Westworld 3 - 2020

129,590 Views | 1470 Replies | Last: 3 yr ago by TCTTS
TCTTS
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blindey said:

So put a little more simply for the "no talent bum/how did you get in here/"Next!"/someone call security" crowd, from the standpoint of a storyteller that tells stories, the show would do well by settling into a more concrete concept at this point?

Basically, yes. As oragator mentions above, it can still be complex, there can still be red herrings and back stabbing, etc, but at this point, three seasons in, everyone's goals need to be whittled down, clearly defined, and made less redundant. We're to the point where the endgame should be more clearly in focus than it currently is. They can still take another three seasons or however long to get there, but motivations need to quit changing so much, so the core drama/conflict of the show can be clear, thus making it easier for us to invest.

Think about Game of Thrones. Yes, they botched the ending, but the conceit/concept of the show was super simple, and worked extremely well: there's a throne, someone's on it, and a bunch of other people/factions not only want it, but believe they have claim to it. Motivations evolved over the course of the series, but they never really changed all that much. We always knew who wanted the thrown, and why.

So far, in three seasons of Westworld...

- Dolores has wanted to 1) scratch the itch at the core of her Westworld reality, 2) free her fellow hosts, 3) create a home in the real world for her fellow hosts/disrupt (conquer?) humanity in the process.

- Maeve has wanted to 1) scratch the itch at the core of her Westworld reality, 2) be reunited with her daughter in Westworld, 3) be reunited with her daughter in The Valley Beyond.

- Bernard has wanted to 1) come to grips with the nature of his reality, 2) stop being a pawn in the conflict between man and host, 3) stop Dolores from eradicating humanity.

- William has wanted to A) find the center of the maze, B) prove he has choice, C) wipe out all the hosts.

I'm not critiquing any of that, and again, it all makes sense, and I appreciate the evolution of each character's motivations. But with the additions of Serac, Caleb, and Charlores this season, it's all gotten too muddled, alliances have shifted in redundant fashion, compelling dynamics have been ignored, etc. It's time for everyone to settle into the their roles, so to speak, for the endgame, and maybe even clear a piece or two off the board. I don't need a big twist in the finale come Sunday, I'm just hoping that by the end of the episode, goals/alliances/dynamics/the endgame are all made clearer than they are now.
TCTTS
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Pretty cool...

Quote:

In the first episode, Delores and Teddy are watching her families cattle. And Teddy asks how they lead and heard all the cattle. Delores says that you have to pick out the Judas cow and lead him, and where they go the rest will follow.

Caleb is the Judas cow Delores is using to herd humanity. It's really obvious that Delores was using Caleb to either free humanity, destroy, or guide it. But that detail from the very first episode is, kinda crazy, so far back.

https://www.reddit.com/r/westworld/comments/g9xx6a/okay_actually_wild_thing_i_just_noticed_someone/
TCTTS
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I highly recommend listening to this week's episode of The Recappables: Westworld podcast in advance of the finale. They're just as stumped about certain aspects as some of us are, but they do a great job of working through all the possibilities, scenarios, meanings, etc. I feel like I'm as ready for Sunday as I can be...


https://www.theringer.com/2020/4/26/21237809/westworld-s3e7-passed-pawn
merc
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I have never listened to them but I am checking out the theories episode they dropped today. Really cool stuff. I never even thought about Serac's hologram popping up and talking to Caleb as if he was his brother. Could be nothing but he would just have hologram pop up every time someone walked across that spot addressing his brother?
TCTTS
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Nice. I'm about a quarter of the way through that episode and will probably finish it tomorrow. Anxious to the part you're referring to, as that's an interesting idea...
CoachRTM
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Thought I had while laying in bed trying to go to sleep.....


Didn't we just see a host get cut in half in a public restaurant? Wouldn't "wires" and stuff be popping out and raise a bunch of questions?
TCTTS
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I think most of the bar had cleared out by then. Plus, with the chaos currently in the streets, and the revolution to come (which looks to begin next episode), a host body found in the real world probably isn't going to register as much as it would have otherwise.
amercer
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In season 1, William (as the MIB), was complaining that the hosts used to be these brilliant mechanical creations, but later versions were made to be biological. So other than the control unit in their brain, I think the body would look pretty normal.

Or at least as normal as a decapitated body can look.
TCTTS
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Good point.
bobinator
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I was just able to finally watch last night. Where are we at theory wise?
merc
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bobinator said:

I was just able to finally watch last night. Where are we at theory wise?
redline248
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Great gif from a great movie
TCTTS
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TCTTS
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bobinator said:

I was just able to finally watch last night. Where are we at theory wise?

Honestly, there are too many to name at this point. I finally finished this week's The Recappables: Westworld theory episode (different from episode I linked to above), and as merc mentioned, it's great. It covers so many interesting theories, none of which I'm 100% in on, but all of which feel like they have some truth to them. Makes me so curious to see where the filmmakers land. Seriously, if you get a chance, give this episode a listen, as it covers just about every outcome imaginable, some outrageous, others not so much...


https://www.theringer.com/2020/4/29/21240990/theories-and-mailbag-from-westworld-s3e7-passed-pawn
Teddy Perkins
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Yea, there's some major weirdness going on (Caleb and Williams IDs matching?!?!), but I'm at a loss as to how it translates into a big reveal. I think there's going to be two possibilities after Sunday. First, there is no major reveal and everyone is like WTF, when did Westworld become a ho-him Sci-Fi series. Second, the reveal is so complex that maybe 5% of viewers understand it, there will be holes and questions unanswered that leave everyone ready to bail. But either way, in two years when season 4 premieres we all forget about our disappointment and start this loop over.
aggiepaintrain
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y'all let me know how this ends, I'm done with this snooze fest
amg405
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I enjoyed it, although Caleb's backstory is boring and Maeve's character has become silly to me.

It's still entertaining and I'm definitely all in on the finale.
Teddy Perkins
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Now this can't be random (notice the fabric patterns correlating to the structure of Solomon/Rehoboam). Found on reddit titled as Order & Chaos.

merc
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Interesting. I love the subreddit but they post so many of these types of things I have lost site of what is probably a coincidence and what the show runners want someone to notice.
TV Casualty
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It think that was intentional. It's the rehoboam plan versus the Solomon plan at this point. Serac versus his brother Jean Mi. Delores and Maeve now represent each of the strategies emitnating from the respective AIs.

I guess we will find out how much of what is going on is in a simulation or augmented reality in the finale.
redline248
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Random thought I just had, which I'm certain has occurred to others on the internet:

Solomon was given a voice. Would that indicate that it is meant to be a "hero" (or at least help Dolores be the hero), versus Hobo which is still just a machine running it's cold calculations?
TCTTS
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Wow, that's awesome.
TCTTS
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Oooh, I like that.
bobinator
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Still catching up, but did we talk about this episode just opening up with Dolores and Caleb talking about her being from Westworld? Like did I miss there part where he found out that she wasn't human or did that happen off screen?
bobinator
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Could be, but Rehoboam is also basically speaking through Serac. There's no real reason it needs a voice like Solomon did for this episode to work.
TCTTS
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I think it was pretty obvious to Caleb when she took those bullets for him. I'm assuming they had that convo on the plane right to Sonora just after. But yeah, it would have been nice to actually see that convo take place.
Teddy Perkins
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bobinator said:

Still catching up, but did we talk about this episode just opening up with Dolores and Caleb talking about her being from Westworld? Like did I miss there part where he found out that she wasn't human or did that happen off screen?
You didn't miss anything. Caleb gave her the shocked face when she got shot at the end of episode 5 and she didn't buckle like when she first fell into her arms in episode 1. That's when he put it together that she was a host.
bobinator
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Yeah, he definitely knew something was up, but that seems like an important scene for our main characters that we didn't get to see.
TCTTS
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redline248 said:

Random thought I just had, which I'm certain has occurred to others on the internet:

Solomon was given a voice. Would that indicate that it is meant to be a "hero" (or at least help Dolores be the hero), versus Hobo which is still just a machine running it's cold calculations?

Wait, did you change it to "voice" from "choice"? I could have swore you said "choice," which is what I responding to. Either way, Dolores also gave Solomon a choice, which was so thematically perfect. I think it's why Solomon finally agreed to run Jean Mi's original outcome.
bobinator
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Also did the EMP knock all of those pods offline? So all of those people are about to wake up?
TCTTS
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Either they die or they wake up, I don't know which.
redline248
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TCTTS said:

redline248 said:

Random thought I just had, which I'm certain has occurred to others on the internet:

Solomon was given a voice. Would that indicate that it is meant to be a "hero" (or at least help Dolores be the hero), versus Hobo which is still just a machine running it's cold calculations?

Wait, did you change it to "voice" from "choice"? I could have swore you said "choice," which is what I responding to. Either way, Dolores also gave Solomon a choice, which was so thematically perfect. I think it's why Solomon finally agreed to run Jean Mi's original outcome.
No, it always said voice. My edit was to correct the spelling on Solomon, which originally had an 'a'

The reason I used voice is because generally in film/tv characters with spoken lines are more significant, in some form or fashion, than those without them. Hobo is just a machine, thus far. Kind of like Sauron in Lord of the Rings. He's the enemy we are ultimately trying to stop.

As bobinator says, it could have just been a device for the convenience of the episode, though.
redline248
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TCTTS said:

Either they die or they wake up, I don't know which.
My guess is they would die, but like you suggest, how do we know for sure? I suppose they could wake up and serve as the Outlier Division in Caleb's army.
TCTTS
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Gotcha.
TV Casualty
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You would think if the power goes out that they would just be dead.

Delores did say that Caleb should lead an army. It would seem like waking them up would be a good start to further her plan. The more unpredictable elements in play the better for Delores.

Caleb leads the army of the undead to set humanity free from Serac and Rehoboam. Haha
 
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