I guess I was confused on that since Connels was able to send out everyone's profiles earlier in the season.

Plus it seemed like Caleb was going to be able to upload that file from Solomon to Rehoboam.

oragator said:

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Yeah the season felt off as I have mentioned, but some of the nit picks feel a bit Star Wars fan ish.

It's still better than most everything on TV.

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That's how I feel. And that's why I don't watch all the extra podcasts and YouTube videos. They nickel and dime every freaking frame looking for wrinkles in the corner of the picture and setting up their own version of what they think will happen, only to always be let down. This season had plenty of holes. But I thought they did a great job.

And this wasn't a pivotal season and I don't believe they intended it to be. This was pretty much a soft reboot, an introduction phase with new characters, new settings, and new themes.. the old characters, settings, and themes were merely a plot vehicle to bridge the gap between Westworld and Futureworld. Season 4, I believe, is the actual pivotal season.

The first four episodes were light years ahead of last year's series.

Then a couple of duds.

Then a fantastic episode centered around Caleb's character history.

Then ... I don't know what that was, besides a terrible end to Season 3. Uninspired is the word that keeps coming to me.

Not to turn this into a show vs show thing, but that's what I found so astoundingly awesome about Watchmen. Layers upon layers of references, clues, and Easter eggs with every single one fitting the overall plot and having a payoff.

Seasons 1&2 were pretty good on that front. This one not so much.

I thought season two absolutely sucked on that front. The most notable example was them deciding that Stubbs was also a host like the night before they shot the scene.

oragator said:

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Yeah the season felt off as I have mentioned, but some of the nit picks feel a bit Star Wars fan ish.

It's still better than most everything on TV.

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Thats the thing, its not better than most things on TV and certainly not better than anything near approaching its budget. This isn't some SyFy show with a shoestring budget that can't hire good writers.

IMO, compared to other shows from premiere networks its way behind. There's too much acting talent to waste here.

Also you guys can't have it both ways. Westworld very obviously loves to have people dig deeper into it for symbolism and to unravel the mystery. It does so to the point that they made things this season mysterious that never needed to be. They want the over analysis. You can't then turn around and complain about the over analyzing when they do it poorly.

If its not your thing to look deeper into the show, then thats cool. But its definitely what the creators have gone for every season, but this season they did so so much worse than at any other point in the show because it was just a damn mess.

At this point, I don't know how anyone could say its better. Just on HBO, in the past year its not better than Succession, Watchmen, or even Outsider and Big Little Lies. Its not better than AMC's Better Call Saul. It's not better than streaming shows like Ozark or Devs. I'd rank Billions above it. Homeland? Probably on par. Final season of GoT? Once again, probably on Par.

MBAR said:

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At this point, I don't know how anyone could say its better. Just on HBO, in the past year its not better than Succession, Watchmen, or even Outsider and Big Little Lies. Its not better than AMC's Better Call Saul. It's not better than streaming shows like Ozark or Devs. I'd rank Billions above it. Homeland? Probably on par. Final season of GoT? Once again, probably on Par.

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Gauntlet thrown!!

bobinator said:

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I thought season two absolutely sucked on that front. The most notable example was them deciding that Stubbs was also a host like the night before they shot the scene.

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I didn't like the Stubbs part (and he's someone else who basically had no purpose this season) but the mysteries of season 2 were cool and payed off well. I get that people thought it was too confusing, but I thought it was kind of brilliant to see it though the scrambled brain of Bernard. Leaving William alive was clearly a giant mistake since they had no idea how to use him. I mean, how cool would that after credits scene been with a MIB reveal if William had died in the park. Also would have made the season 2 end of credit scene really work.

MBAR said:

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At this point, I don't know how anyone could say its better. Just on HBO, in the past year its not better than Succession, Watchmen, or even Outsider and Big Little Lies. Its not better than AMC's Better Call Saul. It's not better than streaming shows like Ozark or Devs. I'd rank Billions above it. Homeland? Probably on par. Final season of GoT? Once again, probably on Par.

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Did it live up to its potential this season? No. But some of these comparisons are a little ridiculous.

Actually. Let me amend that. I'd go so far as to say that the first half of the season was better than just about everything you listed, save for Succession and Saul. Yes, I realize we're talking about the season as a whole, but that's what's so frustrating and what makes it so hard to compare. Because the first half of the season was some of the best sci-fi I've ever seen, in terms of story, theme, and tech. It was incredible. So it's hard for me to say something that featured some of my all-time favorite sci-fi is a failure or worse than most of what you listed, even if it became a disappointment in the end.

TCTTS said:

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MBAR said:

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At this point, I don't know how anyone could say its better. Just on HBO, in the past year its not better than Succession, Watchmen, or even Outsider and Big Little Lies. Its not better than AMC's Better Call Saul. It's not better than streaming shows like Ozark or Devs. I'd rank Billions above it. Homeland? Probably on par. Final season of GoT? Once again, probably on Par.

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Did it live up to its potential this season? No. But some of these comparisons are a little ridiculous.

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Really? Which show on that list do you think is worse than this season? Those are all hour long dramas that I think are better or on par. Homeland is maybe the only stretch but even that is saying something.

TCTTS said:

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Actually. Let me amend that. I'd go so far as to say that the first half of the season was better than just about everything you listed, save for Succession and Saul. Yes, I realize we're talking about the season as a whole, but that's what's so frustrating and what makes it so hard to compare. Because the first half of the season was some of the best sci-fi I've ever seen, in terms of story, theme, and tech. It was incredible. So it's hard for me to say something that featured some of my all-time favorite sci-fi is a failure or worse than most of what you listed, even if it became a disappointment in the end.

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I'd agree that the first half of the season was far better, but the fall off was steeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep. I mean, the final season of GoT also had some of my favorite moments ever but its hard for me to argue that it was better than a lot of other things on TV.

Without a doubt I'm watching S4 and I hope that this end was only a blip, but its definitely fallen off quickly and I'm worried.

- I'd say Succession and Better Call Saul are in a league of their own. Probably the best two shows on television. So definitely below those.

- Ozark is certainly more of an adrenaline rush, more entertaining, and more popular, but I don't know that I'd say it's "better." I'd call it a draw between Ozark season three and Westworld season three.

- Devs was technically "smarter" and more nuanced, but I thought it bungled its final episodes - and its lead - far worse than this season of Westworld.

- IMO, it was so, so much better than the finale season of Game of Thrones.

- I quit watching Homeland years ago because of how terrible it got, and I've never seen Billions.

The latest Recappables is up. Danny Heifetz, one of the hosts, was certain parts of this season would turn out to be a simulation in the finale, to the point where he said he'd be incredibly disappointed if not. That of course didn't pan out, so I can't wait to hear his reaction. Diving in soon...

https://www.theringer.com/2020/5/4/21247185/westworld-season-3-episode-8-crisis-theory

I actually think the scrambled brain thing mostly just covered up what would have been a bad season if told in a straightforward way in season two.

I do think season two mostly hit its marks, but there were some baffling parts of it.

Put another way, I think season three showed why some of the timeline tricks were a good idea. Their footing wasn't nearly as solid when they tried to tell this story in a usual way.

merc said:

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The last season of GOT is off in its own universe of bad seasons as far as I'm concerned. It will be hard to ever top that disappointment for me. This season of Westworld will just remain a "that was it?" moment and I know there is more to come..if the actual world doesnt end or something.

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That reminds me, I think I did this right after last season, so I might as well do it again, given the circumstances.

Over the next two years, before Westworld season four premieres, presumably in the second half of 2022, we will have likely seen...

- Tenet
- Top Gun: Maverick
- Dune
- DC MOVIES: Wonder Woman 1984, The Batman, and The Suicide Squad
- MARVEL MOVIES: Black Widow, The Eternals, Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings, Spider-Man 3, Thor: Love and Thunder, Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness, Black Panther 2, and Captain Marvel 2
- Jurassic World: Dominion
- A fourth Matrix movie
- A fourth John Wick movie
- A seventh Mission: Impossible movie
- A third Avatar movie
- A fifth Indiana Jones movie
- The end of Better Call Saul
- Season four of Ozark
- Seasons three AND season four of Succession
- DISNEY+ MARVEL: At least one season each of The Falcon and the Winter Soldier series, the WandaVision series, and the Loki series, not another new series or two.
- DISNEY+ STAR WARS: Seasons two AND three of The Mandalorian, season one of the Casian Andor series, and the Obi-Wan series.
- A trailer for the 2022 Star Wars movie
- TWO Aggie football seasons
- And most importantly... a vaccine and the end of the pandemic

Which is why I said most. Even if all the shows you listed were better it would still be true, there are hundreds of shows.
But for comparison, IMDB ratings of the shows you listed:
Westworld 8.7
Ozark 8.4
BCS 8.7
Homeland 8.3
Succession 8.5
Big Little lies 8.5
Billions 8.4
Devs 7.8

So yeah it's the mouth breathing voters, and yeah it's the whole run and not one season. But it's tied with Saul for the best of the bunch. And even this season the episodes averaged around an 8.6

Doesn't mean it's perfect or that it should be everyone's preference, but there's a reason HBO keeps throwing mad dollars at it.

I think Season 2 was so confusing for some people that they tried to be more conventional with Season 3 but still have a few tricks. It sort of works at the beginning as they set the scenes for later, but then it fizzles at the end when the deeper twists that many fans are accustomed to never appear.

I hope for season four they kind of go full Leftovers and just not worry about 'casual fans'. Unless there was a huge ratings jump for this season, which I doubt, then I think they should just play the game they're good at.

This.

TCTTS said:

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merc said:

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The last season of GOT is off in its own universe of bad seasons as far as I'm concerned. It will be hard to ever top that disappointment for me. This season of Westworld will just remain a "that was it?" moment and I know there is more to come..if the actual world doesnt end or something.

---

That reminds me, I think I did this right after last season, so I might as well do it again, given the circumstances.

Over the next two years, before Westworld season four premieres, presumably in the second half of 2022, we will have likely seen...

- Top Gun: Maverick
- Dune
- DC: The Batman and The Suicide Squad
- MARVEL: Black Widow, The Eternals, Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings, Spider-Man 3, Thor: Love and Thunder, Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness, Black Panther 2, and Captain Marvel 2
- Jurassic World: Dominion
- A fourth Matrix movie
- A fourth John Wick movie
- A seventh Mission: Impossible movie
- A third Avatar movie
- A fifth Indiana Jones movie
- The end of Better Call Saul
- Season four of Ozark
- Seasons three AND season four of Succession
- Seasons two AND three of The Mandalorian
- Season one of the Casian Andor series
- The Obi-Wan series.
- At least one season each of The Falcon and the Winter Soldier series, the WandaVision series, and the Loki series
- A trailer for the 2022 Star Wars movie
- TWO Aggie football seasons
- And most importantly... a vaccine and the end of the pandemic

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You forgot two other big milestones:

1. The opening of the first actual Westworld park, and
2. The first season of Dawn

That sounds about right, and I don't know how the ratings were this year (pretty sure they weren't great by HBO Sunday night standards) but I guarantee you after that season and a two-year wait... the ratings for the season premiere of 4 are going to be dismal

Sex Panther said:

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That sounds about right, and I don't know how the ratings were this year (pretty sure they weren't great by HBO Sunday night standards) but I guarantee you after that season and a two-year wait... the ratings for the season premiere of 4 are going to be dismal

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I've been surprised to see how mixed to negative reviews are for this season and the finale. I enjoyed this one more than season two and like how this was a transitional season rearranging the pieces, and even the entire board.

It feels similar to the John Wick movies and how their settings and the mythos expanded with each sequel: Chapter One in NYC, Chapter Two in NYC and Rome, and Chapter Three went nuts and felt completely global.

Now we've moved from solely being in Westworld, to Westworld and Shogun World, and then to the open world. It seems like for season four we're going to have the real-life Westworld that The Man in Black wanted in the first season. I'm pretty excited about that idea.

I binged watched the third season over the last three days, so maybe I just haven't had as much time to stew and read about it over the course of the season like the posters here, but I thought it was pretty good.

With the fall of Rehoboam, I *do* like the idea of the real world essentially becoming Westworld, so to speak. Or, at least, in effect, a futuristic wild, wild west. That could be a fun twist.

Sex Panther said:

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That sounds about right, and I don't know how the ratings were this year (pretty sure they weren't great by HBO Sunday night standards) but I guarantee you after that season and a two-year wait... the ratings for the season premiere of 4 are going to be dismal

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Yeah, I just don't see how anyone but the hardcore fans come back. Maybe HBO swings for the fences with a big casting stunt; some new character to be played by a legit movie star. If anyone can do it, it's them. Short of that, though, I don't see how the ratings don't continue to plummet.

TCTTS said:

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The latest Recappables is up. Danny Heifetz, one of the hosts, was certain parts of this season would turn out to be a simulation in the finale, to the point where he said he'd be incredibly disappointed if not. That of course didn't pan out, so I can't wait to hear his reaction. Diving in soon...,

https://www.theringer.com/2020/5/4/21247185/westworld-season-3-episode-8-crisis-theory

---

Ha, Heifetz is in rare form this episode. This is the first time I've ever heard him be blatantly, massively disappointed, and understandably so. He does a good job of explaining why, in logical, level-headed fashion, and notes that his disappointment doesn't step from his theories not coming to fruition. Fennessey is back as a guest host, and is equally disappointed, though not as passionate, because he's more of a casual viewer than the other two. Shoemaker is the least critical, but even he's at a loss for most of the pod. Overall, there's no nerd rage or anything like that, and listening to this episode really is like reading this thread over the past 24 hours, as they touch on nearly every point we've made, and share many of our exact sentiments.

I laughed out loud several times during this podcast. They express how I felt in a really entertaining way.

Ha, same. There are multiple, legit funny moments and reactions.