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Westworld 3 - 2020
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Last: 3 yr ago by TCTTS
TV Casualty said:
I have reached the point on this show where I think season 2 might have actually been better than season 3.
This season started off strong but I agree, it makes no sense now. I guess I appreciate that no one is good or evil, but there are now no alliances. Everyone is for him or herself.
We had no real revelations this episode, and all characters seemed to regress on development and purpose.
Good fight scenes, and cool blowing an arm off, and yeah EMP kills everything.
But wouldn't that destroy Calebs thumb drive? Maybe that only affects active processors and FPGAs, but i'm pretty sure EMP will alter RAM.
This episode told us nothing new, and two new characters brought a nice fight scene and that's it. Clementine wasn't even a fighter. That was pointless.
Mike Shaw - Class of '03
You know, even Mike Trout strikes out on occasion
I am holding out hope that the last episode works out neatly and maybe has something deeper we haven't figured out yet. I'll be rather disappointed if S3 was just turned out to be a sci-fi action show. I know s2 went a bit off the rails but this could be a rather silly over correction.
I'm not sure they can pull off a big twist at this point. They've got an hour left and then a two year wait.
Brian Earl Spilner said:
So what was up with the Serac hologram that said "The man I was no longer exists"?
I'm calling that Serac is actually the AI
I think it's as simple as Serac changed in the last 20-30-40 years..whatever it is.AgLiving06 said:Brian Earl Spilner said:
So what was up with the Serac hologram that said "The man I was no longer exists"?
I'm calling that Serac is actually the AI
We've seen him be a physical person several times now. He was definitely at Delos, and we see him walk in. He just wasn't in the board room.
And we know that he was physically flying on his plane for most of the "Genre" episode.
And we know that he was physically flying on his plane for most of the "Genre" episode.
Solomon was about to warn Caleb of something right when the EMP hit. "I must warn you...." There's still some mystery there.
He was going to tell him that the plan that succeeds in defeating Serac fails to actually save humanity.
Serac has been pretty worthless in this show. Dolores has done everything she has wanted with very little resistance.
Apparently, he doesn't think that it's important to have safeguards on rehoboam so that one person couldn't just go to the control panel and do whatever he wanted.
Then he has a compound with the prior system and he guards it with a total of 3 people.
It doesn't work out when you build up Serac as such a powerful and all knowing person and then we watch him fail quite easily at almost every turn.
His only plan has been to use Maeve and she should have turned on him 3 episodes ago.
Apparently, he doesn't think that it's important to have safeguards on rehoboam so that one person couldn't just go to the control panel and do whatever he wanted.
Then he has a compound with the prior system and he guards it with a total of 3 people.
It doesn't work out when you build up Serac as such a powerful and all knowing person and then we watch him fail quite easily at almost every turn.
His only plan has been to use Maeve and she should have turned on him 3 episodes ago.
Why would he have another hologram of himself on an empty plane where nobody can see him?Bregxit said:Brian Earl Spilner said:
We've seen him be a physical person several times now. He was definitely at Delos, and we see him walk in. He just wasn't in the board room.
And we know that he was physically flying on his plane for most of the "Genre" episode.
How do we know? Did he interact with anything?
I guess the explanation is that humans are so predictable that he hasn't needed any backup plans in a while.
Could Serac be the brother that has schizophrenia and not his brother? That could be a twist since we're still expecting one. I'm trying to remember if we've seen anyone that knew them well enough as adults besides Liam.
So it's a Fight Club thing? His real body is on ice and his alternative personality is in a host?
You'd need to go back and watch the scenes with Liams dad again to see if he talks to both of them
I meant more that Jean Mi was the sane one and Serac locked him up to further his own plans.
Maybe Serac was killed by the attach on Paris, and his brother rebuilt him later and never told him.
Ooh. That could be interesting.
Although we've never seen them have the Delos tech to create hosts.
Although we've never seen them have the Delos tech to create hosts.
I assume that whatever the big twist/cliffhanger is, that it will have to do with Serac.
Agreed, I think there has to be something else going on with him.
Serac is Ford. The entire season was a simulation that kicked off after his death.
Rewatching the latest episode last night, I finally figured out what's bugging me so much heading into the finale...
Basically, contrary to an opinion expressed above, I *do* think everyone's motivations makes sense. I totally get the logic of the characters and the season so far. My issue is that when certain characters declared their new goals in the latest episode, someone else already shared those goals and has been actively pursuing them for weeks now, if not seasons. Case in point...
- When William proclaimed that he's going to undo his greatest mistake by wiping hosts off the face of the earth, it makes total sense and I completely understand his motivation. Yet, it comes across as stale because that's exactly what Serac is already doing. It would be one thing if there was no Serac, and William made such a grand proclamation. William vs the hosts/Dolores in the real world?! Heck yeah! But instead, it's like, "Ok, cool, but there's this other major character who's already doing exactly that. Way to be original."
- When Charlores suddenly turned on Dolores, it would have been AWESOME if there wasn't already a character in Maeve who has continually expressed the exact same motivations, for nearly the exact same reasons. Again, I understand Charlores' motivation, and her arc has easily been one of the most compelling this season, but to end up on seemingly the exact same page as Maeve just doesn't have the same punch. It doesn't feel like two character aligning in an interesting way, it feels like the same two plot points now running parallel to each other.
Both instances/turns are great in a vacuum, but ultimately end up feeling redundant given the current pieces on the chess board. Add to that certain muddled character dynamics, and I just wish things were a bit clearer and defined going into the finale. The end of season two promised, as I've said before, a Magneto vs Xavier dynamic in Dolores vs Bernard that I was really excited for. It was a clear clash of ideologies that made total sense and had the promise of great drama. Yet, they haven't capitalized on that dynamic one bit this season. Instead, we've been given this whole, muddled, Dolores vs Maeve thing that no one really cares about. In other words, IMO, there are simply too many characters on the board right now, and too many characters who either share the same motivations in redundant fashion, or shouldn't be so diametrically opposed in the first place... especially when the most compelling dynamics and oppositions are so obvious. We need either William OR Serac, Maeve OR Charlotte. And who knows, maybe that will be taken care of in Sunday's episode one way or another.
Overall, I love the complex plotting of this show. I love the puzzle narrative. And I certainly don't mind that there are no outright good/bad characters. But I need some kind of clear-cut, easy-to-digest, oppositional dynamic at the show's core, and I need the show to stick with it. If Dolores and Bernard are meant to be Magneto and Xaveir, DO THAT. If Dolores is meant to be Ceasar from the Planet of the Apes trilogy, DO THAT. I don't mean copy those relationships and dynamics exactly, I simply mean, at this point in show's run, they need to pick a lane and stick with it. Let's get the pieces in place, and then let's see it all play out over the next two or three seasons. Instead, the show seems more interested in constantly rearranging and adding pieces and motivations, to the point where its hindering the core drama of the show.
Basically, contrary to an opinion expressed above, I *do* think everyone's motivations makes sense. I totally get the logic of the characters and the season so far. My issue is that when certain characters declared their new goals in the latest episode, someone else already shared those goals and has been actively pursuing them for weeks now, if not seasons. Case in point...
- When William proclaimed that he's going to undo his greatest mistake by wiping hosts off the face of the earth, it makes total sense and I completely understand his motivation. Yet, it comes across as stale because that's exactly what Serac is already doing. It would be one thing if there was no Serac, and William made such a grand proclamation. William vs the hosts/Dolores in the real world?! Heck yeah! But instead, it's like, "Ok, cool, but there's this other major character who's already doing exactly that. Way to be original."
- When Charlores suddenly turned on Dolores, it would have been AWESOME if there wasn't already a character in Maeve who has continually expressed the exact same motivations, for nearly the exact same reasons. Again, I understand Charlores' motivation, and her arc has easily been one of the most compelling this season, but to end up on seemingly the exact same page as Maeve just doesn't have the same punch. It doesn't feel like two character aligning in an interesting way, it feels like the same two plot points now running parallel to each other.
Both instances/turns are great in a vacuum, but ultimately end up feeling redundant given the current pieces on the chess board. Add to that certain muddled character dynamics, and I just wish things were a bit clearer and defined going into the finale. The end of season two promised, as I've said before, a Magneto vs Xavier dynamic in Dolores vs Bernard that I was really excited for. It was a clear clash of ideologies that made total sense and had the promise of great drama. Yet, they haven't capitalized on that dynamic one bit this season. Instead, we've been given this whole, muddled, Dolores vs Maeve thing that no one really cares about. In other words, IMO, there are simply too many characters on the board right now, and too many characters who either share the same motivations in redundant fashion, or shouldn't be so diametrically opposed in the first place... especially when the most compelling dynamics and oppositions are so obvious. We need either William OR Serac, Maeve OR Charlotte. And who knows, maybe that will be taken care of in Sunday's episode one way or another.
Overall, I love the complex plotting of this show. I love the puzzle narrative. And I certainly don't mind that there are no outright good/bad characters. But I need some kind of clear-cut, easy-to-digest, oppositional dynamic at the show's core, and I need the show to stick with it. If Dolores and Bernard are meant to be Magneto and Xaveir, DO THAT. If Dolores is meant to be Ceasar from the Planet of the Apes trilogy, DO THAT. I don't mean copy those relationships and dynamics exactly, I simply mean, at this point in show's run, they need to pick a lane and stick with it. Let's get the pieces in place, and then let's see it all play out over the next two or three seasons. Instead, the show seems more interested in constantly rearranging and adding pieces and motivations, to the point where its hindering the core drama of the show.
Damn it. I know how to spell it! I swear!
They completely sidelined Bernard this season, which bugs me, but I'm hoping he's coming back in a big way next season.
He shot a real life person in the headBregxit said:Brian Earl Spilner said:
We've seen him be a physical person several times now. He was definitely at Delos, and we see him walk in. He just wasn't in the board room.
And we know that he was physically flying on his plane for most of the "Genre" episode.
How do we know? Did he interact with anything?
What if the reason that we are seeing multiple people play the same roles is that half of what we are seeing is simulation?
We see Hale in the Delos boardroom twice in meetings about taking the company private. One time she has the votes, and another time Serac has killed a board member and has already taken control of the company. But Hale is wearing the exact same outfit in both scenes. (Ringer article pointed this out)
What if Maeve has only fought Delores once (or not at all) ? What if William finds a different "purpose" each time they run the simulation?
We see Hale in the Delos boardroom twice in meetings about taking the company private. One time she has the votes, and another time Serac has killed a board member and has already taken control of the company. But Hale is wearing the exact same outfit in both scenes. (Ringer article pointed this out)
What if Maeve has only fought Delores once (or not at all) ? What if William finds a different "purpose" each time they run the simulation?
This was pretty much my point in my post after the episode.
The show is trying too hard, going in too many directions, some in circles, some with no back drop etc.
Have a nice coherent story and stick with it. Complications, even some red herrings are fine, but have it be all pointing in the same direction with things actually moving. When you look at what's actually been accomplished this season, it's next to nothing. Maeve aligned with Serac and then what? Delores is gonna bring down humans, in 7 screen hours how far has she gotten? TMIB made a proclamation but has done nothing with it. Serac took over the company, that's about the most impactful thing that has happened outside of the multiple delores reveal. in what amounts to the time of 4 regular length movies. Maeve killed, comes back to life, Charlotte basically killed comes back to life, Delores lost an arm, will have that back next week etc.
The more I watch this season the more I feel like it's a giant placeholder stretch to get us to the real action in the (presumed) final season next year.
The show is trying too hard, going in too many directions, some in circles, some with no back drop etc.
Have a nice coherent story and stick with it. Complications, even some red herrings are fine, but have it be all pointing in the same direction with things actually moving. When you look at what's actually been accomplished this season, it's next to nothing. Maeve aligned with Serac and then what? Delores is gonna bring down humans, in 7 screen hours how far has she gotten? TMIB made a proclamation but has done nothing with it. Serac took over the company, that's about the most impactful thing that has happened outside of the multiple delores reveal. in what amounts to the time of 4 regular length movies. Maeve killed, comes back to life, Charlotte basically killed comes back to life, Delores lost an arm, will have that back next week etc.
The more I watch this season the more I feel like it's a giant placeholder stretch to get us to the real action in the (presumed) final season next year.
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So put a little more simply for the "no talent bum/how did you get in here/"Next!"/someone call security" crowd, from the standpoint of a storyteller that tells stories, the show would do well by settling into a more concrete concept at this point?
oragator said:
This was pretty much my point in my post after the episode.
The show is trying too hard, going in too many directions, some in circles, some with no back drop etc.
Have a nice coherent story and stick with it. Complications, even some red herrings are fine, but have it be all pointing in the same direction with things actually moving. When you look at what's actually been accomplished this season, it's next to nothing. Maeve aligned with Serac and then what? Delores is gonna bring down humans, in 7 screen hours how far has she gotten? TMIB made a proclamation but has done nothing with it. Serac took over the company, that's about the most impactful thing that has happened outside of the multiple delores reveal. in what amounts to the time of 4 regular length movies. Maeve killed, comes back to life, Charlotte basically killed comes back to life, Delores lost an arm, will have that back next week etc.
The more I watch this season the more I feel like it's a giant placeholder stretch to get us to the real action in the (presumed) final season next year.
Exactly. While I do think the highs of this season have equaled or surpassed the highs of the first two seasons, overall it's starting to either feel like half of a season got stretched into eight episodes, or a season and a half got shortened into eight episodes. I can't quite put my finger on it, but either way, the pacing feels off.
Also, you might have missed the news last week, but the plan is for SIX seasons. I don't know that they'll actually get there - my guess is that seasons five and six are shortened and combined into one, final season - but either way, season four likely isn't the last. I'm betting it's the penultimate season, though.
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