Student Section at tu, and Cornyn

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Vessel
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Old McDonald said:

ethnonationalists would be much more successful at trojan horsing their racial grievances into mainstream politics if they could just act normal and not annoying when thrust into the spotlight like this.

every time something like the bo french tweet happens and their log gets turned over, they spend the next week sperging online and doing the "we demand to be taken seriously" routine long past the point the rest of society says "ew" and turns it back over.

I think we're quite pleased to have this discussion thrown in to the national spotlight. It's an extremely important political topic that more people need to be clued in to. Texas becoming India 2.0 is a major problem that more people should be talking about.

Unfortunately, people get uncomfortable when you talk about it, which is the primary reason the problem has gotten so bad in the first place.
japantiger
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S
Zobel said:

It's an incredibly common thing. Here's a five second ai search.

* J. Hector St. John de Crvecoeur "that race now called Americans"; "a new race of men" (1782).
* Thomas Jefferson treated Americans as an Anglo-Saxon-descended people with a distinct New World genealogy and political inheritance.
* Ralph Waldo Emerson predicted that America's mixture of peoples would "construct a new race" (1845).
* Walt Whitman "America is the race of races" (1855); later wrote explicitly of the "average good American race."
* Frederick Jackson Turner described the frontier as producing "a new people, with new social and political types and ideals" and a distinctive American character.
* Henry Cabot Lodge treated the established American population as an ethnic body, contrasting immigrants from "races most alien to the body of the American people."
* Theodore Roosevelt exceptionally explicit: Americans had become "a people by ourselves"; the word American had acquired more than geographical meaning; he called the pioneers "distinctively and intensely American stock."
* Woodrow Wilson wrote of a distinct "American type of man" and later spoke of the "[American] race" being renewed by immigrant stocks.
* Madison Grant referred to the older population as the once-distinct "'American' people" and treated it as a historically formed national stock.
* Robert DeCourcy Ward wrote of the "traditional" native-born American type and the maintenance of a homogeneous American race.
* Albert Johnson treated the existing American population as a particular national/racial stock when shaping the 1924 national-origins immigration system.
* James A. Reed described the melting pot as having produced a "distinctive American type" and spoke explicitly of preserving America's "racial composition."
* Calvin Coolidge spoke in explicitly racial/ethnic terms about preserving an American population type and argued that "biological laws" limited the blending of divergent peoples.
* Lothrop Stoddard wrote that by the mid-19th century there existed "a real American nation inhabited by a well-defined 'American race.'"
* Harry H. Laughlin attempted a formal "definition of the American Race," describing the "racial stock of the American people" as a historically constituted population.

For Anglo Americans
* Stephen F. Austin "the Anglo-American race" (1836): "a war of barbarism and of despotic principles … against civilization and the Anglo-American race."
* Sam Houston spoke of the "Anglo-American race" in Texas; in 1848 described Mexico's objective as the annihilation of "the entire Anglo-American race" there.
* Jedediah Morse "Anglo-Americans" (1789): Americans descended principally from the English were, "for the sake of distinction, … called Anglo-Americans."
* Daniel Webster described Americans as the "Anglo-American" branch of the "English race" and envisioned the continent becoming Anglo-American.
* Herbert Baxter Adams employed the concept of an "Anglo-American race" in his historical account of American institutions and their Germanic/English origins.
* Theodore Roosevelt repeatedly conceived western expansion as the movement of the Anglo-American race, alongside his separate conception of an emergent American race.
* Josiah C. Nott described an "Anglo-American nation" as a distinct racial population within the contemporary ethnological taxonomy.
* Chester Newell described the settlement of Texas as "establishing the Anglo-American race" to the south and west (1838).
* Sam Houston's Texas contemporaries the phrase "Anglo-American race" was also ordinary enough in the Texas expansionist discourse of the 1830s40s to appear in private political correspondence about the westward movement of Americans.
* Late-19th-century American legal and civic writers the president of the American Bar Association in 1893 could refer without explanation to "our Anglo-American race," indicating that the formulation remained conventional elite vocabulary.

Well done set of references by the way....

"A single generation, passed under the hard conditions of life in the wilderness, was enough to weld together into one people the representatives of these numerous and widely different races; and the children of the next generation became indistinguishable from one another. Long before the first Continental Congress assembled, the backwoodsmen, whatever their blood, had become Americans, one in speech, thought, and character… Their iron surroundings made a mould which turned out all alike in the same shape."

Additional quotes: they lost "all remembrance of Europe and all sympathy with things European"
They became "products native to the soil."
The same iron conditions "produced a shared character: self-reliant, freedom-loving, democratic in their little commonwealths, grim, hardy, often violent, and fiercely attached to the land they had taken" The Winning of the West, Teddy Roosevelt - multivolume series begun in 1889

Vessel
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infinity ag said:

Vessel said:

Yeah Dhairya Gupta is indistinguishable from John Smith. Basically the same in every way.


Yup. Americans. If you feel Americans are white and only white, just say so.

We are US citizens: Meet Dhairya Gupta and Rahul Kodali who went to watch a football match. Now their faces are target of racist rants
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/us/we-are-us-citizens-meet-dhairya-gupta-and-rahul-kodali-who-went-to-watch-a-football-match-now-their-faces-are-target-of-racist-rants/articleshow/134292449.cms

Quote:

Gupta said he came to the US when he was 5 years old and got his citizenship in his childhood.

Kodali was born in Syracuse, New York
. His family moved to the Dallas area when he was a toddler. He graduated from Flower Mound High School in Denton County and receives in-state tuition."Whether or not we are immigrants, that doesn't change anything," Kodali said.

"I've been an American my entire life."



Hmm. Never thought that I would someday be defending a Longhorn!


So one was actually born in India and the other was born here to immigrant parents. This only further proves the point. Neither of those kids should be citizens, obviously. And they aren't even 2nd/3rd gen as many of y'all have tried to claim.

The situation only gets worse the more you dig in to it.
deddog
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AG
Zobel said:

https://texags.com/forums/16/topics/3623336/replies/72877908

Again. This Charlie Kirk?

You are conflating two issues.

Charlie Kirk was against H1s.
None of the students in the tu picture are H1s, they are students of a different origin (non-caucasian) who were born here, or have been American citizens since their childhood.

So TurningPoint is being very consistent, and Charlie would absolutely be proud.

All of these can be true at the same time

- Not wanting H1s
- Wanting foreign origin American citizens to assimilate
- Discussing whether it makes sense to allow immigration from 3rd world countries
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torrid
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AG
Vessel said:

Old McDonald said:

ethnonationalists would be much more successful at trojan horsing their racial grievances into mainstream politics if they could just act normal and not annoying when thrust into the spotlight like this.

every time something like the bo french tweet happens and their log gets turned over, they spend the next week sperging online and doing the "we demand to be taken seriously" routine long past the point the rest of society says "ew" and turns it back over.

I think we're quite pleased to have this discussion thrown in to the national spotlight. It's an extremely important political topic that more people need to be clued in to. Texas becoming India 2.0 is a major problem that more people should be talking about.

Unfortunately, people get uncomfortable when you talk about it, which is the primary reason the problem has gotten so bad in the first place.


So, it started a conversation?
Vessel
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Being born here to immigrants means they are the children of H1s…

Children of immigrants should obviously not be entitled to all the same things as Americans.
EclipseAg
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AG
torrid said:

I think he'd make a distinction between a political discussion on immigration policy and attacking American college students enjoying a football game just because they look different.

"Attacking."

LOL
deddog
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AG
Vessel said:

Being born here to immigrants means they are the children of H1s…

Children of immigrants should obviously not be entitled to all the same things as Americans.

No it does not.
It means they were born to currently naturalized US Citizens.

Some of them might have had H1s originally.
Some of them might be direct green card lottery holders

Given the ages of those pictured, I can guarantee, none of the parents are currently H1s
Sweep4-2
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Does that apply to my Jonny Kim example?

Is there a specific part of his life (or any other natural born US citizen) that he shouldn't have been allowed to do?
Consistency: It's only a virtue if you're not a screw-up.
Vessel
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deddog said:

Vessel said:

Being born here to immigrants means they are the children of H1s…

Children of immigrants should obviously not be entitled to all the same things as Americans.

No it does not.
It means they were born to currently naturalized US Citizens.

Some of them might have had H1s originally.
Some of them might be direct green card lottery holders

Given the ages of those pictured, I can guarantee, none of the parents are currently H1s


Who cares about now? What were they at the time their kids were born? One we know of was brought here at 5 and the other we know of was born to immigrants.
Vessel
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I don't know who that is. Maybe take the positions I've articulated and use logic to apply those positions to your guy.
deddog
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AG
Vessel said:

deddog said:

Vessel said:

Being born here to immigrants means they are the children of H1s…

Children of immigrants should obviously not be entitled to all the same things as Americans.

No it does not.
It means they were born to currently naturalized US Citizens.

Some of them might have had H1s originally.
Some of them might be direct green card lottery holders

Given the ages of those pictured, I can guarantee, none of the parents are currently H1s


Who cares about now? What were they at the time their kids were born? One we know of was brought here at 5 and the other we know of was born to immigrants.

The law does.
We are a nation of laws right?
By law, they are American citizens , no matter how much you want to call them H1s (that are, correctly, treated differently from US citizens.)

You want to hold the kids accountable for the perceived sins of previous generations? Thats a dangerous game to play, that won't work out well for anyone.
Vessel
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deddog said:

Vessel said:

deddog said:

Vessel said:

Being born here to immigrants means they are the children of H1s…

Children of immigrants should obviously not be entitled to all the same things as Americans.

No it does not.
It means they were born to currently naturalized US Citizens.

Some of them might have had H1s originally.
Some of them might be direct green card lottery holders

Given the ages of those pictured, I can guarantee, none of the parents are currently H1s


Who cares about now? What were they at the time their kids were born? One we know of was brought here at 5 and the other we know of was born to immigrants.

The law does.
We are a nation of laws right?
By law, they are American citizens , no matter how much you want to call them H1s.

You want to hold the kids accountable for the perceived sins of previous generations? Thats a dangerous game to play, that won't work out well for anyone.


Yes, I'm aware the laws are ridiculous. As has been articulated dozens of times over in the thread, being a citizen does not make you American. Those are just Indians with American citizenship.
Sweep4-2
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I don't know how to post links. He's a former Navy Seal, astronaut who logged 244 days in space and has a Harvard medical MD. And he did all that before the age of 40.

He was born in the USA to poor South Korean immigrants. He's a remarkable guy and has achieved far more in life than many of the people who say he's not a true American.

And he'd probably be blasted by some on this board as a lesser value American. But anyway, please let me know what he doesn't deserve in your example.

And anyone that wants to deport or marginalize a patriot like him while happily funding a bunch of lazy, welfare scamming white citizens is nuts.
Consistency: It's only a virtue if you're not a screw-up.
Vessel
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The position you are essentially taking is that H1s aren't American but the children of H1s are. That makes no sense. The children of Indian immigrants are still Indian.

Being born here does not make you American. It just means you were born in a host country.

ETA: And you also seemed to imply that the H1 that later becomes a naturalized citizen is now American. That's obviously nonsensical and completely arbitrary.
deddog
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AG
Vessel said:

deddog said:

Vessel said:

deddog said:

Vessel said:

Being born here to immigrants means they are the children of H1s…

Children of immigrants should obviously not be entitled to all the same things as Americans.

No it does not.
It means they were born to currently naturalized US Citizens.

Some of them might have had H1s originally.
Some of them might be direct green card lottery holders

Given the ages of those pictured, I can guarantee, none of the parents are currently H1s


Who cares about now? What were they at the time their kids were born? One we know of was brought here at 5 and the other we know of was born to immigrants.

The law does.
We are a nation of laws right?
By law, they are American citizens , no matter how much you want to call them H1s.

You want to hold the kids accountable for the perceived sins of previous generations? Thats a dangerous game to play, that won't work out well for anyone.


Yes, I'm aware the laws are ridiculous. As has been articulated dozens of times over in the thread, being a citizen does not make you American. Those are just Indians with American citizenship.

You have NO way of truly knowing that.
Vessel
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deddog said:

Vessel said:

deddog said:

Vessel said:

deddog said:

Vessel said:

Being born here to immigrants means they are the children of H1s…

Children of immigrants should obviously not be entitled to all the same things as Americans.

No it does not.
It means they were born to currently naturalized US Citizens.

Some of them might have had H1s originally.
Some of them might be direct green card lottery holders

Given the ages of those pictured, I can guarantee, none of the parents are currently H1s


Who cares about now? What were they at the time their kids were born? One we know of was brought here at 5 and the other we know of was born to immigrants.

The law does.
We are a nation of laws right?
By law, they are American citizens , no matter how much you want to call them H1s.

You want to hold the kids accountable for the perceived sins of previous generations? Thats a dangerous game to play, that won't work out well for anyone.


Yes, I'm aware the laws are ridiculous. As has been articulated dozens of times over in the thread, being a citizen does not make you American. Those are just Indians with American citizenship.

You have NO way of truly knowing that.



Yeah it's literally impossible to tell.
deddog
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AG
Vessel said:

The position you are essentially taking is that H1s aren't American but the children of H1s are. That makes no sense. The children of Indian immigrants are still Indian.

Being born here does not make you American. It just means you were born in a host country.

ETA: And you also seemed to imply that the H1 that later becomes a naturalized citizen is now American. That's obviously nonsensical and completely arbitrary.

It is no more arbitrary than deciding what constitutes an American.
Is a first generation polish more American than a 2nd generation Indian? How do you distinguish that?
Vessel
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deddog said:

Vessel said:

The position you are essentially taking is that H1s aren't American but the children of H1s are. That makes no sense. The children of Indian immigrants are still Indian.

Being born here does not make you American. It just means you were born in a host country.

ETA: And you also seemed to imply that the H1 that later becomes a naturalized citizen is now American. That's obviously nonsensical and completely arbitrary.

It is no more arbitrary than deciding what constitutes an American.
Is a first generation polish more American than a 2nd generation Indian? How do you distinguish that?



There is more in common, yes. Far far more.

Like I've said before, millennia of historical lineage and cultural experiences that define current cultural compatibility.

Now justify your position that one day one just becomes American. And an Indian born here has become American just by being born on America's soil.
Aggie97
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AG
Zobel said:

Aggie97 said:

So after reading some comments on this thread. My question is are WASPs the only real Americans?

"Real"?

No there are a lot of American citizens from all sorts of ethnicities.

Not all American citizens are ethnically American. Not all ethnic American heredity is Anglo Saxon, but it's a significant source. American as an ethnicity is a mixture of Europeans, just like English as an ethnicity was a mixture.

I am first generation. My parents are from Greece. My Dad was naturalized before I was born and my mother was not. Am I an American since my family is from Europe?
deddog
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AG
Vessel said:

deddog said:

Vessel said:

The position you are essentially taking is that H1s aren't American but the children of H1s are. That makes no sense. The children of Indian immigrants are still Indian.

Being born here does not make you American. It just means you were born in a host country.

ETA: And you also seemed to imply that the H1 that later becomes a naturalized citizen is now American. That's obviously nonsensical and completely arbitrary.

It is no more arbitrary than deciding what constitutes an American.
Is a first generation polish more American than a 2nd generation Indian? How do you distinguish that?



There is more in common, yes. Far far more.

Like I've said before, millennia of historical lineage and cultural experiences that define current cultural compatibility.

Now justify your position that one day one just becomes American. And an Indian born here has become American just by being born on America's soil.

The short: Lineage and cultural experiences do matter, and lineage is not the same across all of India either. I know that Indians from certain parts of India (originally Mumbai, Delhi - the more cosmopolitan cities) assimilate in the US a lot better than from other parts of India.

FWIW - I think Poland is a bad example, because anybody who has been through a socialist/communist hell appreciates what America gives them, and would assimilate a heck of a lot sooner than anybody else.
Sweep4-2
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More info needed. Please describe the approximate color of your skin for a better answer.
Consistency: It's only a virtue if you're not a screw-up.
No Spin Ag
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Aggie97 said:

Zobel said:

Aggie97 said:

So after reading some comments on this thread. My question is are WASPs the only real Americans?

"Real"?

No there are a lot of American citizens from all sorts of ethnicities.

Not all American citizens are ethnically American. Not all ethnic American heredity is Anglo Saxon, but it's a significant source. American as an ethnicity is a mixture of Europeans, just like English as an ethnicity was a mixture.

I am first generation. My parents are from Greece. My Dad was naturalized before I was born and my mother was not. Am I an American since my family is from Europe?


I'm just gonna popcorn this one.
There are in fact two things, science and opinion; the former begets knowledge, the later ignorance. Hippocrates
Zobel
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AG
You're ethnically Greek and an American citizen. Since you grew up here, you're probably culturally American. Do you disagree?

Me, I'm similar to you you. First generation on my mom's side (my grandparents were political asylees from socialism) and ??nth generation American on my father's. My dad's family has been in the US for so long there's no way to call them anything but American.

I'm also culturally American, specifically Texan, and an American citizen by birth.

This isn't like a crazy modern concept either... St Paul was a Jew, a Judean, born to the tribe of Benjamin, culturally Jewish but also lived in Tarsus (in modern day Turkey), and a Roman citizen by birth. Only a fool would say "St Paul was as Roman as Julius Caesar". He wasn't.

I am not sure why anyone would be offended by this?
deddog
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AG
Zobel said:

You're ethnically Greek and an American citizen. Since you grew up here, you're probably culturally American. Do you disagree?

Me, I'm similar to you you. First generation on my mom's side (my grandparents were political asylees from socialism) and ??nth generation American on my father's. My dad's family has been in the US for so long there's no way to call them anything but American.

I'm also culturally American, specifically Texan, and an American citizen by birth.

This isn't like a crazy modern concept either... St Paul was a Jew, a Judean, born to the tribe of Benjamin, culturally Jewish but also lived in Tarsus (in modern day Turkey), and a Roman citizen by birth. Only a fool would say "St Paul was as Roman as Julius Caesar". He wasn't.

I am not sure why anyone would be offended by this?

What does culturally American mean?
I mean if his parents were socialist (and remember, this is Greece) are you really culturally American?
Zobel
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AG
I know you're trying to be cute but I don't think this is some kind of gotcha.

I said he's probably culturally American, I have no idea because I don't know him. Many immigrants who are citizens are not.

Yeah, if you're a socialist you're not culturally American. Again, would anyone be offended by this? Our nation has no tradition of socialism.
Aggie97
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AG
Zobel said:

You're ethnically Greek and an American citizen. Since you grew up here, you're probably culturally American. Do you disagree?

Me, I'm similar to you you. First generation on my mom's side (my grandparents were political asylees from socialism) and ??nth generation American on my father's. My dad's family has been in the US for so long there's no way to call them anything but American.

I'm also culturally American, specifically Texan, and an American citizen by birth.

This isn't like a crazy modern concept either... St Paul was a Jew, a Judean, born to the tribe of Benjamin, culturally Jewish but also lived in Tarsus (in modern day Turkey), and a Roman citizen by birth. Only a fool would say "St Paul was as Roman as Julius Caesar". He wasn't.

I am not sure why anyone would be offended by this?


Not offended just getting clarification. You are correct I am for the most part culturally American and Texan. I do speak fluent Greek and I am proud of my Greek heritage but I am truly blessed to be born here in the United States and its greatest state.
infinity ag
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unclefish said:

That pic exactly represents foreigners overrunning the country. The fact that so many were let in is THE problem.

Be bold...why not just come out and say you want non-whites overrunning the country.


Read my posts. I make a lot of them on this issue.
I am for kicking out all H1Bs from the country. And 70% H1Bs are from India hence brown.

When we kick them out, we do not have foreigners changing the culture of this country.

I don't even blame the browns, I blame the whites for this calamity.
White Boomer Men.
It is Boomer white men who have been in positions of power who allowed browns to massage their massive egos and who allowed all these foreigners to come in. They are also afraid of being called racists.

Case in point, this clown.
deddog
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AG
Zobel said:

I know you're trying to be cute but I don't think this is some kind of gotcha.

I said he's probably culturally American, I have no idea because I don't know him. Many immigrants who are citizens are not.

Yeah, if you're a socialist you're not culturally American. Again, would anyone be offended by this? Our nation has no tradition of socialism.

I am not trying to be cute at all. Not a gotcha either.
I'm trying to understand what you mean by culturally American.

Because the kids in the original picture looked culturally American, nobody knew any of them, and yet many determined they were Indians playing American.

And my contention is that those kids are probably far more assimilated than folks who might have come from Canada or Europe. And certainly more than the Indians who were not at the game , because they have no interest in learning college football.
Zobel
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AG
Exactly. And you're probably Orthodox, like me.

Which places us a little distant from the US cultural inheritance (but probably a whole lot closer religiously to the faith of our founders than modern evanglicalism) as we're not Protestant.
Aggie97
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AG
deddog said:

Zobel said:

You're ethnically Greek and an American citizen. Since you grew up here, you're probably culturally American. Do you disagree?

Me, I'm similar to you you. First generation on my mom's side (my grandparents were political asylees from socialism) and ??nth generation American on my father's. My dad's family has been in the US for so long there's no way to call them anything but American.

I'm also culturally American, specifically Texan, and an American citizen by birth.

This isn't like a crazy modern concept either... St Paul was a Jew, a Judean, born to the tribe of Benjamin, culturally Jewish but also lived in Tarsus (in modern day Turkey), and a Roman citizen by birth. Only a fool would say "St Paul was as Roman as Julius Caesar". He wasn't.

I am not sure why anyone would be offended by this?

What does culturally American mean?
I mean if his parents were socialist (and remember, this is Greece) are you really culturally American?

My parents are/were not socialists. My father lived during the Greek Civil War he saw what the communists did to whole villages. He left Greece as a 21 year old man with $12 in his pocket and immigrated here in 1951 legally. Plus because the country has had leftist governments in the past does not mean everyone is a socialist. It is acutually run now by the Center Right party since 2019 and are favored to win again next year. Greece was ruled by right wing junta in the late 60's early 70's.
Zobel
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AG
They are (ethnic) Indians. They will never be (ethnic) Americans no matter how much culturally they are aligned with American culture (ie assimilated) or whether or no they are (civic) Americans with citizenship. The lack of precision on all of this is entirely the problem. You can't tell if someone is assimilated by whether they are wearing a tshirt at a football game. All of this is just feels and distraction.

Can you imagine if Indian immigration flipped Japan's demographics from where they are today to some prefecture in Japan having 22% of its school children ethnically Japanese? Would you castigate those Japanese people for being racist for saying "hey we don't like this, this is a problem"? And say well those Indian people are just as Japanese as you?
Aggie97
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AG
Zobel said:

Exactly. And you're probably Orthodox, like me.

Which places us a little distant from the US cultural inheritance (but probably a whole lot closer religiously to the faith of our founders than modern evanglicalism) as we're not Protestant.

Yes I am Orthodox. The fastest growing denomination in this country.
deddog
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AG
Aggie97 said:

deddog said:

Zobel said:

You're ethnically Greek and an American citizen. Since you grew up here, you're probably culturally American. Do you disagree?

Me, I'm similar to you you. First generation on my mom's side (my grandparents were political asylees from socialism) and ??nth generation American on my father's. My dad's family has been in the US for so long there's no way to call them anything but American.

I'm also culturally American, specifically Texan, and an American citizen by birth.

This isn't like a crazy modern concept either... St Paul was a Jew, a Judean, born to the tribe of Benjamin, culturally Jewish but also lived in Tarsus (in modern day Turkey), and a Roman citizen by birth. Only a fool would say "St Paul was as Roman as Julius Caesar". He wasn't.

I am not sure why anyone would be offended by this?

What does culturally American mean?
I mean if his parents were socialist (and remember, this is Greece) are you really culturally American?

My parents are/were not socialists. My father lived during the Greek Civil War he saw what the communists did to whole villages. He left Greece as a 21 year old man with $12 in his pocket and immigrated here in 1951 legally. Plus because the country has had leftist governments in the past does not mean everyone is a socialist. It is acutually run now by the Center Right party since 2019 and are favored to win again next year. Greece was ruled by right wing junta in the late 60's early 70's.

That part was in jest.
I didnt think a socialist would emigrate to the US prior to the 90 which is where i roughly had you.
ATX_AG_08
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AG


If you want to see how much our politicians have betrayed us, read this.
 
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