I think she did. I think part of the reaction we see from her is "Holy sh%&, I can't believe Tom betrayed me and had the balls to do this."Ervin Burrell said:
Ok, I'm just going to ask it and it might be a dumb question. Does Shiv have any idea Tom f'd her and her siblings? Logan tapping Tom on the shoulder was in her eyesight (I think?). But I don't think she would have let Tom touch her if she knew.
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Right. She's just in complete shock.
I read it as she knew it was Tom. When she saw him in the door and saw the embrace by Logan is when she knew.
I thought so but wavered when he went to console her and she just kinda went with it. Makes sense she would play dumb in front of Kendall and Roman though, as a previous poster pointed out.TexjbA&M said:
I read it as she knew it was Tom. When she saw him in the door and saw the embrace by Logan is when she knew.
edit - after rewatching the gif Teddy Perkins posted on the previous page, pretty obvious Shiv knows by looking at her face.
#TeamShivBrian Earl Spilner said:Teddy Perkins said:
What a solid season. Team Tom!
Shiv is Michael...Tom/Fredo/Kay will be put back in his place halfway through episode 4.1
Other than being rich, What power does Shiv have now? She no longer can affect his corporate positioning.
I think that is correct, based on the following comment from Sarah Snook:TCTTS said:
Shiv knows. You can see it on her face. But in the moment, she can't let Kendall and Roman know it was her who f/cked up/was betrayed. At least that's how I read it.
https://www.vulture.com/2021/12/succession-season-three-finale-interviews.htmlQuote:
When I watched them film the episode's final scene, they tried the last moment a few different ways: one where Shiv doesn't catch that Tom-Logan moment and another where only Kendall clocks it. In the one that aired, Shiv sees it. When we talked in the summer, Snook wasn't sure what the ultimate selection would be, but she had hopes for a cliffhanger. "Part of me, as an actor, is always wondering what is more interesting to the audience to see, not just what we're going through in the character," she told me. "At the end of an episode, having something that narratively projects into the next season sets it up quite nicely. If Shiv knows, but her brothers don't, and Tom doesn't know that Shiv knows there's a lot of potential there."
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Well she does know the story of what he did at his bachelor party.....
counterpoint, shiv is a self-absorbed dip****TCTTS said:
Shiv knows. You can see it on her face. But in the moment, she can't let Kendall and Roman know it was her who f/cked up/was betrayed. At least that's how I read it.
but i actually do think she knows. and in a way, it might actually make her more attracted to tom than ever before.
v
Rewatching the finale tonight
Texags waiting on Season 4.Brian Earl Spilner said:
Rewatching the finale tonight
A day later and still. That episode was the most perfect thing I've seen. You can step back and look at every Tony & Carmela episode. Every Walter White episode. The stakes were so much lower here, but the execution was absolute perfection. Just on every level. If you run it back, the camera angles are just stunning. So many shots capture something you don't even realize until you watch it back.
The level of high comedy, and high drama, and the way this show walks that line has never been matched.
The level of high comedy, and high drama, and the way this show walks that line has never been matched.
What if you told mom she was the only one who made her son's pee pee go boom boom?
"A change of control needs a super majority in the holding company, mom got that for us in the divorce" so she traded their shares for a flat in England for her new husband?
Lol. Tom confirming ATN can sight the kids as sources.
Lol. Tom confirming ATN can sight the kids as sources.
Brian Earl Spilner said:
Not entirely sure what this means...but interesting.
Was he the attorney Tom called when he was considering telling Logan he'd go to prison for him?
Roman's joke about not being able to get a drink at Shiv's wedding, and Kendall's reaction. "Please, man."
Freaking hysterical. Even funnier on rewatch
Freaking hysterical. Even funnier on rewatch
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Brian Earl Spilner said:
Roman's joke about not being able to get a drink at Shiv's wedding, and Kendall's reaction. "Please, man."
Freaking hysterical. Even funnier on rewatch
I don't think I've seen a better television scene that balanced soul-baring vulnerability and ******** humor than that scene between Jeremy Strong and Kieran Culkin. **** was legit Shakespearean in terms of that kind of simultaneous laugh/cry split.
DGAF if already posted. "What am I gonna do with a soul anyway?" is gonna be an all timer. Long may they reign!
I physically couldn't help it (sound on pls) pic.twitter.com/v3uBDb7Qh0
— Jason Gallagher (@jga41agher) December 13, 2021
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I low key liked "Case closed, slam it shut. THE VERDICT IS LOVE, YOUR HONOR!" better.
mazzag said:Brian Earl Spilner said:
Not entirely sure what this means...but interesting.
Was he the attorney Tom called when he was considering telling Logan he'd go to prison for him?
I think so. And he's the guy taking care of the divorce stuff.
I guess it could be a coincidence, but maybe a hint that Tom had this in the works with that lawyer for a while?
Head Ninja In Charge said:Brian Earl Spilner said:
Roman's joke about not being able to get a drink at Shiv's wedding, and Kendall's reaction. "Please, man."
Freaking hysterical. Even funnier on rewatch
I don't think I've seen a better television scene that balanced soul-baring vulnerability and ******** humor than that scene between Jeremy Strong and Kieran Culkin. **** was legit Shakespearean in terms of that kind of simultaneous laugh/cry split.
"I mean it took me 3 hours to get a gin and tonic, sooo who's the real victim here?"
Quote:
When do you start breaking story and when are you hoping to go into production on season 4?
We will get the room going again after Christmas in January, I hope, and then we'll see how long the season should be and how that makes everything in play down the line.
Do you have a finite ending in store for Succession? Do you see this lasting five, six or seven seasons? Or do you take it one season at a time?
A bit of both. I have a pitch for where and how I think we end. It's not immutable in respect to my colleagues, we'll chat about it and how many seasons that plays out over. Similarly I have a pitch, I don't want to say in public as it will take away a little bit of the fun and I want to check in with all the important people around the show to see if we all feel the same.
‘Succession’ Season 3 Finale: Creator Jesse Armstrong On Jarring Twist, Tom & Shiv’s Future & His “Pitch” For The Ultimate Series Ending https://t.co/vlPbBCEuds
— Deadline Hollywood (@DEADLINE) December 13, 2021
Since they don't start writing season four 'til next month, I'm afraid it's going to be early 2023 before we get more Succession. My guess would be March '23. I was hoping they'd already started writing, but at this pace they won't start shooting 'til summer '22 or so, and if that's the case I don't see any way they make an October '22 premiere.
The weirdest thing about HBO is how they slow their pipeline to dwindle. I understand Larry David never needed to work another day in his life, so that passion project randomly popping up makes sense. But the lame speed of the rest of the tent poles is so weird. Obviously the scripts are good af when turned in, but how can it possibly take this long?!?!
I'm reading Tinderbox rn, which is fantastic. Understand Sopranos took forever bc Gandolfini was generally too ****ed up to show up to set. Other than Jeremy Strong being a psychopath, which everyone seems to be able to handle, not sure why this show takes so freaking long to produce.
I'm reading Tinderbox rn, which is fantastic. Understand Sopranos took forever bc Gandolfini was generally too ****ed up to show up to set. Other than Jeremy Strong being a psychopath, which everyone seems to be able to handle, not sure why this show takes so freaking long to produce.
I hear you, and had actually just added Tinderbox to my Christmas list. So, good to know it's worth the read.
That said, I feel like Succession actually had a pretty fast turnaround, relatively speaking, across it's first two seasons, at least. I did some quick research, and came up with this...
SEASON 1
- Filmed October 2017 through February 2018 = 5 MONTHS of filming
- Premiered June 2018 = 3 MONTHS after filming
SEASON 2
- Filmed March 2019 through July 2021 = 5 MONTHS of filming
- Premiered August 2019 = 1 MONTH after filming
SEASON 3
- Filmed November 2020 through June 2021 = 8 MONTHS of filming
- Premiered October 2021 = 3 MONTHS after filming
A few notes…
- Season three obviously took longer to film because of Covid protocols/location securing, and I doubt they were filming that entire eight months as well (in fact, it sounds like there was a fairly big gap before they filmed all the Italy stuff in May/June).
- If you throw out 2020, each season premiered two months later in the calendar year than the previous season. So, June, August, and October premieres, respectively.
- If that pattern holds, we'd be looking at a December 2022 season four premiere. That said, HBO never debuts their biggest series in December. Instead the latest in the year they debut a signature show is October (so that the season ends in December). And seeing as October '22 is likely impossible to meet (schedule-wise, and because HBO's 2022 is insanely staked already), the next slot is January '23 (almost always the second weekend in January, at that). Though, it's rare for HBO to debut big signature shows in January as well, because January through March is traditionally reserved for the first season of a new show, or an additional season of their middle tier stuff. But March has always seen the debut of a big, blockbuster season, namely for Game of Thrones, which used to almost always premiere in the spring.
-All of this is to say, it's looking like either January '23 or March '23 for season four, though I'd bet heavy on March. Gun to my head, after starting writing next month, I bet they start filming this summer into the fall, for five to six months, then season four premieres three or four months later in March '23.
That said, I feel like Succession actually had a pretty fast turnaround, relatively speaking, across it's first two seasons, at least. I did some quick research, and came up with this...
SEASON 1
- Filmed October 2017 through February 2018 = 5 MONTHS of filming
- Premiered June 2018 = 3 MONTHS after filming
SEASON 2
- Filmed March 2019 through July 2021 = 5 MONTHS of filming
- Premiered August 2019 = 1 MONTH after filming
SEASON 3
- Filmed November 2020 through June 2021 = 8 MONTHS of filming
- Premiered October 2021 = 3 MONTHS after filming
A few notes…
- Season three obviously took longer to film because of Covid protocols/location securing, and I doubt they were filming that entire eight months as well (in fact, it sounds like there was a fairly big gap before they filmed all the Italy stuff in May/June).
- If you throw out 2020, each season premiered two months later in the calendar year than the previous season. So, June, August, and October premieres, respectively.
- If that pattern holds, we'd be looking at a December 2022 season four premiere. That said, HBO never debuts their biggest series in December. Instead the latest in the year they debut a signature show is October (so that the season ends in December). And seeing as October '22 is likely impossible to meet (schedule-wise, and because HBO's 2022 is insanely staked already), the next slot is January '23 (almost always the second weekend in January, at that). Though, it's rare for HBO to debut big signature shows in January as well, because January through March is traditionally reserved for the first season of a new show, or an additional season of their middle tier stuff. But March has always seen the debut of a big, blockbuster season, namely for Game of Thrones, which used to almost always premiere in the spring.
-All of this is to say, it's looking like either January '23 or March '23 for season four, though I'd bet heavy on March. Gun to my head, after starting writing next month, I bet they start filming this summer into the fall, for five to six months, then season four premieres three or four months later in March '23.
Where does #Succession go after that shocking Season 3 finale? @ChrisRyan77 and @andygreenwald break it all down on @thewatchpod.https://t.co/bLC2qRjsrp
— The Watch (@thewatchpod) December 13, 2021
I'd guess s4 is the feds trying to halt a monopoly? Shiv wuz a political consultant. She has contacts. This buyout "fits" a monopoly and the kids aren't going quietly into the night, once they've gained composure.
I like that. Off the top of my head, so far for s4 we've got...
- Feds and/or siblings attempting to break up the monopoly/merger.
- Drama/growing pains of merger (Waystar high-ups being fired, disagreements over vision, etc).
- Skarsgard/Matsson as a potential series regular/semi-regular.
- Logan overseeing/promoting Menken as his presidential candidate of choice for the upcoming election.
- Shiv and Tom fireworks.
- Logan potentially knocking up Kerry.
What else?
- Feds and/or siblings attempting to break up the monopoly/merger.
- Drama/growing pains of merger (Waystar high-ups being fired, disagreements over vision, etc).
- Skarsgard/Matsson as a potential series regular/semi-regular.
- Logan overseeing/promoting Menken as his presidential candidate of choice for the upcoming election.
- Shiv and Tom fireworks.
- Logan potentially knocking up Kerry.
What else?
Brian Earl Spilner said:
To me the best acting moment in an episode chock full of them.
"Why?"
Yeah when we were watching last night my wife turned to me and said (regarding Roman in the final scene), "It's pretty incredible when you remember that these people are just acting."
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Didnt season 1 and season 3 end at a wedding? Shiv and Tom's and then the mother Caroline's. That means the season 4 finale is going to get crazy at Connors and Willa's wedding. **** it. How bad could it be?
I'm curious to see what the board looks like after the merger. Does Waystar get seats? Do the kids keep theirs? Hard to believe they are completely cut out, though it could happen. Stewie/Sandie cash out or still involved? Josh had 4% of Waystar, he still kicking around?TCTTS said:
I like that. Off the top of my head, so far for s4 we've got...
- Feds and/or siblings attempting to break up the monopoly/merger.
- Drama/growing pains of merger (Waystar high-ups being fired, disagreements over vision, etc).
- Skarsgard/Matsson as a potential series regular/semi-regular.
- Logan overseeing/promoting Menken as his presidential candidate of choice for the upcoming election.
- Shiv and Tom fireworks.
- Logan potentially knocking up Kerry.
What else?
I'm guessing Matsson is going to be a semi-regular on the show. Maybe shows in a few spots of key importance, but he's kind of enigmatic, only shows up when he wants to. He's not omnipresent like Logan is.
I'd personally like to see the siblings try to pivot into something else. When they were in the car together they all obviously have different skill sets. Perhaps this act by Logan puts them on a path to something else. They've got considerable assets, they can write their own future if they want to, collectively or individually.
I think there's a chance that not all of the assets of Waystar are going to GoJo. GoJo might take what they want, leaving out the stuff they don't. What if they don't want the parks division, or movies? They alluded to that when Logan and Matsson were talking. Perhaps there's a piece of Waystar left that Logan wants to see if the kids could do anything with, something he doesn't care about at all, something he thinks is worthless.
I am definitely hoping to have a scene in episode one that completely pulls back the curtain on Logan and Tom, exactly what went down, what Tom's getting in return, etc.
He told the kids everyone would be rated (on their abilities) and they could build their own piles of money. So I dunno. IMO they are spoiled and worthless. To worry that one more heir would dilute what they might inherit? I lol'd at Logan's dig at the twitter and Facebook CEO's.
TCTTS said:
I like that. Off the top of my head, so far for s4 we've got...
- Feds and/or siblings attempting to break up the monopoly/merger.
- Drama/growing pains of merger (Waystar high-ups being fired, disagreements over vision, etc).
- Skarsgard/Matsson as a potential series regular/semi-regular.
- Logan overseeing/promoting Menken as his presidential candidate of choice for the upcoming election.
- Shiv and Tom fireworks.
- Logan potentially knocking up Kerry.
What else?
I'm pulling for Logan takes his pile of cash to Edinburgh to try and turn Hibs or Hearts (whichever one he owns) into a European football superpower. And to do so he brings in an up and coming manager from the English game, Theodore Lasso.
Boom! Cross-platform crossover!
Can Ted warm the ice surrounding Logan's heart and bring his family back together? Can Logan's cynicism wear down Ted's eternal optimism? Tune in next season to find out!
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