Bregxit said:

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TCTTS said:

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Right, but the glitches I'm referencing would be different. There's human-consciousness-inside-host glitches, and then there's what's happening with Charlotte - a host who is now not only in a new/different host body, but a body that just so happens to be a replica of a human, trying to mimic that human in the real world. There are bound to be glitches in that scenario as well, if only from the mental pressure of having to pretend to be someone else. In other words, "performing" as Charlotte 24/7 is starting to screw with her brain/programming. This is the explanation being given on-screen, and there's really no reason to question it at this point, especially considering its thematic resonance.

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I am not buying it is Dolores in Charlotte's head anymore. Pretty sure that is how it was at the end of season 2 but how would Dolores make a copy of herself? Did she have blank pearls as well? I think she got back in her own body and plugged another host into the Hale body.

We'll see though. It's a fun trip.

---

Honestly, I'm so confident in Dolores-as-Charlotte at this point that I'd entertain betting fellow posters and putting actual money on it.

It seems incredibly easy, relatively speaking, for Dolores to copy herself. We saw the simulation version of herself in The Forge, and she could have wiped Teddy's pearl after sending him to The Valley Beyond. It seems completely believable, at that point, that she then either downloaded the simulation version of herself to Teddy's pearl, or copied her current programming around the time she took over Charlotte's body, and downloaded her programming to Teddy's pearl then.

With all the crazy things we've seen on this show, it's odd to me that people are getting hung up on this "How would Dolores copy herself?" thing.

Add another vote for the Dolores-as-Charlotte theory. Though, he briefly touches on the Caleb-as-Charlotte theory as well, along with a ton of other great tidbits...

Teddy Perkins said:

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Differences between the two videos from Charlotte to her son.

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Man, I honestly don't know what to make of that. I can't tell if one version is simply written longer so as to better-fill the scene, or if the differences really are purposeful, hinting that one is a simulation.

TCTTS said:

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Teddy Perkins said:

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Differences between the two videos from Charlotte to her son.

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Man, I honestly don't know what to make of that. I can't tell if one version is simply written longer so as to better-fill the scene, or if the differences really are purposeful, hinting that one is a simulation.

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The first time we see the recording, Charlotte says,

Quote:

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"This is Charlotte Elizabeth Hale. This is a message for Nathan. Nathan Hale, my son, I love you so much, buddy. The night that i left, you wanted me to sing you a song. Tuck you in and sing you are song. So I am going to sing it to you now."

---

At the end of the episode, in the video, Charlotte says,

Quote:

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"This is Charlotte Elizabeth Hale. This is a message for Nathan. Nathan Hale, my son, I haven't always been there for you. There's so many things I need to say. This might be the last time that mommy gets to talk to you. I love you so much, buddy. I am so proud of you, and I am sorry. I am so sorry if I every made you feel like you weren't the most important thing. I was trying to build a life for us. And now I realize none of it even matters. The night that I left, to sing you a song, our song, but I didn't have time, so. So I am going to sing it to you now."

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To me that doesn't seem like editing to fit the scene. It seems like two different videos. Unfortunately, I think we're dealing with a Rehoboam simulation mirror world.

Bregxit said:

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TCTTS said:

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Right, but the glitches I'm referencing would be different. There's human-consciousness-inside-host glitches, and then there's what's happening with Charlotte - a host who is now not only in a new/different host body, but a body that just so happens to be a replica of a human, trying to mimic that human in the real world. There are bound to be glitches in that scenario as well, if only from the mental pressure of having to pretend to be someone else. In other words, "performing" as Charlotte 24/7 is starting to screw with her brain/programming. This is the explanation being given on-screen, and there's really no reason to question it at this point, especially considering its thematic resonance.

---

I am not buying it is Dolores in Charlotte's head anymore. Pretty sure that is how it was at the end of season 2 but how would Dolores make a copy of herself? Did she have blank pearls as well? I think she got back in her own body and plugged another host into the Hale body.

We'll see though. It's a fun trip.

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I think we were explicitly told at some point that Teddy's pearl would end up blank from uploading it to the Valley Beyond.

Teddy Perkins said:

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TCTTS said:

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Teddy Perkins said:

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Differences between the two videos from Charlotte to her son.

---

Man, I honestly don't know what to make of that. I can't tell if one version is simply written longer so as to better-fill the scene, or if the differences really are purposeful, hinting that one is a simulation.

---

The first time we see the recording, Charlotte says,

Quote:

---

"This is Charlotte Elizabeth Hale. This is a message for Nathan. Nathan Hale, my son, I love you so much, buddy. The night that i left, you wanted me to sing you a song. Tuck you in and sing you are song. So I am going to sing it to you now."

---

At the end of the episode, in the video, Charlotte says,

Quote:

---

"This is Charlotte Elizabeth Hale. This is a message for Nathan. Nathan Hale, my son, I haven't always been there for you. There's so many things I need to say. This might be the last time that mommy gets to talk to you. I love you so much, buddy. I am so proud of you, and I am sorry. I am so sorry if I every made you feel like you weren't the most important thing. I was trying to build a life for us. And now I realize none of it even matters. The night that I left, to sing you a song, our song, but I didn't have time, so. So I am going to sing it to you now."

---

To me that doesn't seem like editing to fit the scene. It seems like two different videos. Unfortunately, I think we're dealing with a Rehoboam simulation mirror world.

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I just went back and watched the first time Charlotte watches the video (a little over halfway through the episode), and literally every time it reaches one of the "missing" sentences (which are included in the final time she watches it toward the end of the episode), there's an edit/insert shot of Charlotte looking at the tablet, but us not seeing the video footage on the tablet itself). In other words, I really do think they just edited down the first go-around for time. We're cutting ahead a couple of sentences each time it shows Charlotte looking at the tablet, and us not seeing the video footage itself.

Granted, I could of course be wrong, but the fact that it's not different wording says a lot. The second time features the same sentences as before, just with more sentences in between. That tells me it's an editing thing and likely not a simulation thing.

On that we can 100% agree. No doubt.

Caleb's mugshot from the RICO app includes a buzzcut. Might mean that the shot from the pier contemplating suicide in the same buzzcut is a flashback.

https://www.theringer.com/2020/3/31/21201052/westworld-season-3-episode-3-theories-charlotte-hale-host-dolores-caleb

So has anyone contemplated that perhaps Dolores didn't escape to "the real world", and instead, is in another park.. maybe future world?

Brian Earl Spilner said:

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Brian Earl Spilner said:

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Anyone catch the Matrix reference? This song was playing when Dolores was walking into the party.

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I'm a big Massive Attack fan and caught that in the first few notes. Very cool.

Another good video hitting on theories, clues, timelines, and nuggets.

That one led me to this one and I absolutely LOVE this theory. It makes so much sense...

You'd think working from home I'd have more time for stuff like this, but for some reason I've fallen behind all of y'all on the theories front.

bobinator said:

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You'd think working from home I'd have more time for stuff like this, but for some reason I've fallen behind all of y'all on the theories front.

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Here are the different theories I've seen floated for "who the Hale is she":

• Teddy - last seen beamed to the Valley Beyond
• Abernathy
• Angela
• Armistice
• Akecheta
• Hector
• Clementine
• Lawrence
• Caleb
• Dolores copy
• Dolores copy with Wyatt removed
• Whole cloth new creation possibly pulling traits from hosts Dolores is familiar with

This Ringer article addresses a bunch of these possibilities.

I was hoping the latest AltShiftX episode would be up, as it's usually up by now, but nothing yet...

In the meantime, I thought of a random question earlier today, spurred by Dolores saying that they (the remaining six hosts/pearls) are the last of their kind...

From a purely economical/societal standpoint, why are there no "hosts" - at least that we know of - being used in the real world?

I get why the park exists, and that the secret data to be mined from the guests is so valuable that it's worth the cost of the park itself. But why not also manufacture hosts for the real world, as assistants and caregivers and sex bots and the like? Are they simply too expensive to manufacture? Are they outlawed in the real world due to how life-like they are? Did Rehoboam deem them too much of a risk somehow? Otherwise, why is the real world not populated with controllable, life-like hosts doing all of the menial tasks humans don't want to? What's the in-universe answer when someone from the real world comes back from Westworld and is like, "Why can't I buy one of those for my own house?" Like, why are there not riots in the street for Delos to manufacture hosts for the real world that can work 24-hour shifts, act as security, cook dinner, take out the trash, walk the dog, and then *****at the end of the day, etc?

Has this ever been addressed and I missed it?

(And for the record, the real answer is most likely "because otherwise the show wouldn't exist." I guess I'm just curious if the show has or will come up with in-universe reasoning.)

Along these same lines, a funny observation/question I heard on a podcast recently was someone wondering how the heck Dolores isn't recognized more often in the real world. They compared it to visiting Disney World and then randomly seeing Mickey Mouse or Cinderella out walking the streets of Los Angeles. Not only that, but we know Liam Dempsey Jr. has visited the park, based on the fact that Dolores read his book in The Forge. So how did he or Connells not realize that he's dating the park's most famous attraction?

Granted, I'm sure there's a bit of a psychologcial Clark Kent thing going on, as Dolores *does* look/sound/act totally different in modern clothes, with her hair back, etc. It's also possible that Liam has only ever been to, say, Raj World. And one of the podcasters even compared it to a what-happens-in-Vegas-stays-in-Vegas, bachelor-party-type scenario. Given that only the richest can seemingly even afford Westworld, I get it. It's not totally out of the question that she could go unrecognized. Still, you would think there would be more than one instance in the real world of someone saying/thinking, "I'm almost positive that's the robot chick I spent three days with at Westworld."

TCTTS said:

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In the meantime, I thought of a random question earlier today, spurred by Dolores saying that they (the remaining six hosts/pearls) are the last of their kind...

From a purely economical/societal standpoint, why are there no "hosts" - at least that we know of - being used in the real world?

I get why the park exists, and that the secret data to be mined from the guests is so valuable that it's worth the cost of the park itself. But why not also manufacture hosts for the real world, as assistants and caregivers and sex bots and the like? Are they simply too expensive to manufacture? Are they outlawed in the real world due to how life-like they are? Did Rehoboam deem them too much of a risk somehow? Otherwise, why is the real world not populated with controllable, life-like hosts doing all of the menial tasks humans don't want to? What's the in-universe answer when someone from the real world comes back from Westworld and is like, "Why can't I buy one of those for my own house?" Like, why are there not riots in the street for Delos to manufacture hosts for the real world that can work 24-hour shifts, act as security, cook dinner, take out the trash, walk the dog, and then *****at the end of the day, etc?

Has this ever been addressed and I missed it?

---

I just assume Delos is the only one capable of making the hosts, and they're only interested in making them for the purposes in the parks.

But you're right, the real reason is probably because it's convenient for the show, as in real life, Delos' competitors would probably have made hosts that are 75% as good for menial tasks. Seems like something you could make a boatload of money on.

TCTTS said:

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Along these same lines, a funny observation/question I heard on a podcast recently was someone wondering how the heck Dolores isn't recognized more often in the real world. They compared it to visiting Disney World and then randomly seeing Mickey Mouse or Cinderella out walking the streets of Los Angeles. Not only that, but we know Liam Dempsey Jr. has visited the park, based on the fact that Dolores read his book in The Forge. So how did he or Connells not realize that he's dating the park's most famous attraction?

Granted, I'm sure there's a bit of a psychologcial Clark Kent thing going on, as Dolores *does* look/sound/act totally different in modern clothes, with her hair back, etc. It's also possible that Liam has only ever been to, say, Raj World. And one of the podcasters even compared it to a what-happens-in-Vegas-stays-in-Vegas, bachelor-party-type scenario. Given that only the richest can seemingly even afford Westworld, I get it. It's not totally out of the question that she could go unrecognized. Still, you would think there would be more than one instance in the real world of someone saying/thinking, "I'm almost positive that's the robot chick I spent three days with at Westworld."

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It's a valid point for sure - I guess the only reasoning I can come up with is this :

- Disney World gets 60,000 visitors per day (that's what came up on Google) . Based on what we've seen, I would imagine the 6 parks in Westworld get 1,000-2,000?

- Disney owns all kinds of media, TV channels, etc. Almost every kid knows who Mickey Mouse is, but only a very small fraction have seen him in real life. Delos doesn't do anything like that.

- I highly doubt any of the Westworld advertising would show anything about the storylines. They want the guests to react to things happening, not know it ahead of time. It at most would have included her face, but you wouldn't know any of the backstory to connect it to.


All that being said, yes, there are still people out there that you would imagine would recognize Delores, but I think the Disney/ Mickey Mouse comparison is a big stretch.

A couple of things.

- Do we know there aren't hosts in the real world?

- Part if why they wouldn't recognize Dolores is because most people probably don't really pay attention to what she looks like. I think it's kind of a play on the dehumanizing aspect of the park. They don't recognize her because they didn't even think of her as human enough the first time to be worth remembering. Except for a few people anyway.

CoachRTM said:

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TCTTS said:

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In the meantime, I thought of a random question earlier today, spurred by Dolores saying that they (the remaining six hosts/pearls) are the last of their kind...

From a purely economical/societal standpoint, why are there no "hosts" - at least that we know of - being used in the real world?

I get why the park exists, and that the secret data to be mined from the guests is so valuable that it's worth the cost of the park itself. But why not also manufacture hosts for the real world, as assistants and caregivers and sex bots and the like? Are they simply too expensive to manufacture? Are they outlawed in the real world due to how life-like they are? Did Rehoboam deem them too much of a risk somehow? Otherwise, why is the real world not populated with controllable, life-like hosts doing all of the menial tasks humans don't want to? What's the in-universe answer when someone from the real world comes back from Westworld and is like, "Why can't I buy one of those for my own house?" Like, why are there not riots in the street for Delos to manufacture hosts for the real world that can work 24-hour shifts, act as security, cook dinner, take out the trash, walk the dog, and then *****at the end of the day, etc?

Has this ever been addressed and I missed it?

---

I just assume Delos is the only one capable of making the hosts, and they're only interested in making them for the purposes in the parks.

But you're right, the real reason is probably because it's convenient for the show, as in real life, Delos' competitors would probably have made hosts that are 75% as good for menial tasks. Seems like something you could make a boatload of money on.

---

Yeah, I can definitely buy Delos being the only ones capable of making hosts of that quality. What I can't buy is people and government in the real world, after having visited Westworld, not being up in arms that Delos is keeping the host tech locked away for theme park use only. It seems like hosts in the world would revolutionize socioeconomics. That said, all it would take from the show is a simple, one-line explanation referencing the "host ban of 2041" or whatever, baring the use of hosts in society for whatever reasons they want to come up with. I'd just like to see or hear it addressed in some way, even if off-handedly.

CoachRTM said:

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TCTTS said:

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Along these same lines, a funny observation/question I heard on a podcast recently was someone wondering how the heck Dolores isn't recognized more often in the real world. They compared it to visiting Disney World and then randomly seeing Mickey Mouse or Cinderella out walking the streets of Los Angeles. Not only that, but we know Liam Dempsey Jr. has visited the park, based on the fact that Dolores read his book in The Forge. So how did he or Connells not realize that he's dating the park's most famous attraction?

Granted, I'm sure there's a bit of a psychologcial Clark Kent thing going on, as Dolores *does* look/sound/act totally different in modern clothes, with her hair back, etc. It's also possible that Liam has only ever been to, say, Raj World. And one of the podcasters even compared it to a what-happens-in-Vegas-stays-in-Vegas, bachelor-party-type scenario. Given that only the richest can seemingly even afford Westworld, I get it. It's not totally out of the question that she could go unrecognized. Still, you would think there would be more than one instance in the real world of someone saying/thinking, "I'm almost positive that's the robot chick I spent three days with at Westworld."

---

It's a valid point for sure - I guess the only reasoning I can come up with is this :

- Disney World gets 60,000 visitors per day (that's what came up on Google) . Based on what we've seen, I would imagine the 6 parks in Westworld get 1,000-2,000?

- Disney owns all kinds of media, TV channels, etc. Almost every kid knows who Mickey Mouse is, but only a very small fraction have seen him in real life. Delos doesn't do anything like that.

- I highly doubt any of the Westworld advertising would show anything about the storylines. They want the guests to react to things happening, not know it ahead of time. It at most would have included her face, but you wouldn't know any of the backstory to connect it to.


All that being said, yes, there are still people out there that you would imagine would recognize Delores, but I think the Disney/ Mickey Mouse comparison is a big stretch.

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I found the idea funny more than anything, but yeah, all great points.

bobinator said:

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A couple of things.

- Do we know there aren't hosts in the real world?

- Part if why they wouldn't recognize Dolores is because most people probably don't really pay attention to what she looks like. I think it's kind of a play on the dehumanizing aspect of the park. They don't recognize her because they didn't even think of her as human enough the first time to be worth remembering. Except for a few people anyway.

---

I'm just going by Dolores' own worst about being the last of their kind. If there were hosts in the real world, I would imagine Dolores' goal to be slightly different, i.e. "waking" all the hosts in the real world to the truth, using them to fight a war, etc. But instead, it's being billed as a "Five of us against an entire world of them?" kind of thing.

Maybe Dolores doesn't know everything. I actually think Dolores being super wrong about something will be a key plot mechanic this season.

I do agree with that she'll be wrong about something, which will be a big part of her character arc, etc. But it seems pretty easy to confirm whether Delos has hosts for public use in the real world or not. Now, if there are covert hosts in the real world, that's a different thing altogether. But I'm primarily wondering why hosts aren't a main part of society at this point, and what the in-universe explanation is for why they're not.

Nice little post-episode three deep dive, re: the simulation/mirror world stuff...