In agreement that the episode was pretty underwhelming overall. At least the first hour or so. It was bland, redundant, super on the nose, and yeah, way too Bond villainy for my taste, with a lot of bad, repetitive dialogue. That said, I really dug the last 15 minutes or so and how they set up season four.

It's also worth noting that there's still one Dolores pearl out there (besides Charlores'), apparently in Berlin. So I'd be surprised if Evan Rachel Wood is really done. I kept waiting for that to be the final, post-credit reveal, but the Bernard one - another flash forward to the far future - was pretty damn cool instead.

I need to sit with this episode a while, soak in the podcasts/videos to come this week, and then reassess. But my gut reaction is that the highs this season were the highest of the series, while the lows were the lowest of the low. One minute it could feel incredibly awe-inspiring, inventive, and thematically focused, and then the next minute you could just feel the air coming out of the tires. And it constantly fluctuated between the two. That said, all in all, my request was seemingly granted; to move a piece or two off the board so we could finally get some clear-cut factions, and rid the show of redundant motivations, which they certainly did. I wish the end game was made clearer - as I have no idea what this show is about going forward - but I'm still on board to find out.

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EDIT: I forgot about Lawlores (Lawrence/Dolores), but I'm still not sure if that was her/the final pearl or not. Either way, I guess at least one Dolores is still alive.

Blatant Disregard said:

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This show is great but it seems Jonathan Nolan's priority list is:

1. Theme
2. Theme
3. Theme (I'll hit you over the head with it! Choice versus free will! Get it? Is the beauty of the world good enough to overcome the bad? GET IT?)
4. Theme
5. Setting
6. Plot

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Nolan is so, so good when he manages to balance to the theme-delivering with plot/character. That's when the show is at its best - the season two finale, episode three of this season, etc - but yeah, that was my main issue with the finale tonight; just mind-numbing, ridiculously repetitive delivering of theme through dialogue, ad nauseam, to the point of it feeling lazier than it ever has.

Teddy Perkins said:

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So interesting things we did learn.

• The military and Caleb trained in Park 5.
• Lawrence was the last Dolores pearl.
• All the hosts are based on Dolores.
• Halores is going to be the big bad and is with Delos printing a ton of hosts.
• William is dead, Man in Black is now a host.

Things we still need answers to.

• What happened to all the outliers in Mexico?
• Who is in Berlin?
• What are Clementine and Hanaryo doing?
• Is Giggles going to live?
• Where is Hale's dog?

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Are we sure Lawrence was the last Dolores pearl? I can't remember what he said, but it sounded like he dodged the question when William addressed it. Either way, I totally forgot about that scene.

He didn't explicitly say he was a Dolores copy but telling Bernard his role and its importance as well as giving him the case from Sato has everyone thinking that it has to be Dolawrence.

Oh yeah, you're right. I forgot about the case. We didn't see him die, though, correct? So there's still a Dolores out there in Lawrence's body?

Right, we didn't see him die. Status of the 6 pearls that Dolores had when she left the park at the end of S3:

• Dolores lying underneath Rehoboam, possibly dead dead
• Sato beheaded by Clementine and Hanaryo
• Bernard woke up after taking a vacay in the oculus rift
• Hale is plotting to take over the world printing hosts at Delos Dubai
• Lawrence last seen in riot gear helping out Bernard and handing him the case
• Martin Connells pearl recovered by Serac after he tried to explode himself

It's not really a show without Bernard and Delores, so I'll have to assume he was out for 6 months, not 600 years. And that she can be rebuilt from a remaining pearl.

I assume season 4 will be: Westworld: The Search for Delores.

I liked it, but pretty much emblematic of the whole season - Style and head fakery over substance. There was a fair amount of good in the season, but overall didn't think it was what it could have been.

If the next season is in the sublime world, that has crazy good potential and might allow the show to get back to what it does really well - back in an imaginary world with the concept of humanity's failings as shown through the innocence of the hosts. A purely debaucherous MIB will help that too.

Still in, and ERW better be back.

Teddy Perkins said:

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Right, we didn't see him die. Status of the 6 pearls that Dolores had when she left the park at the end of S3:

• Dolores lying underneath Rehoboam, possibly dead dead
• Sato beheaded by Clementine and Hanaryo
• Bernard woke up after taking a vacay in the oculus rift
• Hale is plotting to take over the world printing hosts at Delos Dubai
• Lawrence last seen in riot gear helping out Bernard and handing him the case
• Martin Connells pearl recovered by Serac after he tried to explode himself

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Ah, yes. So, presumably...

- Charlores has the Connells/Dolores pearl (remember, Charlores got it back) AND the Musashi/Dolores pearl (since Clementine and Hanaryo presumably gave it to Charlores after decapitating him).

- Then, of course, the Lawrence/Dolores pearl is still out in the wild.

So THREE Dolores pearls are conceivably still in play.

The season was a bit of a story arc we didn't need. The first two seasons felt deep and necessary. I definitely feel like when the show is done people will look back at season three and be like "is that the one where the fought the French guy?"

Thoughts on how long Bernard was "out" for?

Looked like years if not decades. That said, I don't see how someone else doesn't enter that room the entire time, no matter how long it was.

Wish they could tell the story without the excessive use of stormtrooper gun fights. I can ignore it most of the time but after the first dozen or so it gets really distracting.

Help me out with something.

So Dolores' plan was never to actually end humanity? Or did she simply change her mind when she plugged into Rehoboam? Furthermore, what was the chip given from Solomon intended to do, just shut the system down or actually bring about the end of humanity?

Assuming Dolores was actually NOT intending to destroy humanity, it seems kind of weird to me that now Charlores has essentially taken the path that we thought original Dolores was on. Sort of "convenient", plot-wise, with not much in the way of explanation for it other than her turning against Dolores.

Also, I have absolutely NO understanding of what the point of Bernard going into the sublime for apparently years was. Hoping there is a reason for that.

On first watch, I'm just as confused as you are. I'm sure the answer is there, it was just really hard to keep track.

For some reason, the Sublime holds the key to "what happens after the apocalypse." That was one of the last things Bernard said to Stubbs before going in. So he's going there to learn something that will help him navigate/fight the current apocalyptic situation in the real world. But the fact that he was apparently in the Sublime for years if not decades doesn't seem like it's really going to help the current situation, so I have no idea what's going on.

Actually, what if the "future"/dusty version of the hotel room *is* somehow the sublime, or at least a part of it? What if it somehow allows Bernard to see a simulation of the future of humanity, he navigates it, learns what he needs to, then returns to the real world/present version of the hotel room with Stubbs still in the tub?

Yeah, that line is just kind of nonsensical to me, honestly. I don't see how hanging out with a bunch of hosts in their version of heaven for years will help in the real world, but I'm sure they have a purpose for it we don't know yet.

Anyone think those fidelity tests on host William from the end of S2 are something we'll come back to before the end of the show? I wonder if Bernard wakes up far enough in the future to where those two scenes may line up. Maybe we're getting ready for a huge time jump in S4.

Hmm. Certainly more interesting than literally being in that field in the sublime all that time.

I wonder if the Sublime can be different things for different host?

100% in agreement.

Brian Earl Spilner said:

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Help me out with something.

So Dolores' plan was never to actually end humanity? Or did she simply change her mind when she plugged into Rehoboam? Furthermore, what was the chip given from Solomon intended to do, just shut the system down or actually bring about the end of humanity?

Assuming Dolores was actually NOT intending to destroy humanity, it seems kind of weird to me that now Charlores has essentially taken the path that we thought original Dolores was on. Sort of "convenient", plot-wise, with not much in the way of explanation for it other than her turning against Dolores.

---

I took it as Delore's plan was to always give them the chance to operate without the AI pulling the strings. The AI seems to think this will mean humanity's destruction, but she's willing to give Humanity the chance instead of just going off of what the simulation says. This is the whole season's premise applied to all humans as opposed to just individuals (the outliers).

But honestly, the way it was expressed was so bad I don't blame anyone for not getting the point. And honestly that's just how I took it and I'm not really all that confident in that explanation, but I do think it makes sense.

Well TCTTS was right and I was wrong about multiLores. PM me your Paypal and I'll pay up.

The most frustrating thing for me is that the first half of this season was up there with the best the show has ever been. Or, rather the final two or three episodes of season two, through the first half of this season, were peak Westworld, IMO. I still think the season two finale is one of the best season finales I've seen, and provided such an incredibly poignant setup for season three (Radiohead playing while Dolores talks to Bernard about "choice" in that final scene was maybe my favorite moment of the entire series). Then the first episode of this season was a knock out, and so incredibly cool, with Dolores emerging from Jerry's pool to wreak havoc, Caleb's whole story, the introduction of the real world, etc. Then episode three of this season, which focused primarily on Charlores, was maybe my favorite all around episode of the entire series. It was so well done, so hauntingly beautiful, and ended with another of my favorite music queues (Moses Sumney's "Doomed"). And then it all culminated at the end of the incredible fourth episode, with the brilliant, Dolores-is-all-the-hosts reveal, and I could not have been more on board.

It was when that whole genre drug thing happened in the fifth episode that things started to feel a bit lazy to me, and it just went downhill from there. Yes, episode six was damn good, but five, seven, and eight just really missed the mark for me, in multiple ways, to the point where it felt like the creators had all the time in the world to write the first four episodes, and poured so much into them, but then all the sudden found themselves with like two weeks left to knock out the final four. The second half of the season just felt so rushed, and I'm at a loss as to how how such a promising start could result in such a limp ending.

Bregxit said:

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Well TCTTS was right and I was wrong about multiLores. PM me your Paypal and I'll pay up.

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Ha, don't worry about it. I had honestly forgot. I definitely appreciate the willingness to pay, but I'd feel like a jerk actually collecting.

MBAR said:

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Brian Earl Spilner said:

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Help me out with something.

So Dolores' plan was never to actually end humanity? Or did she simply change her mind when she plugged into Rehoboam? Furthermore, what was the chip given from Solomon intended to do, just shut the system down or actually bring about the end of humanity?

Assuming Dolores was actually NOT intending to destroy humanity, it seems kind of weird to me that now Charlores has essentially taken the path that we thought original Dolores was on. Sort of "convenient", plot-wise, with not much in the way of explanation for it other than her turning against Dolores.

---

I took it as Delore's plan was to always give them the chance to operate without the AI pulling the strings. The AI seems to think this will mean humanity's destruction, but she's willing to give Humanity the chance instead of just going off of what the simulation says. This is the whole season's premise applied to all humans as opposed to just individuals (the outliers).

But honestly, the way it was expressed was so bad I don't blame anyone for not getting the point. And honestly that's just how I took it and I'm not really all that confident in that explanation, but I do think it makes sense.

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I think you're right. That's a good read on it. It's a great idea, and could have landed so much better had they not obfusticated it so much.

TCTTS said:

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Bregxit said:

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Well TCTTS was right and I was wrong about multiLores. PM me your Paypal and I'll pay up.

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Ha, don't worry about it. I had honestly forgot. I definitely appreciate the willingness to pay, but I'd feel like a jerk actually collecting.

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Okie doke.

Funny thing, I became more accepting of the idea tonight when she said all the hosts were basically copies of her since she was the first that worked. That premise made sense to me and didn't feel cheap.