple of years before Duck Commander came out. There was definitely already an increase in interest in the sport, a lot of which had to do with the rising price of deer hunting, but Duck Commander pushed things over the edge. We all saw it first hand at Sommerville and public areas on the coast closer to Houston. Now "club" waterfowl leases that were reasonable just a few years ago are getting more exclusive and the hunting isn't really always that great.

I'll be the first to admit if there is a wave of new Western hunters forming from the MeatEater effect then I am firmly on top of it. I was into Rinella's material even when his show was on Travel Channel. I started listening to his podcast late last year and stumbled into an episode with Randy Newberg talking about how "You can go elk hunting every year." The next thing I knew I was going down a wormhole on his YouTube channel learning about the application process and paying for goHunt so I could spend all day researching units in Colorado. Now I'll be one more orange vest huffing through the mountains this fall.

I think the west is big enough and the experience rich enough if everyone is headed out for the right reasons.

shaynew1 said:

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I think the west is big enough and the experience rich enough if everyone is headed out for the right reasons.

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I think the west is BIG enough that the ones that are in it for the wrong reasons will never set foot in the places that many of us hunt because they are hard to reach.

...the question is will it drive the "kinda-serious" hunters off the easy ground and into the high country?

I've spent most of the afternoon looking at draw odds for various species and states and have decided that I'm just too far behind in points for most of these hunts.

For example, I was going to accrue points for AZ sheep hunts, but then I realized the odds pretty much zero from 0-5 points and then only very marginally better at 10-15 points. No reason to accrue points for 10 years when I can just put in during the years I think I could actually go and hope to get lucky at random.

The same can be said for bison, moose, sheep, and goats in WY. Which is fortunate I guess, because it saves a good bit of money.

I've come to similar conclusions about the "glory" species. You can pay for bighorn sheep points for 20 years and still not get a tag. Almost makes more sense to bite the bullet and pay a boatload to go on a hunt in Canada or Mexico.

I'm still trying to figure out if it is even worth it to build points for Elk and Mule deer in the "glory" states like Arizona, Nevada and Utah. You don't get refunded the license cost and you are looking at a long wait and a lot of dollars.

This is TexAgs, right? Just wait 10 years, sell the 100 Yetis you've accumulated and drop $100K on a Governor's tag...

Or, you know, skip 1 year of Texas whitetail hunting lease costs and buy a landowner tag, or hunt the OTC ground like us LOLPoorz.

You can find good deer, maybe not GREAT, but good deer in 100% draw or OTC units. I know. I've been twice and it resulted in this, and in year 2 a miss on a deer 20" bigger than this one.


(been awhile since I've posted that. Feels good.)

There are Giants in 0-1 point draw units. They get that way bc they're an absolute ass whip to reach.

Sean98 said:

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Or, you know, skip 1 year of Texas whitetail hunting lease costs and buy a landowner tag, or hunt the OTC ground like us LOLPoorz.

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this is one reason why hunting in CO has gotten more popular. is a non-resident elk tag expensive at $600 plus? sure. add in costs of travel and even cheap DIY hunts arent cheap. but theyre sure as hell a better bargain than most texas deer leases these days.

Agreed. The hunting situation in Texas is a big part of the reason that when people ask, "So you grew up in Texas, do you miss it?" My answer is pretty universally "No."

I tend to agree with this. I admit I was spoiled growing up with access to family land to hunt so I avoided some hunting lease pains.

When people ask me what the best part of living in CO, my answer is always "Public Land".

I don't think it was your intent but you are making my point. I would rather hunt OTC and 1 or 2 point areas with the "LOLpoors" in Colorado/Wyoming for elk and muleys every year, with maybe a some mid-range New Mexico units mixed in when you draw a tag, than pay hundreds of dollars in license and point fees every year for a shot to maybe shoot an elk on a glory tag in Utah/Nevada in 10 years, or to maybe shoot a sheep in 20.

Also I like the assumption that I'm on a high-dollar Texas whitetail lease.

Excellent.

I remember that deer, but not the hunt details. DIY or outfitter? Draw? Link to story?

DIY in Colorado. Draw, but ~99.7% chance of successfully drawing.

Year 1
Beginners Luck

Year 2
So close, but FAIL

Edit: damn I forgot how long winded I can be.

It actually is the point I was trying to make. I have no interest in applying for 20 years to get a tag, nor do I wish to spend big money on a landowner tag.

And I wasn't assuming you were on a high dollar lease. But in Texas hunting is expensive as ****. That is the point I was getting at.

Ya we're saying the same thing. Also I just read your CO Muley novel, and now I'm not going to be able to sleep thinking about alpine velvet.

Since this is the most active "Western" thread right now, I figured I'd ask this question here:

I'm putting together plans for a family elk trip to Colorado in 2018 or 2019. It will be my dad, brother, brother-in-law, and me, and we would be either truck camping or drop camping.

None of the three of them have ever been, nor do they have any points built up, so my first inclination was that we would do OTC 2nd or 3rd rifle. However, I have reservations about the number of hunters in the field during these seasons and wondered if it might be a better idea to have them all get a pref point this year (or 2 points if we go in 2019), and then we try for one of the draw units during 1st rifle. Using GoHunts odds, there are a good bit of units you should draw at 100% with 1 point that are less than that w/ 0 points.

I realize this would hamper us a little bit because we wouldn't be able to jump between units if necessary to find elk (like we could on an OTC tag), but would this give us the opportunity to hunt in a little more seclusion than the OTC seasons? Anything else I'm missing here or recommendations on how to plan the hunt?

I'd also consider applying for a NM muzzleloader tag in a choice unit. We drew 34 in one go like a bunch of mullets a few years ago.

How long is your planned hunt for? What shape will you be in and how far in do you plan on going?

My experience has been that if you're only going up for a normal week long hunt then you're probably not going to have the time to completely change units to find the elk anyways so I don't see that as an advantage. Most units are big enough that you'd never be able to fully cover a single unit in a week long hunt.

I've only hunted the 2nd rifle season OTC once and didn't find people to be an issue. Granted we went where most weren't (elk weren't there either tho) and also spent a couple days hiking in the snow. If you're only going to hike the "typical" 1-2mi from the truck, then almost anywhere you go you're going to see people.

Drop camp is better in this aspect. It will give you a 2-3 mile head start every morning from those camping at the trail head or roads. If you plan it right, you'll head in away from the trailhead another mile or two and possibly never see another orange vest.

Yeah, I thought about the idea we wouldn't actually be moving unit after my post.

As far as our shape, I am good to go, but worry about us as a group being to put in some decent miles to get away from the crowd. That's the main reason I was considering a drop camp, as it will already get us a decent distance from most other hunters.

AgEng06 said:

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Yeah, I thought about the idea we wouldn't actually be moving unit after my post.

As far as our shape, I am good to go, but worry about us as a group being to put in some decent miles to get away from the crowd. That's the main reason I was considering a drop camp, as it will already get us a decent distance from most other hunters.

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I'm working to get in better shape for this year than last year.

If you put in some work 4-6 months before you go (stairs, lunges, sandbag in pack around the neighborhood, etc.) It's doable. You just have to have the mental drive and want to leave a little earlier in the dark to get where you need to go.

Yeah, I'm not worried about me. I'm worried about wearing down my 57 y/o father over a week of hunting.

It also depends on what my brother and BIL want to spend. If they get tight on me, we'll just have to truck camp and make do.

In that regard (and related to my post above), do you think getting at least 1 PP and drawing 1st rifle would be preferable over OTC in 2nd and 3rd rifle?

AgEng06 said:

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Yeah, I'm not worried about me. I'm worried about wearing down my 57 y/o father over a week of hunting.

It also depends on what my brother and BIL want to spend. If they get tight on me, we'll just have to truck camp and make do.

In that regard (and related to my post above), do you think getting at least 1 PP and drawing 1st rifle would be preferable over OTC in 2nd and 3rd rifle?

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If you ever think you might want to go in after trophy elk down the road if you like the pack in / DIY hunting, I would. But not for this year. I'd look to do a second season OTC this year unless you go with an outfitter. Everyone has different opinions, but that's mine. Personally, I'd talk to Ursus or Log and get their opinion.

Thanks.



Also, it appears I'm not alone on this one:

http://www.rokslide.com/forums/elk/62869-colorado-question.html

http://www.rokslide.com/forums/elk/51122-2018-archery-elk-try-draw-1-otc.html

I just read those same threads yesterday while I was supposed to be working.

I've recently discovered that some very key points of info that I had always believed about NM draw odds/strategy... are simply wrong.

I really dislike a lot about the way this state handles its wildlife business and how they treat NRs, but I also thoroughly enjoyed my SE NM Archery hunt last year.

You can work this broken system.

Lungblood said:

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I've recently discovered that some very key points of info that I had always believed about NM draw odds/strategy... are simply wrong.

I really dislike a lot about the way this state handles its wildlife business and how they treat NRs, but I also thoroughly enjoyed my SE NM Archery hunt last year.

You can work this broken system.

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Tease!

So you figured out the trophy vs. "opportunity" units? Through in landowner permits and you have a great time.

ursusguy said:

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So you figured out the trophy vs. "opportunity" units? Through in landowner permits and you have a great time.

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I had that "figured out" last year. I purposely applied and got drawn for a "standard" unit and it was a great hunt... 17 mule deer spotted on day 1 with 5 bucks (3 legal and 1 very nice).

I relocated and had a stalk op on the good buck on the 3rd day, but ran outta daylight.

What I mean is that there are some nuances to the draw that literally 50% of the people allegedly don't understand. I used to be one of them. All it takes is some time and reading. I don't believe I've cracked any code. I just have a better understanding of what it takes to get drawn for a decent hunt.

Ahhh, very cool.