Pretty sure restaurant staff was not arrested.
Gunfight at the Twin Peaks [Staff Warning on page 47]
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Last: 2 yr ago by rather be fishing
and people from don carlos, and people that drove up after the smoke had cleared.
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quote:quote:
239 detained and 177 arrested? I thought Waco PD rounded up and arrested EVERYBODY?
They arrested three quarters of the people at the scene. That is pretty much arresting everyone.
So the narrative has changed from "everyone!" to "pretty much everyone".
Not one of you have ever mentioned there being over 60 people detained and not arrested.
It has been talked about multiple times that restaurant staff and others were not arrested, but that people that weren't even on the scene when the shootout occurred were arrested. This isn't news.
Good find.
After reading that article, there's little doubt in my mind that the PD has simply acted on "a license to steal", and some are paying a steep price for their presence that day. But on the bright side, guess the fact they weren't shot as well is a plus.
After reading that article, there's little doubt in my mind that the PD has simply acted on "a license to steal", and some are paying a steep price for their presence that day. But on the bright side, guess the fact they weren't shot as well is a plus.
If they had probable cause to arrest all 177 people and the JP found probable cause to set $1mm bail, why are they not seeking civil forfeiture of all vehicles from all 177 people? Waco Police and McLennan County obviously believe all 177 people are involved in a criminal conspiracy of organized crime to assault and murder, it makes no sense that they would not seek to acquire the vehicles used in such a heinous crime.
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quote:
Good find.
After reading that article, there's little doubt in my mind that the PD has simply acted on "a license to steal", and some are paying a steep price for their presence that day. But on the bright side, guess the fact they weren't shot as well is a plus.
Predictable
quote:
Lots of new info here
http://m.wacotrib.com/news/twin-peaks-biker-shooting/vehicle-forfeiture-documents-reveal-new-details-about-deadly-biker-shootout/article_0491c81d-7009-52f1-9120-d9cb08b1609e.html?mode=jqm
Anyone here read that and still think this was all just a little argument that the police overreacted to? These guys were true thugs that went to Twin Peaks that day expecting and looking for a fight.
quote:Last week when we found out that ~30 rounds had been fired by bikers and ~12 had been fired by police, no one was thinking that.quote:
Lots of new info here
http://m.wacotrib.com/news/twin-peaks-biker-shooting/vehicle-forfeiture-documents-reveal-new-details-about-deadly-biker-shootout/article_0491c81d-7009-52f1-9120-d9cb08b1609e.html?mode=jqm
Anyone here read that and still think this was all just a little argument that the police overreacted to? These guys were true thugs that went to Twin Peaks that day expecting and looking for a fight.
However, that article does show evidence that at least 25-30 people were involved in the fight, it doesn't say much about the other 150 people that were arrested.
Hoss pretty sure no one has said criminals should not be prosecuted. What most say is that it took way to long to process the innocent and the method Waco was unconstitutional. They had videos of both inside and outside of the restaurant but held folks for weeks on end for no reason.
Likewise.
While I have no doubt some (perhaps more than a few) there were absolutely up to no good, and are guilty of breaking the law, I'm fully aware of the propensity of overreach, and this appears to be a clear example. Your smug know-it-all arrogance about law enforcement is beyond tired. Perhaps you should make good on your earlier suggestion to simply avoid this thread. You are simply reinforcing a stereotype.
While I have no doubt some (perhaps more than a few) there were absolutely up to no good, and are guilty of breaking the law, I'm fully aware of the propensity of overreach, and this appears to be a clear example. Your smug know-it-all arrogance about law enforcement is beyond tired. Perhaps you should make good on your earlier suggestion to simply avoid this thread. You are simply reinforcing a stereotype.
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quote:
Good find.
After reading that article, there's little doubt in my mind that the PD has simply acted on "a license to steal", and some are paying a steep price for their presence that day. But on the bright side, guess the fact they weren't shot as well is a plus.
Please read through the listing of 27 seizures there and tell me which one of those misunderstood gentleman had their property "stolen" on a "license to steal"
quote:I definitely think that narrative has been spiked. Still not sure the other arrests won't be vindicated over time, too, as more info comes out.quote:
Lots of new info here
http://m.wacotrib.com/news/twin-peaks-biker-shooting/vehicle-forfeiture-documents-reveal-new-details-about-deadly-biker-shootout/article_0491c81d-7009-52f1-9120-d9cb08b1609e.html?mode=jqm
Anyone here read that and still think this was all just a little argument that the police overreacted to? These guys were true thugs that went to Twin Peaks that day expecting and looking for a fight.
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quote:
Your smug know-it-all arrogance about law enforcement is beyond tired.
Dr. Irony is holding on Line 1 for you.
quote:Please indicate those "guilty" as charged.quote:
Good find.
After reading that article, there's little doubt in my mind that the PD has simply acted on "a license to steal", and some are paying a steep price for their presence that day. But on the bright side, guess the fact they weren't shot as well is a plus.
Please read through the listing of 27 seizures there and tell me which one of those misunderstood gentleman had their property "stolen" on a "license to steal"
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quote:quote:Please indicate those "guilty" as charged.quote:
Good find.
After reading that article, there's little doubt in my mind that the PD has simply acted on "a license to steal", and some are paying a steep price for their presence that day. But on the bright side, guess the fact they weren't shot as well is a plus.
Please read through the listing of 27 seizures there and tell me which one of those misunderstood gentleman had their property "stolen" on a "license to steal"
Deflect
quote:No, I don't know all there is to know about Law enforcement, much less pretend to.quote:
Your smug know-it-all arrogance about law enforcement is beyond tired.
Dr. Irony is holding on Line 1 for you.
You, on the other hand, have consistently downplayed, and even mocked the concerns expressed by many on this thread, as if allowing it to go forward threatens your very existence. It borders on paranoia, IMO. I'm an interested observer, commenting from afar, and giving my perspective, based upon my own life's experiences. You have chosen to misread/misinterpret most every comment, and I mostly ignore your barbs and insults rather than dignify them.
I've no reason to suspect nor doubt your integrity, nor have I. Neither do you need to defend the actions of others, especially my general criticisms of questionable/dubious actions and decisions by those neither of us know. But your obsession is duly noted.
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quote:27 forfeiture petitions and 177 people jailed on million dollar bonds. No one has ever argued that this was "just a little argument." The discussion is about how the police abused (and JP) abused their power and held 150 people (who the State isn't asking to have their property forfeited) on million dollar bonds for 10+ days, then drug their feet slowly bringing down the bonds and letting them out of jail. If you read this and gained an iota of evidence that this didn't happen go ahead and point that evidence out, because I don't see it.quote:
Lots of new info here
http://m.wacotrib.com/news/twin-peaks-biker-shooting/vehicle-forfeiture-documents-reveal-new-details-about-deadly-biker-shootout/article_0491c81d-7009-52f1-9120-d9cb08b1609e.html?mode=jqm
Anyone here read that and still think this was all just a little argument that the police overreacted to? These guys were true thugs that went to Twin Peaks that day expecting and looking for a fight.
"True thugs" or not (and, again, if you have any evidence that all 177 people arrested were "true thugs," I'd love to see it), the Constitution of the United States has built-in protections for all. Those protections were clearly flouted by all involved, with the JP even publicly saying that he set the bonds so high to "send a message." Your "position," such as it is, cannot be defended, but feel free to keep trying to change the narrative.
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Let's also all hold our breaths for all the "organized crime" charges holding up, too.
Also interesting to note that a grand total of 4 of the 27 whose property the State is seeking forfeiture on either posted $1MM bonds or are still there with that bond amount. All of the others had their bonds significantly reduced (to as low as $25K).
Also interesting to note that a grand total of 4 of the 27 whose property the State is seeking forfeiture on either posted $1MM bonds or are still there with that bond amount. All of the others had their bonds significantly reduced (to as low as $25K).
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quote:
You, on the other hand, have consistently downplayed, and even mocked the concerns expressed by many on this thread, as if allowing it to go forward threatens your very existence. It borders on paranoia, IMO. I'm an interested observer, commenting from afar, and giving my perspective, based upon my own life's experiences. You have chosen to misread/misinterpret most every comment, and I mostly ignore your barbs and insults rather than dignify them.
I've no reason to suspect nor doubt your integrity, nor have I. Neither do you need to defend the actions of others, especially my general criticisms of questionable/dubious actions and decisions by those neither of us know. But your obsession is duly noted.
You're far from one to label anyone else here as showing signs of paranoia or being a "know it all".
But, throw around some more big words and play the "casual, interested observer from afar" act. There's some who buy it, but anyone that has been around here and AO for long has likely seen otherwise.
It's obvious when your "opponent" has lost the argument when he abandons it to resort to personal attacks as you have throughout this thread, but more especially here. Your disdain for me is obvious.
As one who does not avoid controversy, I am used to it here, and I'm on plenty solid ground defending personal liberties and individual rights against an over reaching government, bent on "protecting me" by relieving me of those same rights.
As one who does not avoid controversy, I am used to it here, and I'm on plenty solid ground defending personal liberties and individual rights against an over reaching government, bent on "protecting me" by relieving me of those same rights.
Come on y'all, let's all stay civil. We can't start calling names every time the Waco Trib publishes an article with new info. There's common ground we can agree on, and there's points of contention. But in the end we're all Ags and kumbaya and bonhomie.
Catching back up on this.... From one page ago, so two WacoTrib articles ago...
quote:So PD is publicly admitting that after they booked them all they started looking for evidence to see who the real rabble rousers are and who should get set free. Last time I checked, that's not how it's supposed to work.
Vest colors and insignia played a role in police arrests and may explain why some bikers are still in jail. Quinn says police investigation of inmates' criminal records and smartphones - who was texting what and when - may help sort out who's a real outlaw and who's a weekend warrior ripe for release or sharply reduced bond.
quote:It's not, but based on the context of a huge gunfight, with the possibility of more armed bikers streaming into Waco from around the state, it's the route the police chose to take.
Catching back up on this.... From one page ago, so two WacoTrib articles ago...quote:So PD is publicly admitting that after they booked them all they started looking for evidence to see who the real rabble rousers are and who should get set free. Last time I checked, that's not how it's supposed to work.
Vest colors and insignia played a role in police arrests and may explain why some bikers are still in jail. Quinn says police investigation of inmates' criminal records and smartphones - who was texting what and when - may help sort out who's a real outlaw and who's a weekend warrior ripe for release or sharply reduced bond.
No matter the size of the incident though, the constitution still rules the day.
quote:
Hoss pretty sure no one has said criminals should not be prosecuted. What most say is that it took way to long to process the innocent and the method Waco was unconstitutional. They had videos of both inside and outside of the restaurant but held folks for weeks on end for no reason.
I'm not saying the police or the county handled it perfectly, but a lot of people in this thread and elsewhere have made a lot of serious accusations against the police that we're finding out aren't true. Some people painted a picture of 18-20 officers with rifles firing full auto into a crowd of innocent and helpless bikers and then arresting everyone that was still standing. Now we know that three officers fired a total of 12 rounds, all of which were mostly likely fired in defense of themselves or someone else. And that a whole lot of the people there were NOT arrested.
Could things have been handled differently by the police and county? There's certainly room for improvement. But they're not the ones to blame here. If people want to point fingers, they need to point them at the thugs that showed up that day looking for a fight.
quote:
And that a whole lot of the people there were NOT arrested.
Hoss, we always knew that there were people there that were not arrested. Waco PD has been asked and has refused to answer the question of whether there were any bikers that were not arrested. People were arrested in the restaurant next door that were not in any motorcycle club/gang. Their crime was eating at Don Carlos while wearing a Harley shirt. No vest, no leather, no affiliations. Just poor taste in mexican food and wrong place at the wrong time.
quote:Gang members fighting has absolutely no bearing on how the police should handle uninvolved parties.
Could things have been handled differently by the police and county? There's certainly room for improvement. But they're not the ones to blame here. If people want to point fingers, they need to point them at the thugs that showed up that day looking for a fight.
quote:Absolutely. The police are not the bad guys here. The motorcycle gang members who killed one another in cold blood are the bad guys. That should not be in dispute.quote:
Hoss pretty sure no one has said criminals should not be prosecuted. What most say is that it took way to long to process the innocent and the method Waco was unconstitutional. They had videos of both inside and outside of the restaurant but held folks for weeks on end for no reason.
I'm not saying the police or the county handled it perfectly, but a lot of people in this thread and elsewhere have made a lot of serious accusations against the police that we're finding out aren't true. Some people painted a picture of 18-20 officers with rifles firing full auto into a crowd of innocent and helpless bikers and then arresting everyone that was still standing. Now we know that three officers fired a total of 12 rounds, all of which were mostly likely fired in defense of themselves or someone else. And that a whole lot of the people there were NOT arrested.
Could things have been handled differently by the police and county? There's certainly room for improvement. But they're not the ones to blame here. If people want to point fingers, they need to point them at the thugs that showed up that day looking for a fight.
quote:One is murder. One is an alleged rights violation in the context of the worst mass murder in that city in a generation.quote:quote:Absolutely. The police are not the bad guys here. The motorcycle gang members who killed one another in cold blood are the bad guys. That should not be in dispute.quote:
Hoss pretty sure no one has said criminals should not be prosecuted. What most say is that it took way to long to process the innocent and the method Waco was unconstitutional. They had videos of both inside and outside of the restaurant but held folks for weeks on end for no reason.
I'm not saying the police or the county handled it perfectly, but a lot of people in this thread and elsewhere have made a lot of serious accusations against the police that we're finding out aren't true. Some people painted a picture of 18-20 officers with rifles firing full auto into a crowd of innocent and helpless bikers and then arresting everyone that was still standing. Now we know that three officers fired a total of 12 rounds, all of which were mostly likely fired in defense of themselves or someone else. And that a whole lot of the people there were NOT arrested.
Could things have been handled differently by the police and county? There's certainly room for improvement. But they're not the ones to blame here. If people want to point fingers, they need to point them at the thugs that showed up that day looking for a fight.
Both being in the wrong are not mutually exclusive. Criminals should be harshly and swiftly dealt with. Those who intentionally violated the constitutional rights of innocent citizens should be held accountable as well.
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