*** THE LAST OF US *** (Non-Gamer Thread)

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In reply to Robert C. Christian • 10:02a, 1/30/23
AG
Robert C. Christian said:
fav13andac1)c said:
aTmAg said:
joerobert_pete06 said:
aTmAg said:
Now that they explained the source of the 80s music, is there any other big unexplained things left?


Good point, something other than the fact that they were committing suicide?
I think the show made it clear that it started playing 80s music because the computer timed out and nobody was there to reset the playlist (or something like that). So I think it's nothing more than a notification that they are dead.


Yes, exactly. The '80s message was playing over the radio in the first episode so Joel and Ellie both knew something had gone down already.
Yes, but it started playing after they left the QZ. They didn't know anything was wrong because of that.


Looks like I misremembered. Thanks all for the correction.
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cajunaggie08
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In reply to Definitely Not A Cop • 10:08a, 1/30/23
AG
Definitely Not A Cop said:
Regardless of them being gay and how great the episode was, watching Ron Swanson making out with a homeless person was not how I was expecting to spend my Sunday evening.

Before it started, I had no idea if I was picking up romantic, murderous, or zombie vibes from the guy, but I knew something big was about to go down.
The first thing my wife said when Bill poured the first bottle of wine to Frank was they're gonna become gay lovers. I laughed thinking she was being silly and I was still pretty sure one was going to kill the other shortly. Turned out she was spot on.
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WES2006AG
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In reply to cbr • 10:11a, 1/30/23
AG
cbr said:
TCTTS said:
I don't see you in any other threads questioning why *heterosexual* relationships are depicted in other shows/movies, as a means to establish bonds between those characters? So why does it matter here, in this instance, just because it's two men? Who cares? Regardless of gender, it was emotional, powerful, and thematically resonant in a way that helped to further seal the bond between Joel and Ellie, as well as our attachment to them. I explained why it all moved me so much in an earlier post, and I just can't imagine giving two sh*ts whether it was a heterosexual or homosexual relationship that got me there.

Also… it's HBO. I don't know who, exactly, you think their target audience is. Depiction of this sort is par for the course.
It could have been well done, and almost was. Why every show has to go all out to push homosexuality when it represents, what, 2% - 5% of the population cannot help but detract from entertainment - entertainment being the supposed purpose of this show, not indoctrination.

Hey hollywood-we dont care what you like to ****.

Ok, so the audience ignores that, and just buys in that when 99% of people are dead, two of the 2%'rs find each other.

Fine.

At this point that plot line was just a moment of detraction from the story…

'ffs, more gay agenda bull**** being forced on us…everywhere, all the time…eye roll…turn it off? No, its a cool show…ok, so now back to the episode and enjoy it.'

Whether they are gay or not has nothing to do with the emotional purpose of the episode.

It could still have been a very powerful and enjoyable emotional story…but no, they have to push their bull**** even further, filming these guys all over each other.

That ranges from offensive, to unpleasant, to irrelevant to more than 95% of the audience. It doesnt do anything but push the agenda/ego of whoever wrote this episode at the expense of a good story.

I still liked the episode, overall, but dont defend this political bull***** Its indefensible and you cant expect rational, free thinking people to just take constant political indoctrination without comment.

This is what being triggered looks like. Good god that was a funny read.
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32
Ghost of Bisbee
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10:12a, 1/30/23
AG
This thread turned from bad to worse

No one here is debating homo vs hetero, which a lot here are clearly triggered by
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cbr
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In reply to WES2006AG • 10:15a, 1/30/23
AG
WES2006AG said:
cbr said:
TCTTS said:
I don't see you in any other threads questioning why *heterosexual* relationships are depicted in other shows/movies, as a means to establish bonds between those characters? So why does it matter here, in this instance, just because it's two men? Who cares? Regardless of gender, it was emotional, powerful, and thematically resonant in a way that helped to further seal the bond between Joel and Ellie, as well as our attachment to them. I explained why it all moved me so much in an earlier post, and I just can't imagine giving two sh*ts whether it was a heterosexual or homosexual relationship that got me there.

Also… it's HBO. I don't know who, exactly, you think their target audience is. Depiction of this sort is par for the course.
It could have been well done, and almost was. Why every show has to go all out to push homosexuality when it represents, what, 2% - 5% of the population cannot help but detract from entertainment - entertainment being the supposed purpose of this show, not indoctrination.

Hey hollywood-we dont care what you like to ****.

Ok, so the audience ignores that, and just buys in that when 99% of people are dead, two of the 2%'rs find each other.

Fine.

At this point that plot line was just a moment of detraction from the story…

'ffs, more gay agenda bull**** being forced on us…everywhere, all the time…eye roll…turn it off? No, its a cool show…ok, so now back to the episode and enjoy it.'

Whether they are gay or not has nothing to do with the emotional purpose of the episode.

It could still have been a very powerful and enjoyable emotional story…but no, they have to push their bull**** even further, filming these guys all over each other.

That ranges from offensive, to unpleasant, to irrelevant to more than 95% of the audience. It doesnt do anything but push the agenda/ego of whoever wrote this episode at the expense of a good story.

I still liked the episode, overall, but dont defend this political bull***** Its indefensible and you cant expect rational, free thinking people to just take constant political indoctrination without comment.

This is what being triggered looks like. Good god that was a funny read.
Lol you missed the point.
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docb
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In reply to WES2006AG • 10:15a, 1/30/23
AG
WES2006AG said:
cbr said:
TCTTS said:
I don't see you in any other threads questioning why *heterosexual* relationships are depicted in other shows/movies, as a means to establish bonds between those characters? So why does it matter here, in this instance, just because it's two men? Who cares? Regardless of gender, it was emotional, powerful, and thematically resonant in a way that helped to further seal the bond between Joel and Ellie, as well as our attachment to them. I explained why it all moved me so much in an earlier post, and I just can't imagine giving two sh*ts whether it was a heterosexual or homosexual relationship that got me there.

Also… it's HBO. I don't know who, exactly, you think their target audience is. Depiction of this sort is par for the course.
It could have been well done, and almost was. Why every show has to go all out to push homosexuality when it represents, what, 2% - 5% of the population cannot help but detract from entertainment - entertainment being the supposed purpose of this show, not indoctrination.

Hey hollywood-we dont care what you like to ****.

Ok, so the audience ignores that, and just buys in that when 99% of people are dead, two of the 2%'rs find each other.

Fine.

At this point that plot line was just a moment of detraction from the story…

'ffs, more gay agenda bull**** being forced on us…everywhere, all the time…eye roll…turn it off? No, its a cool show…ok, so now back to the episode and enjoy it.'

Whether they are gay or not has nothing to do with the emotional purpose of the episode.

It could still have been a very powerful and enjoyable emotional story…but no, they have to push their bull**** even further, filming these guys all over each other.

That ranges from offensive, to unpleasant, to irrelevant to more than 95% of the audience. It doesnt do anything but push the agenda/ego of whoever wrote this episode at the expense of a good story.

I still liked the episode, overall, but dont defend this political bull***** Its indefensible and you cant expect rational, free thinking people to just take constant political indoctrination without comment.

This is what being triggered looks like. Good god that was a funny read.
It's true though. They go out of their way to insert homosexuality in a lot of stuff these days. I mean I get that it's out there but it's just over the top with TV/movies these days.
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cbr
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In reply to Head Ninja In Charge • 10:17a, 1/30/23
AG
Lol, i knew you turn out wrong on that, too.
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Ghost of Bisbee
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10:30a, 1/30/23
AG
On the gay portrayal, source material depicts these characters as gay. If the showrunners change that, it's petty and not a strong enough reason to "improve" the show for a target audience
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barbacoa taco
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In reply to cajunaggie08 • 10:33a, 1/30/23
AG
cajunaggie08 said:
Definitely Not A Cop said:
Regardless of them being gay and how great the episode was, watching Ron Swanson making out with a homeless person was not how I was expecting to spend my Sunday evening.

Before it started, I had no idea if I was picking up romantic, murderous, or zombie vibes from the guy, but I knew something big was about to go down.
The first thing my wife said when Bill poured the first bottle of wine to Frank was they're gonna become gay lovers. I laughed thinking she was being silly and I was still pretty sure one was going to kill the other shortly. Turned out she was spot on.
I thought they were both treating it like a "date" being that neither had interacted with another human being for years, so it was incredibly refreshing to have some real interaction. Did not expect it to turn into a love story. Though as others have pointed out, Bill is gay in the game, though the story plays out differently.
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aTmAg
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In reply to WES2006AG • 10:41a, 1/30/23
AG
WES2006AG said:
cbr said:
TCTTS said:
I don't see you in any other threads questioning why *heterosexual* relationships are depicted in other shows/movies, as a means to establish bonds between those characters? So why does it matter here, in this instance, just because it's two men? Who cares? Regardless of gender, it was emotional, powerful, and thematically resonant in a way that helped to further seal the bond between Joel and Ellie, as well as our attachment to them. I explained why it all moved me so much in an earlier post, and I just can't imagine giving two sh*ts whether it was a heterosexual or homosexual relationship that got me there.

Also… it's HBO. I don't know who, exactly, you think their target audience is. Depiction of this sort is par for the course.
It could have been well done, and almost was. Why every show has to go all out to push homosexuality when it represents, what, 2% - 5% of the population cannot help but detract from entertainment - entertainment being the supposed purpose of this show, not indoctrination.

Hey hollywood-we dont care what you like to ****.

Ok, so the audience ignores that, and just buys in that when 99% of people are dead, two of the 2%'rs find each other.

Fine.

At this point that plot line was just a moment of detraction from the story…

'ffs, more gay agenda bull**** being forced on us…everywhere, all the time…eye roll…turn it off? No, its a cool show…ok, so now back to the episode and enjoy it.'

Whether they are gay or not has nothing to do with the emotional purpose of the episode.

It could still have been a very powerful and enjoyable emotional story…but no, they have to push their bull**** even further, filming these guys all over each other.

That ranges from offensive, to unpleasant, to irrelevant to more than 95% of the audience. It doesnt do anything but push the agenda/ego of whoever wrote this episode at the expense of a good story.

I still liked the episode, overall, but dont defend this political bull***** Its indefensible and you cant expect rational, free thinking people to just take constant political indoctrination without comment.

This is what being triggered looks like. Good god that was a funny read.
You celebrating is proving his point. You are only okay with this because you are liberal and they are pushing your agenda. If this show instead decided to interject an anti-abortion story line and showed a dismembered aborted baby, you would be all over here complaining how that had no place in this show. And you would be right.. Because neither have a place in a zombie show.

People don't watch zombie shows to watch bearded middle aged men go down on each other. We wouldn't want to see a fat middle aged hetro couple go down on each other either. Even though that happens way more often. If I wanted to see either, I'd go watch a middle aged rom-com. One may say, "but there aren't many of those." To that I would say "exactly". There isn't much of a demand for either. So then why surprise interject it into a show that people watch for other reasons? Clearly, it's because they already have captive audience that they can force to watch crap they weren't bargaining for.

People are right to be annoyed by that.
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AggieOO
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10:45a, 1/30/23
as soon as I watched the episode last night, i knew how this thread was going to go...and i laughed. Still am. Lots of people who have been calling other snowflakes for years need to take a look in the mirror. Also, comically, i'm sure if Bill and Frank were hot women, I'd guess there'd be very few complaints about "pushing a gay agenda."



But as far as the actual episode. I definitely wasn't expecting that episode, but it was fantastic. Initially didn't see the gay relationship coming, but definitely had an eyebrow raised the more interaction Frank and Bill had.

There were definitely a few "yeah right" moments in the episode, but I do find it interesting that some are complaining about dedicating an entire episode to this and it not "advancing" the plot. However, usually with these types of shows people are making complaints like, "yeah right, how'd they get X? Like there would really be a vehicle they'd find! How do they have electricity. I'M ANGRY BC THEY DIDN'T GIVE US ENOUGH INFO!!!!" They took an episode to very carefully show how Joel and Ellie end up with supplies and a truck, while telling/showing a side of a zombie apocolypse that most shows never would, and people are complaining.

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91_Aggie
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In reply to cajunaggie08 • 10:47a, 1/30/23
AG
cajunaggie08 said:
Definitely Not A Cop said:
Regardless of them being gay and how great the episode was, watching Ron Swanson making out with a homeless person was not how I was expecting to spend my Sunday evening.

Before it started, I had no idea if I was picking up romantic, murderous, or zombie vibes from the guy, but I knew something big was about to go down.
The first thing my wife said when Bill poured the first bottle of wine to Frank was they're gonna become gay lovers. I laughed thinking she was being silly and I was still pretty sure one was going to kill the other shortly. Turned out she was spot on.


I thought the same thing (going to be gay lovers) but it was when he was bringing the clothes to him in the bedroom
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AggieOO
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10:50a, 1/30/23
Quote:
If this show instead decided to interject an anti-abortion story line and showed a dismembered aborted baby, you would be all over here complaining how that had no place in this show. And you would be right.. Because neither have a place in a zombie show.

are you really trying to compare an aborted fetus to a gay couple? these two things are not even remotely the same. And if you can't understand why, I'm not sure what to tell you.

Quote:
People don't watch zombie shows to watch bearded middle aged men go down on each other. We wouldn't want to see a fat middle aged hetro couple go down on each other either.

No, most people don't want to watch a fat middle aged couple either, but if that had happened, there would be zero complaints because it would be a hetero couple. Your argument holds zero water. The disgust around here is 100% because it was a gay couple.
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Cave Johnson, CEO
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10:51a, 1/30/23
AG
This game came out 10 years ago and the characters were gay then. The show simply changed how their relationship played out (died together happy vs bitter and apart) and how Joel and Ellie interact with Bill. How is any part of the episode pushing an agenda?

I'm not a liberal and I think there are plenty of shows that have definitely got the "woke" treatment but this one ain't it.
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Robert C. Christian
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In reply to aTmAg • 10:55a, 1/30/23
AG
aTmAg said:
WES2006AG said:
cbr said:
TCTTS said:
I don't see you in any other threads questioning why *heterosexual* relationships are depicted in other shows/movies, as a means to establish bonds between those characters? So why does it matter here, in this instance, just because it's two men? Who cares? Regardless of gender, it was emotional, powerful, and thematically resonant in a way that helped to further seal the bond between Joel and Ellie, as well as our attachment to them. I explained why it all moved me so much in an earlier post, and I just can't imagine giving two sh*ts whether it was a heterosexual or homosexual relationship that got me there.

Also… it's HBO. I don't know who, exactly, you think their target audience is. Depiction of this sort is par for the course.
It could have been well done, and almost was. Why every show has to go all out to push homosexuality when it represents, what, 2% - 5% of the population cannot help but detract from entertainment - entertainment being the supposed purpose of this show, not indoctrination.

Hey hollywood-we dont care what you like to ****.

Ok, so the audience ignores that, and just buys in that when 99% of people are dead, two of the 2%'rs find each other.

Fine.

At this point that plot line was just a moment of detraction from the story…

'ffs, more gay agenda bull**** being forced on us…everywhere, all the time…eye roll…turn it off? No, its a cool show…ok, so now back to the episode and enjoy it.'

Whether they are gay or not has nothing to do with the emotional purpose of the episode.

It could still have been a very powerful and enjoyable emotional story…but no, they have to push their bull**** even further, filming these guys all over each other.

That ranges from offensive, to unpleasant, to irrelevant to more than 95% of the audience. It doesnt do anything but push the agenda/ego of whoever wrote this episode at the expense of a good story.

I still liked the episode, overall, but dont defend this political bull***** Its indefensible and you cant expect rational, free thinking people to just take constant political indoctrination without comment.

This is what being triggered looks like. Good god that was a funny read.
We wouldn't want to see a fat middle aged hetro couple go down on each other either. Even though that happens way more often.
Obviously you aren't married.
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aTmAg
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In reply to AggieOO • 11:04a, 1/30/23
AG
AggieOO said:
as soon as I watched the episode last night, i knew how this thread was going to go...and i laughed. Still am. Lots of people who have been calling other snowflakes for years need to take a look in the mirror. Also, comically, i'm sure if Bill and Frank were hot women, I'd guess there'd be very few complaints about "pushing a gay agenda."
The complaint isn't about seeing the "gay agenda". It's about being surprised with seeing ugly ass people in bed (which happened because the producers were pushing their gay agenda). We would be complaining if they were ugly fat ass lesbians or an ugly hetro couple for that matter. I don't usually watch shows so that I can see ugly ass people. I see that every day in real life. I watch shows to see things I don't see every day. If the producers concentrated less on pushing agendas and more on telling the best story possible, then the show would be better.
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aTmAg
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In reply to Robert C. Christian • 11:04a, 1/30/23
AG
Robert C. Christian said:
aTmAg said:
WES2006AG said:
cbr said:
TCTTS said:
I don't see you in any other threads questioning why *heterosexual* relationships are depicted in other shows/movies, as a means to establish bonds between those characters? So why does it matter here, in this instance, just because it's two men? Who cares? Regardless of gender, it was emotional, powerful, and thematically resonant in a way that helped to further seal the bond between Joel and Ellie, as well as our attachment to them. I explained why it all moved me so much in an earlier post, and I just can't imagine giving two sh*ts whether it was a heterosexual or homosexual relationship that got me there.

Also… it's HBO. I don't know who, exactly, you think their target audience is. Depiction of this sort is par for the course.
It could have been well done, and almost was. Why every show has to go all out to push homosexuality when it represents, what, 2% - 5% of the population cannot help but detract from entertainment - entertainment being the supposed purpose of this show, not indoctrination.

Hey hollywood-we dont care what you like to ****.

Ok, so the audience ignores that, and just buys in that when 99% of people are dead, two of the 2%'rs find each other.

Fine.

At this point that plot line was just a moment of detraction from the story…

'ffs, more gay agenda bull**** being forced on us…everywhere, all the time…eye roll…turn it off? No, its a cool show…ok, so now back to the episode and enjoy it.'

Whether they are gay or not has nothing to do with the emotional purpose of the episode.

It could still have been a very powerful and enjoyable emotional story…but no, they have to push their bull**** even further, filming these guys all over each other.

That ranges from offensive, to unpleasant, to irrelevant to more than 95% of the audience. It doesnt do anything but push the agenda/ego of whoever wrote this episode at the expense of a good story.

I still liked the episode, overall, but dont defend this political bull***** Its indefensible and you cant expect rational, free thinking people to just take constant political indoctrination without comment.

This is what being triggered looks like. Good god that was a funny read.
We wouldn't want to see a fat middle aged hetro couple go down on each other either. Even though that happens way more often.
Obviously you aren't married.
Clearly, I was talking fat ass middle aged UNMARRIED couples. That goes without saying.
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AgE2theBONE
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11:06a, 1/30/23
AG
I couldn't agree more that we get bombarded with "diversity" for diversity's sake and that it detracts from enjoyment of a movie/series. I was watching The Hollow Crown series of Shakespeare plays, and they were so fantastic, but I hated having Sophie Okenedo cast as Margaret of Anjou because the daughter of the King of Naples and daughter of the Duchess of Lorainne was not fracking black. I hate that crap. The same is done with gay/trans characters and I understand/empathize with why people hate it.


In no way, for a single moment, did I feel this episode was an exercise in that. It was superbly written and acted, and 100% believable as two middle aged guys, who happen to be gay, are blessed to find one another in a post-apocalyptic setting and manage to wrest a meaningful and fulfilling life together despite the collapse of everything they knew.

We don't need anymore stories about people fighting zombies. But stories that focus on how an individual or individuals bond with each other and persevere to not merely exist but love each other and continue to find beauty in what they can is so damn refreshing.

I can't relate to finding another man sexually/romantically attractive. But I can empathize with having no control over who I actually DO find attractive or fall in love with, so I easily related to Frank and Bill.

That was an exceptionally good episode of television.
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WES2006AG
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11:07a, 1/30/23
AG
I can't tell if this thread is getting better or worse by the week but I love it almost as much as the show.

Well done TexAgs.
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AggieOO
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In reply to aTmAg • 11:10a, 1/30/23
aTmAg said:
AggieOO said:
as soon as I watched the episode last night, i knew how this thread was going to go...and i laughed. Still am. Lots of people who have been calling other snowflakes for years need to take a look in the mirror. Also, comically, i'm sure if Bill and Frank were hot women, I'd guess there'd be very few complaints about "pushing a gay agenda."
The complaint isn't about seeing the "gay agenda". It's about being surprised with seeing ugly ass people in bed (which happened because the producers were pushing their gay agenda). We would be complaining if they were ugly fat ass lesbians or an ugly hetro couple for that matter. I don't usually watch shows so that I can see ugly ass people. I see that every day in real life. I watch shows to see things I don't see every day. If the producers concentrated less on pushing agendas and more on telling the best story possible, then the show would be better.
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AgE2theBONE
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11:11a, 1/30/23
AG

Speaking of Shakespeare and black actors playing white characters, I have to confess that even though I hate that kind of thing, I loved every second of Denzel Washington playing Don Pedro, Prince of Aragon, in Much Ado About Nothing.

He knocked it out of the park, and his delivery of Shakespeare's dialogue was so smooth it was like butter.

So even casting the wrong race for a particular character can work if the actor is up to it.
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AggieOO
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In reply to aTmAg • 11:11a, 1/30/23
aTmAg said:
AggieOO said:
as soon as I watched the episode last night, i knew how this thread was going to go...and i laughed. Still am. Lots of people who have been calling other snowflakes for years need to take a look in the mirror. Also, comically, i'm sure if Bill and Frank were hot women, I'd guess there'd be very few complaints about "pushing a gay agenda."
The complaint isn't about seeing the "gay agenda". It's about being surprised with seeing ugly ass people in bed (which happened because the producers were pushing their gay agenda). We would be complaining if they were ugly fat ass lesbians or an ugly hetro couple for that matter. I don't usually watch shows so that I can see ugly ass people. I see that every day in real life. I watch shows to see things I don't see every day. If the producers concentrated less on pushing agendas and more on telling the best story possible, then the show would be better.
so you see middle aged white bearded dudes bang every day?
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jokershady
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In reply to cajunaggie08 • 11:12a, 1/30/23
AG
cajunaggie08 said:
DallasTeleAg said:
Lol. It's been 3 episodes and yet so many people can't get their facts straight.

The Depeche Mode song started playing after they had already left Boston. We saw it in a clip where the camera is back in Joel's house and the radio turns on and starts playing. Ellie lied about hearing 80's music earlier in the episode.

Also, I don't know why some people have such a problem with other people who don't want to watch gay sex on screen. Call it "clutching pearls" or whatever you want. Some of us just don't like watching gay sex. If you enjoy that sort of thing, then good on you.

Like I said in my original post, I skipped through those scenes because seeing two bearded dudes kiss and and be intimate in bed gives me the creeps. Do I have a problem with them both being gay and the show portraying a 16 year relationship? Not at all. I really liked the episode.
Then do what my parents did when any sex scene came on the screen when I was little and have someone cover your eyes. its not like you saw any ass or shaft anyways. They was just smoochin naked.
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AgE2theBONE
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In reply to AggieOO • 11:15a, 1/30/23
AG
AggieOO said:
aTmAg said:
AggieOO said:
as soon as I watched the episode last night, i knew how this thread was going to go...and i laughed. Still am. Lots of people who have been calling other snowflakes for years need to take a look in the mirror. Also, comically, i'm sure if Bill and Frank were hot women, I'd guess there'd be very few complaints about "pushing a gay agenda."
The complaint isn't about seeing the "gay agenda". It's about being surprised with seeing ugly ass people in bed (which happened because the producers were pushing their gay agenda). We would be complaining if they were ugly fat ass lesbians or an ugly hetro couple for that matter. I don't usually watch shows so that I can see ugly ass people. I see that every day in real life. I watch shows to see things I don't see every day. If the producers concentrated less on pushing agendas and more on telling the best story possible, then the show would be better.
so you see middle aged white bearded dudes bang every day?

He said "things I *don't* see every day."

Every single of instance of homosexual relationships in film/tv is not an agenda. A ton of it is. This wasn't the case last night. The characters from the game were gay. If they'd changed that, then it actually would have been an agenda.

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aTmAg
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In reply to AggieOO • 11:17a, 1/30/23
AG
AggieOO said:
aTmAg said:
AggieOO said:
as soon as I watched the episode last night, i knew how this thread was going to go...and i laughed. Still am. Lots of people who have been calling other snowflakes for years need to take a look in the mirror. Also, comically, i'm sure if Bill and Frank were hot women, I'd guess there'd be very few complaints about "pushing a gay agenda."
The complaint isn't about seeing the "gay agenda". It's about being surprised with seeing ugly ass people in bed (which happened because the producers were pushing their gay agenda). We would be complaining if they were ugly fat ass lesbians or an ugly hetro couple for that matter. I don't usually watch shows so that I can see ugly ass people. I see that every day in real life. I watch shows to see things I don't see every day. If the producers concentrated less on pushing agendas and more on telling the best story possible, then the show would be better.
I guess you don't have an actual retort?
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aTmAg
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In reply to AggieOO • 11:18a, 1/30/23
AG
AggieOO said:
aTmAg said:
AggieOO said:
as soon as I watched the episode last night, i knew how this thread was going to go...and i laughed. Still am. Lots of people who have been calling other snowflakes for years need to take a look in the mirror. Also, comically, i'm sure if Bill and Frank were hot women, I'd guess there'd be very few complaints about "pushing a gay agenda."
The complaint isn't about seeing the "gay agenda". It's about being surprised with seeing ugly ass people in bed (which happened because the producers were pushing their gay agenda). We would be complaining if they were ugly fat ass lesbians or an ugly hetro couple for that matter. I don't usually watch shows so that I can see ugly ass people. I see that every day in real life. I watch shows to see things I don't see every day. If the producers concentrated less on pushing agendas and more on telling the best story possible, then the show would be better.
so you see middle aged white bearded dudes bang every day?
No, that sentence was clearly referring to the one right before it. That video you posted clearly applies better to you.
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FtWorthHorn
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11:19a, 1/30/23
One addition to this...fine discourse is that I don't think Bill being gay is tangential/a random addition. Bill was deeply, profoundly alone. And that didn't just start with the zombie outbreak. Was being a closeted gay man part of what drove him to be a prepper, as he didn't feel connected to society?

Who knows, but he thought he had made his peace with his solitary lifestyle. In fact, he was almost giddy in his post-outbreak preparation. He seemed to be enjoying his life watching the traps work. But once another person came into his life, it became clear it was empty because it didn't have a purpose (hence the letter).

You could tell a similar story if it's a woman, but there are so many differences. First, it's far less threatening when the new person first arrives. And second, you lose the built-in shorthand of the isolation that we understand when we learn Bill has never been with a man. That short conversation tells you about a lifetime of isolation.
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aTmAg
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In reply to FtWorthHorn • 11:22a, 1/30/23
AG
FtWorthHorn said:
One addition to this...fine discourse is that I don't think Bill being gay is tangential/a random addition. Bill was deeply, profoundly alone. And that didn't just start with the zombie outbreak. Was being a closeted gay man part of what drove him to be a prepper, as he didn't feel connected to society?

Who knows, but he thought he had made his peace with his solitary lifestyle. In fact, he was almost giddy in his post-outbreak preparation. He seemed to be enjoying his life watching the traps work. But once another person came into his life, it became clear it was empty because it didn't have a purpose (hence the letter).

You could tell a similar story if it's a woman, but there are so many differences. First, it's far less threatening when the new person first arrives. And second, you lose the built-in shorthand of the isolation that we understand when we learn Bill has never been with a man. That short conversation tells you about a lifetime of isolation.
If I remember correctly, Bill mentioned or implied had a woman prior. He also had pictures of family and stuff. So it wasn't a lifetime of isolation.
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FtWorthHorn
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In reply to aTmAg • 11:24a, 1/30/23
aTmAg said:
FtWorthHorn said:
One addition to this...fine discourse is that I don't think Bill being gay is tangential/a random addition. Bill was deeply, profoundly alone. And that didn't just start with the zombie outbreak. Was being a closeted gay man part of what drove him to be a prepper, as he didn't feel connected to society?

Who knows, but he thought he had made his peace with his solitary lifestyle. In fact, he was almost giddy in his post-outbreak preparation. He seemed to be enjoying his life watching the traps work. But once another person came into his life, it became clear it was empty because it didn't have a purpose (hence the letter).

You could tell a similar story if it's a woman, but there are so many differences. First, it's far less threatening when the new person first arrives. And second, you lose the built-in shorthand of the isolation that we understand when we learn Bill has never been with a man. That short conversation tells you about a lifetime of isolation.
If I remember correctly, Bill mentioned or implied had a woman prior. He also had pictures of family and stuff. So it wasn't a lifetime of isolation.
It absolutely was. He said he had been with a few women. And he lived with his mother, for at least some of his adult life.

Read that back and try to think through what his life was like.
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Head Ninja In Charge
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In reply to FtWorthHorn • 11:30a, 1/30/23
AG
Nailed it.
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AgE2theBONE
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In reply to aTmAg • 11:31a, 1/30/23
AG
aTmAg said:
FtWorthHorn said:
One addition to this...fine discourse is that I don't think Bill being gay is tangential/a random addition. Bill was deeply, profoundly alone. And that didn't just start with the zombie outbreak. Was being a closeted gay man part of what drove him to be a prepper, as he didn't feel connected to society?

Who knows, but he thought he had made his peace with his solitary lifestyle. In fact, he was almost giddy in his post-outbreak preparation. He seemed to be enjoying his life watching the traps work. But once another person came into his life, it became clear it was empty because it didn't have a purpose (hence the letter).

You could tell a similar story if it's a woman, but there are so many differences. First, it's far less threatening when the new person first arrives. And second, you lose the built-in shorthand of the isolation that we understand when we learn Bill has never been with a man. That short conversation tells you about a lifetime of isolation.
If I remember correctly, Bill mentioned or implied had a woman prior. He also had pictures of family and stuff. So it wasn't a lifetime of isolation.

One can feel completely isolated in a crowd of a million.

Clearly Bill had never been able to experience the kind of emotional bond/connection with another human being in a way that we take for granted. He was a gay man in a small town, and he was old enough that for most of his life he would have felt like a complete outcast because he couldn't be himself in an environment like that.

There was a gay dude in my class in Mexia TX back in the 80's, and even though he never acknowledged it, he was so pathetically mistreated and ridiculed in that small town that I can't imagine how lonely he really was.
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Ghost of Bisbee
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In reply to TCTTS • 11:33a, 1/30/23
AG
TCTTS said:


2) I was pleasantly surprised to discover this thread wasn't nearly as bad as I was expecting.


Lol you spoke too soon
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FtWorthHorn
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In reply to BowSowy • 11:34a, 1/30/23
BowSowy said:
joerobert_pete06 said:
I found myself fast forwarding through several portions of that episode. I feel like most of that was unnecessary and put there for an alternative purpose.
This reminds me of the episode that Mythic Quest has every season. One episode that tells a bit of backstory but expands on it in a grand way. Sure, it's largely irrelevant to the overarching story, and could've just been a couple of scenes. But it expands on that and tells a great story. I knew the gay aspect of that story would not be well received here, but I think that was a beautiful story of a love grown old.
It will not surprise you to know that the author of "Backstory!" the one about CW, is...Craig Mazin.
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aTmAg
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In reply to FtWorthHorn • 11:41a, 1/30/23
AG
FtWorthHorn said:
aTmAg said:
FtWorthHorn said:
One addition to this...fine discourse is that I don't think Bill being gay is tangential/a random addition. Bill was deeply, profoundly alone. And that didn't just start with the zombie outbreak. Was being a closeted gay man part of what drove him to be a prepper, as he didn't feel connected to society?

Who knows, but he thought he had made his peace with his solitary lifestyle. In fact, he was almost giddy in his post-outbreak preparation. He seemed to be enjoying his life watching the traps work. But once another person came into his life, it became clear it was empty because it didn't have a purpose (hence the letter).

You could tell a similar story if it's a woman, but there are so many differences. First, it's far less threatening when the new person first arrives. And second, you lose the built-in shorthand of the isolation that we understand when we learn Bill has never been with a man. That short conversation tells you about a lifetime of isolation.
If I remember correctly, Bill mentioned or implied had a woman prior. He also had pictures of family and stuff. So it wasn't a lifetime of isolation.
It absolutely was. He said he had been with a few women. And he lived with his mother, for at least some of his adult life.

Read that back and try to think through what his life was like.
My grandmother spent her last few years living with my parents. That sort of thing happens all the time. That statement alone doesn't necessarily mean a life of isolation. Now clearly he was alone when the outbreak happened and for years after. But not any more than people all across the globe in that world.

But I think the points you bring up would be more effective with a woman companion than a man. Bill clearly felt like he needed to protect Frank which is why he told Frank to contact Joel when he thought he (Bill) was dying. That would have been even more profound if Frank was a female or a kid. The way it played out in the show fell flat for me. Since, Frank was already out alone in the wilderness for years. Clearly he could already handle himself pretty well.

The point about being threatening when Frank first arrives was basically moot. They made that point far better by the raiders (and Joel predicting it).
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Brian Earl Spilner
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In reply to AggieOO • 11:47a, 1/30/23
AG
AggieOO said:
aTmAg said:
AggieOO said:
as soon as I watched the episode last night, i knew how this thread was going to go...and i laughed. Still am. Lots of people who have been calling other snowflakes for years need to take a look in the mirror. Also, comically, i'm sure if Bill and Frank were hot women, I'd guess there'd be very few complaints about "pushing a gay agenda."
The complaint isn't about seeing the "gay agenda". It's about being surprised with seeing ugly ass people in bed (which happened because the producers were pushing their gay agenda). We would be complaining if they were ugly fat ass lesbians or an ugly hetro couple for that matter. I don't usually watch shows so that I can see ugly ass people. I see that every day in real life. I watch shows to see things I don't see every day. If the producers concentrated less on pushing agendas and more on telling the best story possible, then the show would be better.
so you see middle aged white bearded dudes bang every day?


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