Brian Earl Spilner said:

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This. Either spill it, or don't bring it up at all. Someone will "figure out more than you" regardless.

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Eh, I kind of get it.

I really like this show, and I like talking about it, but I don't want it spoiled.

I know there are people on the internets that will go through every episode frame by frame and will figure it out (or just have the actual plot leaked to them) So it's a fine line to kick around theories without inviting actual spoilers.

That's why I don't look at Reddit, but I think trying to guess what's going to happen on this thread is a huge part of the fun of this show.

bobinator said:

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Yeah I'm basically certain that's the case. I wonder if he was never actually in a war, but he was sent by the system to snatch up the "wildcards" and bring them to that place.

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I didn't consider that, but of course they'd need a paramilitary wing of the company to go around the world and pick up the problems.

I will say the only thing I haven't liked this season is how overpowered Delores is.

Serac runs the ****ing world, from the president of Brazil down to stoplights in LA, and she's made him look like a ***** without breaking a sweat (a few bullet holes aside)

If it turns out this season has been a simulation, I'm going to be pissed.

I think a big fall for our girl is coming soon

amercer said:

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Honestly that felt like it could have been the season finale.

The world is on fire, so the other plot points that are going seem kind of irrelevant now. I wonder how they bring it back down for 3 more episodes.

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Yeah, this is the feeling I was left with. This whole episode felt off to me. Definitely my least favorite of the season. The "untethering" of Rehoboam from society didn't feel nearly earned yet. I thought for sure that would be a second-to-last or final-episode-of-the-season kind of thing. Relatively speaking, it seemed way too early and easy.

I also didn't understand the point of the genre drug. I mean, I get the point of the drug itself, but I kept waiting for it to actually tie into the plot somehow, especially when Marshawn Lynch made that comment about the final act. But then it just randomly wore off and it didn't at all add anything plot-wise or thematically. I feel like I'm missing something there.

I don't know, I guess I still enjoyed the episode, but it was just really weirdly paced and I have no idea what the rest of the season is supposed to be about now. There's obviously a plan, I'm sure I'll dig it, and the shot from next week's preview of Dolores and Caleb on horseback and back in Westworld has me super intrigued. Bu on first impression, this episode came across as almost kind of sloppy to me. I need to give it another shot later this week, after The Racappables podcast and the ScreenCrush recap, and see how I feel then.

amercer said:

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Brian Earl Spilner said:

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I didn't have subs on. What was Liam saying to Caleb as he was dying?

"It was you"?

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That's what I heard.

I figured that meant that he was the one that killed Sr, but that was quickly disproven.

Maybe Caleb killed his army buddy?

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That's what I heard and was my first take, though the idea of him not actually having been in war is super intriguing.

Also, the UI design on this show is incredible.

I honestly think the whole point of the drug sequence is to show how much humans perception of reality can be manipulated in this world. I think that'll tie back to how they changed Caleb's memories or whatever.

Also we saw something similar happen with William last week when Charlores stuck him and then he "saw" Dolores.

Quote:

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Yeah, this is the feeling I was left with. This whole episode felt off to me.

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Someone on reddit threw out that it might have felt this way because it was just a "worst-case scenario" simluation that Rehoboam was seeing.

But, I don't buy that because why would the whole genre drug even be a thing if so.

After this episode I'm all the way out on any of the scenes we're seeing not being real. Other than Caleb's memories.

My guess is that Caleb and Franics *we're* in war together, but when they got back, they were recruited by the system to be Incite paramilitary, rounding up all the outliers and problem subjects. Then, while on a particular job, Caleb either killed Francis or was accidentally responsible for for Francis' death, but either way, had his memory of that time of his life wiped, and went into the "program" he refers to and we see him a part of in episode one. That said, apparently war has been "cured" for 20 years or so now by Rehoboam, so maybe the "war" part is an implant/replacement memory?

Brian Earl Spilner said:

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Quote:

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Yeah, this is the feeling I was left with. This whole episode felt off to me.

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Someone on reddit threw out that it might have felt this way because it was just a "worst-case scenario" simluation that Rehoboam was seeing.

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That would resolve everything, but it would also really suck as the whole season would just be a bull**** dream sequence waste.

Or maybe they can make it work somehow.

Yeah, like you and bobinator, I will not be a fan of them going that route, if that's where this is headed. I'm okay with a couple things being simulations here and there for whatever reason, but if this whole episode, and a lot more to come, is all just a simulation, no thanks.

Whatever the specifics, I kinda think it's leading to the point that that's Caleb's like "cornerstone" memory, and it's not real. Would kind of tie him and Dolores together in a cool way.

Yeah, I could see that.

Ok, there was a very blatant Shining reference, and I'm trying to figure out if there's some deeper meaning/connection between that movie and this season.

Any thoughts?

bobinator said:

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I honestly think the whole point of the drug sequence is to show how much humans perception of reality can be manipulated in this world. I think that'll tie back to how they changed Caleb's memories or whatever.

Also we saw something similar happen with William last week when Charlores stuck him and then he "saw" Dolores.

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I can be on board with that. I just wish the "payoff" would have been in this episode, and not, say, two episodes from now, so it's more immediately apparent what the point of the drug trip was.

Brian Earl Spilner said:

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Ok, there was a very blatant Shining reference, and I'm trying to figure out if there's some deeper meaning/connection between that movie and this season.

Any thoughts?

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I noticed that. It was so brief and so random, to the point where I was like "Whaaaaat?" and then completely forgot about it until just now. Just more randomness that made this episode feel so weirdly jarring.

I do think part of it was the director thinking "this would be cool..."

For all we don't know about what daily life is like in this world it was odd that we spent that much time on a drug trip.

What was it? must have missed it or forgot also.

This music played for a few seconds at the end when they were walking on the beach.

The theme from The Sinning played, I think, as the crew was walking on the beach, just before Laim died.

Actually, let me rephrase that... the theme from The Shining *definitely* played, but it was so brief and so random that I can't remember exactly when, though I think it was on the beach.

Interesting... need to sleep on that haha

This is my own weird thing, but another disorienting bit was when those two people got out of the driverless car with guns, were about to shoot Caleb, and Dolores blocked the bullets. That was on Broadway and Ocean in Santa Monica... an intersection I had literally just driven past an hour before - on Ocean - to pick up tacos from Holy Guacamole to take back home and eat during this episode.

What was Kate Beckinsale wearing?

TCTTS said:

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This is my own weird thing, but another disorienting bit was when those two people got out of the driverless car with guns, were about to shoot Caleb, and Dolores blocked the bullets. That was on Broadway and Ocean in Santa Monica... an intersection I had literally just driven past an hour before - on Ocean - to pick up tacos from Holy Guacamole to take back home and eat during this episode.

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Dammit, now I want tacos.

Three soft carne asada tacos with extra cheese, chips, and a side of salsa. It was delicious.

TCTTS said:

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The theme from The Sinning played, I think, as the crew was walking on the beach, just before Laim died.

Actually, let me rephrase that... the theme from The Shining *definitely* played, but it was so brief and so random that I can't remember exactly when, though I think it was on the beach.

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When Marshawn said to watch out for the last genre I 100% expected it to be horror.

We've already mentioned space oddity and someone mentioned the shining, but the music overall tonight was great. Flight of the Valkyries was perfectly timed too, lots of other good songs in there.

The Shining theme may have just been because Lena Waithe was in Ready Player One which also had a scene with The Shining

I really enjoyed this episode from just after the car chase till near the end. The wildcard in all of this is the Delos data taken from The Forge can prove that everyone that visited the island and away from the loop acted like someone the Rehoboam would consider to be an outlier. If you merged data there would be a massive divergence in what it thinks/believes and the reality of people away from the loop.