agracer said:

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AgE2theBONE said:

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cbr said:

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Chuck Cunningham said:

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Quote:

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what distinguishes love/altruism from self fulfillment is a valid question

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It's been argued many times, and I agree with it, is there really are no such things as pure altruism. Those give or do because of how it makes them feel.

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i disagree, but there obviously is a kernel of truth.

i still think the unselfish thing to do is stay alive an help, rather than 'here's a letter to someone'

that said, i hope i never have to find out which choice i would make.

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If you're choosing to stay alive to help others, you're doing it to satisfy your own sensibilities, your own conscience.

Everything we do is selfish, which is to say we do it for our own reasons, for whatever benefit we perceive.

There's a difference between stupid selfishness and smart selfishness, of course.

I've always found some negative attitudes toward suicide to be as selfish as such attitudes can get. Can't imagine being more selfish than wanting someone else to stay alive and suffer so that *you* don't feel bad. (Not talking about your post, speaking in general terms here. Rambling, in fact.)

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Many people who commit suicide are suffering emotionally, not physically. They can be helped and live a good life. It can destroy a family when someone commits suicide. So yes, it is selfish. You've obviously never known someone who committed suicide.

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Brian Earl Spilner said:

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Dude's on top of the world right now, and it seems like he can sleep with anyone he wanted, man or woman.

He gives very Keanu energy. It's impossible to dislike the guy.

Look no further than how warmly and how quickly he's been embraced by the Star Wars fandom. More so than anyone since the Disney acquisition, I would dare say.

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agracer said:

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Chuck Cunningham said:

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agracer said:

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AgE2theBONE said:

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cbr said:

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Chuck Cunningham said:

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Quote:

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what distinguishes love/altruism from self fulfillment is a valid question

---

It's been argued many times, and I agree with it, is there really are no such things as pure altruism. Those give or do because of how it makes them feel.

---

i disagree, but there obviously is a kernel of truth.

i still think the unselfish thing to do is stay alive an help, rather than 'here's a letter to someone'

that said, i hope i never have to find out which choice i would make.

---

If you're choosing to stay alive to help others, you're doing it to satisfy your own sensibilities, your own conscience.

Everything we do is selfish, which is to say we do it for our own reasons, for whatever benefit we perceive.

There's a difference between stupid selfishness and smart selfishness, of course.

I've always found some negative attitudes toward suicide to be as selfish as such attitudes can get. Can't imagine being more selfish than wanting someone else to stay alive and suffer so that *you* don't feel bad. (Not talking about your post, speaking in general terms here. Rambling, in fact.)

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Many people who commit suicide are suffering emotionally, not physically. They can be helped and live a good life. It can destroy a family when someone commits suicide. So yes, it is selfish. You've obviously never known someone who committed suicide.

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So, this post and my post will probably get deleted along with dozens of my others posts on this thread, so I hope you see it before it's deleted.

From the family's point of view and the outsiders point of view, this is correct. For the person that is commiting suicide, many times they have so much pain and their brain chemistry is so out of whack, they believe that they are doing the family a favor. This isn't true in all cases, but in many times it is.

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Oh, I understand that completely.

But they can get help and that help can make them see they are valuable and needed and the people around them do in fact love them.

No sure why this would get deleted though?

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agracer said:

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AggieOO said:

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agracer said:

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Chuck Cunningham said:

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agracer said:

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AgE2theBONE said:

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cbr said:

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Chuck Cunningham said:

---

Quote:

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what distinguishes love/altruism from self fulfillment is a valid question

---

It's been argued many times, and I agree with it, is there really are no such things as pure altruism. Those give or do because of how it makes them feel.

---

i disagree, but there obviously is a kernel of truth.

i still think the unselfish thing to do is stay alive an help, rather than 'here's a letter to someone'

that said, i hope i never have to find out which choice i would make.

---

If you're choosing to stay alive to help others, you're doing it to satisfy your own sensibilities, your own conscience.

Everything we do is selfish, which is to say we do it for our own reasons, for whatever benefit we perceive.

There's a difference between stupid selfishness and smart selfishness, of course.

I've always found some negative attitudes toward suicide to be as selfish as such attitudes can get. Can't imagine being more selfish than wanting someone else to stay alive and suffer so that *you* don't feel bad. (Not talking about your post, speaking in general terms here. Rambling, in fact.)

---

Many people who commit suicide are suffering emotionally, not physically. They can be helped and live a good life. It can destroy a family when someone commits suicide. So yes, it is selfish. You've obviously never known someone who committed suicide.

---

So, this post and my post will probably get deleted along with dozens of my others posts on this thread, so I hope you see it before it's deleted.

From the family's point of view and the outsiders point of view, this is correct. For the person that is commiting suicide, many times they have so much pain and their brain chemistry is so out of whack, they believe that they are doing the family a favor. This isn't true in all cases, but in many times it is.

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Oh, I understand that completely.

But they can get help and that help can make them see they are valuable and needed and the people around them do in fact love them.

No sure why this would get deleted though?

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So exactly where does Bill get help during a zombie apocolypse? At this point, he knows 3 people. One is his dying husband/partner. One is Tess, and she's dead. The third is Joel, who is taking Ellie west and looking for his brother. Also assume none of those people are equipped to help with a mental issue.

And if we are not talking about Bill's suicide, then the conversation needs to come to a close b/c it has nothing to do with the show.

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I think we deviated to discussing suicide and selfish in greater society, not context of the show.

Regarding the show, I think Bill committing suicide is completely out of character. He was pretty independent and self sufficient long before he met anyone after the SHTF in 2003. Hell, seems like he was pretty independent before 2003. IMO he would have soldiered on.

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boy09 said:

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agracer said:

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AggieOO said:

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agracer said:

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Chuck Cunningham said:

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agracer said:

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AgE2theBONE said:

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cbr said:

---

Chuck Cunningham said:

---

Quote:

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what distinguishes love/altruism from self fulfillment is a valid question

---

It's been argued many times, and I agree with it, is there really are no such things as pure altruism. Those give or do because of how it makes them feel.

---

i disagree, but there obviously is a kernel of truth.

i still think the unselfish thing to do is stay alive an help, rather than 'here's a letter to someone'

that said, i hope i never have to find out which choice i would make.

---

If you're choosing to stay alive to help others, you're doing it to satisfy your own sensibilities, your own conscience.

Everything we do is selfish, which is to say we do it for our own reasons, for whatever benefit we perceive.

There's a difference between stupid selfishness and smart selfishness, of course.

I've always found some negative attitudes toward suicide to be as selfish as such attitudes can get. Can't imagine being more selfish than wanting someone else to stay alive and suffer so that *you* don't feel bad. (Not talking about your post, speaking in general terms here. Rambling, in fact.)

---

Many people who commit suicide are suffering emotionally, not physically. They can be helped and live a good life. It can destroy a family when someone commits suicide. So yes, it is selfish. You've obviously never known someone who committed suicide.

---

So, this post and my post will probably get deleted along with dozens of my others posts on this thread, so I hope you see it before it's deleted.

From the family's point of view and the outsiders point of view, this is correct. For the person that is commiting suicide, many times they have so much pain and their brain chemistry is so out of whack, they believe that they are doing the family a favor. This isn't true in all cases, but in many times it is.

---

Oh, I understand that completely.

But they can get help and that help can make them see they are valuable and needed and the people around them do in fact love them.

No sure why this would get deleted though?

---

So exactly where does Bill get help during a zombie apocolypse? At this point, he knows 3 people. One is his dying husband/partner. One is Tess, and she's dead. The third is Joel, who is taking Ellie west and looking for his brother. Also assume none of those people are equipped to help with a mental issue.

And if we are not talking about Bill's suicide, then the conversation needs to come to a close b/c it has nothing to do with the show.

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I think we deviated to discussing suicide and selfish in greater society, not context of the show.

Regarding the show, I think Bill committing suicide is completely out of character. He was pretty independent and self sufficient long before he met anyone after the SHTF in 2003. Hell, seems like he was pretty independent before 2003. IMO he would have soldiered on.

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He CHANGED after 17 years of life with Frank. He was old and didn't want to carry on any longer without his partner.

I swear, this thread makes me feel like i'm watching a completely different show than some of you...

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boy09 said:

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People here would just disagree with the show runners

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Head Ninja In Charge said:

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boy09 said:

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People here would just disagree with the show runners

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I think someone posted on the other page complaining about the the showrunners taking too many liberties with the source material while ignoring the fact that one of the two primary showrunners is the actual game creator.

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Head Ninja In Charge said:

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one of the two primary showrunners is the actual game creator.

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Brian Earl Spilner said:

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Dude's on top of the world right now, and it seems like he can sleep with anyone he wanted, man or woman.

He gives very Keanu energy. It's impossible to dislike the guy.

Look no further than how warmly and how quickly he's been embraced by the Star Wars fandom. More so than anyone since the Disney acquisition, I would dare say.

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combat wombat said:

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Just finished episode 3. Loved Bill's character.

I didn't so much mind the homosexual relationship as the "bedroom scenes". I fast forward through them. FTR, I feel/do the same about/ with heterosexual BR scenes. I don't care for them. You can show me a loving relationship without that.

I could do without the "adult language", too, but I'm pretty sure it would be unrealistic in that environment to not have it.

The bone pit was especially poignant with the flashback and the explanation that the military killed healthy people when there was no room at QZ.

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