quote:
I know that in the picture of the dead guys and parking lot there are at least 2 pistols visible next to DBs.
If you act like a hood/thug/criminal/OBC expect to be treated like one. Don't join a 1%er OMC if you think it's unfair to be grouped and labeled into a group of criminals. It's simple.
quote:Bingo!
A reasonable person would have known that this wasn't the place to be, and that something bad has the potential to go down.
quote:
I understand your perspective, because I originally had the same thought: "geez, what if I had been at the Twin Peaks when this went down? Then I would be in the Waco convention center with all these idiots..."
But the fact of the matter is: if you would have walked into Twin Peaks after seeing 200 bikes, and then seen the kind of people that were there, you would have walked out. A reasonable person would have known that this wasn't the place to be, and that something bad has the potential to go down.
quote:quote:
I understand your perspective, because I originally had the same thought: "geez, what if I had been at the Twin Peaks when this went down? Then I would be in the Waco convention center with all these idiots..."
But the fact of the matter is: if you would have walked into Twin Peaks after seeing 200 bikes, and then seen the kind of people that were there, you would have walked out. A reasonable person would have known that this wasn't the place to be, and that something bad has the potential to go down.
I agree 100%. Bunch of dirtbags. Typical guys that were losers in high school. Still doesn't mean that "everybody was a willing participant in the events". Bad place to be? Hell yeah. All 170+ showed up Sunday ready and willing to participant in a shootout and murders? Very, very doubtful.
quote:
It's so ironic I just finished the final season of SOA on Friday.
Everybody tries to lump everyone in an MC as just terrible gang members. Even known outlaw MCs that have a terrible reputation are different from other gangs; MCs aren't like other gangs. Many MCs have benefits and actually give/do some good in the world. It may be decent and not make up for the bad, but there's a reason they literally wear patches that clearly say their names. Do all Crips, Bloods, or other street gangs that literally wear the name of their gang on their back and where they're from? I don't think so.
quote:My guess is the majority of our society has no clue what a "1%er" is....quote:
I know that in the picture of the dead guys and parking lot there are at least 2 pistols visible next to DBs.
If you act like a hood/thug/criminal/OBC expect to be treated like one. Don't join a 1%er OMC if you think it's unfair to be grouped and labeled into a group of criminals. It's simple.
Agreed. We can argue over what the term "1%er" means all day long, but my best guess says that the majority of our society believes it to have a criminal connotation.
quote:FIFY. Makes sense because it's the exact spot you would give the Houston/Galveston area an enema.
The Banditos were founded inHoustonSan Leon
quote:Eh, I can pick many of the signs for criminal street gangs out from a distance, but my background is probably a bit different than yours.
You can eventually peg them out, but it's different than looking at some guy at Twin Peaks and saying yep, Banditos. Don't take my response as me excusing the outlaws or 1% gangs and saying they're just great guys, I'm just saying let's not completely drop the hatchet on all ~200 guys that were at the Twin Peaks incident.
quote:quote:If you are part of a motorcycle club that would get invited to a CoC meeting, you are more than likely aware of ongoing disputes between the Bandidos and the Cossacks. And you are also more than likely aware of their illegal activity. Why would you purposely go an environment that had that much dry powder?quote:
It's kinda hard to feel sympathy when everyone was a willing participant in the events.
Who is everyone? I find it very hard to believe that all 170-180 bikers knew what would go down at Twin Peaks. A fight? Probably with all the tension but that doesn't mean that everybody was involved or knew that murders would happen. From the reports I've read, there were quite a few smaller MCs present due to it being a CoC meeting. Those guys don't just not show up because they are scared a fight might take place. I'd be willing to bet there were quite a few present that had the same "WTF just happened" thoughts as most of us. Now the Cossacks and Bandidos....I'd venture to say all of their members were fully aware of what was going to happen. Maybe not 9 people dead, but a huge brawl. Especially with the multiple events over the past 2-3 months.
Maybe this is why its not a good idea to wear leather cuts with patches that make you look like a criminal.
quote:quote:My guess is the majority of our society has no clue what a "1%er" is....quote:
I know that in the picture of the dead guys and parking lot there are at least 2 pistols visible next to DBs.
If you act like a hood/thug/criminal/OBC expect to be treated like one. Don't join a 1%er OMC if you think it's unfair to be grouped and labeled into a group of criminals. It's simple.
Agreed. We can argue over what the term "1%er" means all day long, but my best guess says that the majority of our society believes it to have a criminal connotation.
quote:Oh, well, damn those Cossacks. If only they would wear something to identify themselves so that when I walk into a bar, I know they are there.quote:quote:If you are part of a motorcycle club that would get invited to a CoC meeting, you are more than likely aware of ongoing disputes between the Bandidos and the Cossacks. And you are also more than likely aware of their illegal activity. Why would you purposely go an environment that had that much dry powder?quote:
It's kinda hard to feel sympathy when everyone was a willing participant in the events.
Who is everyone? I find it very hard to believe that all 170-180 bikers knew what would go down at Twin Peaks. A fight? Probably with all the tension but that doesn't mean that everybody was involved or knew that murders would happen. From the reports I've read, there were quite a few smaller MCs present due to it being a CoC meeting. Those guys don't just not show up because they are scared a fight might take place. I'd be willing to bet there were quite a few present that had the same "WTF just happened" thoughts as most of us. Now the Cossacks and Bandidos....I'd venture to say all of their members were fully aware of what was going to happen. Maybe not 9 people dead, but a huge brawl. Especially with the multiple events over the past 2-3 months.
Maybe this is why its not a good idea to wear leather cuts with patches that make you look like a criminal.
Cossacks weren't invited to this event. They showed up uninvited.
quote:quote:Eh, I can pick many of the signs for criminal street gangs out from a distance, but my background is probably a bit different than yours.
You can eventually peg them out, but it's different than looking at some guy at Twin Peaks and saying yep, Banditos. Don't take my response as me excusing the outlaws or 1% gangs and saying they're just great guys, I'm just saying let's not completely drop the hatchet on all ~200 guys that were at the Twin Peaks incident.
There were no "regular" people wearing cuts at Twin Peaks that morning, it was a specific meeting for the OMGs to "discuss" their grievances with each other. Given the proliferation of weapons immediately produced, do you think that there were 145 guys going "oh no what is going on" or do you think there were roughly 200 guys going "I'm going to kick that guys @$$ for my club"?
quote:
All 170+ showed up Sunday ready and willing to participant in a shootout and murders? Very, very doubtful.
quote:quote:
All 170+ showed up Sunday ready and willing to participant in a shootout and murders? Very, very doubtful.
The fact remains that many actually DID participate. 9 dead and a hundred some-odd injured. How many there dialed 911 and took cover? So yeah, the vast majority were "ready and willing" to participate. How do you draw any other conclusion?
Your argument is a little like saying, "I wanted to play running back, but I never intended to get tackled."
quote:Or 18 injured... only off by 82 some-oddquote:
All 170+ showed up Sunday ready and willing to participant in a shootout and murders? Very, very doubtful.
The fact remains that many actually DID participate. 9 dead and a hundred some-odd injured. How many there dialed 911 and took cover? So yeah, the vast majority were "ready and willing" to participate. How do you draw any other conclusion?
Your argument is a little like saying, "I wanted to play running back, but I never intended to get tackled."
quote:
Reading up on this, it was apparently about the Cossacks not abiding by "the rules" and having a Texas "Bottom Rocker" patch on their vest (only the Banditos are allowed to have that apparently). Skimming this thread below on another site about patches on vests, this whole thing is dumb. These guys go and shoot up a restaurant because they take that much offense to guys having a Texas patch on their vest? Come on. If anything, they probably just educated the entire country on a bunch of stuff they had no clue on and now probably won't tolerate....
http://www.hdforums.com/forum/the-general-b-s-forum/447366-great-these-patches-could-get-my-azz-kicked.html
quote:To be fair, 18 were hospitalized, it doesn't mean that others weren't injured.quote:Or 18 injured... only off by 82 some-oddquote:
All 170+ showed up Sunday ready and willing to participant in a shootout and murders? Very, very doubtful.
The fact remains that many actually DID participate. 9 dead and a hundred some-odd injured. How many there dialed 911 and took cover? So yeah, the vast majority were "ready and willing" to participate. How do you draw any other conclusion?
Your argument is a little like saying, "I wanted to play running back, but I never intended to get tackled."
quote:quote:Or 18 injured... only off by 82 some-oddquote:
All 170+ showed up Sunday ready and willing to participant in a shootout and murders? Very, very doubtful.
The fact remains that many actually DID participate. 9 dead and a hundred some-odd injured. How many there dialed 911 and took cover? So yeah, the vast majority were "ready and willing" to participate. How do you draw any other conclusion?
Your argument is a little like saying, "I wanted to play running back, but I never intended to get tackled."
quote:
Reading up on this, it was apparently about the Cossacks not abiding by "the rules" and having a Texas "Bottom Rocker" patch on their vest (only the Banditos are allowed to have that apparently). Skimming this thread below on another site about patches on vests, this whole thing is dumb. These guys go and shoot up a restaurant because they take that much offense to guys having a Texas patch on their vest? Come on. If anything, they probably just educated the entire country on a bunch of stuff they had no clue on and now probably won't tolerate....
http://www.hdforums.com/forum/the-general-b-s-forum/447366-great-these-patches-could-get-my-azz-kicked.html
quote:
LOL. A lawyer that can't get the facts straight, starts sentences with "the fact remains.." when he doesn't know all the facts, and then makes a
horrendous analogy.
quote:Maybe they didn't call 911, but there was a significant and obvious police presence there already. Considering half or less had weapons and outside the 10% that were actually treated for injuries, the people arrested didn't show any signs of being in a fight, my guess is that the majority of them did not fight in any way.quote:
LOL. A lawyer that can't get the facts straight, starts sentences with "the fact remains.." when he doesn't know all the facts, and then makes a
horrendous analogy.
I stand corrected on the injuries -- got the number confused with the reported arrests. I don't think any of us knows what the full facts are, so please don't act like YOU do. There have been other mistatements on this and other threads -- go off on them, too.
There was nothing horrendous about the analogy. It fits perfectly.
quote:I would have still gone in, but I grew up around bikers and am not afraid of a bunch of guys because they are in a motorcycle club. I'd probably chat with them about their bikes and road trips they have gone on.
GS: if this meeting were being held at a restaurant you wanted to go to for Sunday lunch, you arrived and saw who was there (before anything violent happened), would you have still gone in?
quote:They have all been charged with engaging in organized crime linked to capital murder and all could face the death penalty. Their bikes have been confiscated and will likely be auctioned off as civil forfeiture with WPD taking the cash.
Heard on the radio this morning that bail is $1 million each for the guys in jail. And they are all charged with felonies. Many people commit murder and their bail is not $1 million.
My guess is that the investigators are having a hard time sorting out who did what to whom.
quote:Only the Bandidos. The rest were more like your normal groups, from what I understand.
So none of these clubs that were there before the Cossacks showed up had ANY reputation for or propensity toward violence?
