Funny thing is, IGN, who gives notoriously tough reviews, gave it a 10/10.

Teddy Perkins said:

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TV Casualty said:

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Blatant Disregard said:

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MW03 said:

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So I took the Bernard is the only one that's irreplaceable because he's the only pearl that isn't a copy of Delores.One weird thing I noticed was that they said the first versions of the AI brain were named Saul, and then David, and that the current version was Solomon. Those are the first three Kings of Israel and Judah.

Rehoboam was the son of Solomon, and the King of Judah. However, there was a split in the ancient kingdom with Israel choosing Jeroboam instead.

Of course, in Jewish tradition, the Messiah is someone who is said will come from the Davidic Line and lead the Hebrew people. In the Christian tradition, Jesus is said to be of the Davidic Line and believed to be that Messiah. He is also said to be divine, being of man and God, and being both man and God.

Anyway, where I'm going with this is whether Delores, and specifically her AI, stems from one of the AI brains known as David, Solomon, or Rehoboam, and is therefore of the Davidic line. And is she "divine" since they said they were trying to build a god? Is she man (emotions) and god (intellect) combined?

Interesting that information was revealed on an Easter episode, but I digress.

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Maybe not, but Bernard/Arnold certainly is.

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Connells-delores pointed out to Bernard that he was the only one that is not replaceable. Seemed to insinuate that Bernard is at the center of this plan.

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So I took the "Bernard is the only one that's irreplaceable" statement as he's the only pearl that isn't a copy of Delores.

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Right which calls back to what Arnold told Delores about what is real. It's just with that statement and the everyone has a role to play statement that there is some major play for Bernard to come.

I know that is obvious, but it just seems that his character may have more significance after this episode.

So random aside, but do we know if Anthony Hopkins is coming back at all this season in any capacity?

I feel like he is such a powerful force in the universe and was so compelling as a character that it's disappointing to not see and feel his influence outside of Delores in the larger world.

From Season 1, he had a plan to bring his hosts to sentience, but did it end there? Is Delores upsetting the established order a continuation of his goals, even if she is fully sentient and aware? It's likely not going to happen, but I'd love to see where Ford clashed or interacted with Insite and Rehoboam.

bobinator said:

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I think part of why the release of the info feels off is that it's a huge event, but none of our core characters are really impacted by it. Nobody that we care about is a "regular person" in this world. The closest are Marshawn Lynch and Lena Waithe's characters.

So, in a way it feels like that moment should have meant more, but at the same time it doesn't really matter for our core plot other than being the next step of Dolores' plan.

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That's a really great point.

Teddy Perkins said:

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TCTTS said:

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Dang, that was lightning fast. He's gotta get these ahead of time, right?

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Yeah, HBO sent the first four episodes out all together, and now it looks like they're sending the rest out early as well, but week by week, as The Ringer had both their audio and video recaps up minutes after the episode aired.

That said, Thandie Newton was remotely recording ADR as late as two days ago, so HBO is still finishing the finale, if not additional episodes...

https://instagr.am/p/B-4qm-3DlkF

Teddy Perkins said:

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TV Casualty said:

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Blatant Disregard said:

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MW03 said:

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So I took the Bernard is the only one that's irreplaceable because he's the only pearl that isn't a copy of Delores.One weird thing I noticed was that they said the first versions of the AI brain were named Saul, and then David, and that the current version was Solomon. Those are the first three Kings of Israel and Judah.

Rehoboam was the son of Solomon, and the King of Judah. However, there was a split in the ancient kingdom with Israel choosing Jeroboam instead.

Of course, in Jewish tradition, the Messiah is someone who is said will come from the Davidic Line and lead the Hebrew people. In the Christian tradition, Jesus is said to be of the Davidic Line and believed to be that Messiah. He is also said to be divine, being of man and God, and being both man and God.

Anyway, where I'm going with this is whether Delores, and specifically her AI, stems from one of the AI brains known as David, Solomon, or Rehoboam, and is therefore of the Davidic line. And is she "divine" since they said they were trying to build a god? Is she man (emotions) and god (intellect) combined?

Interesting that information was revealed on an Easter episode, but I digress.

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Maybe not, but Bernard/Arnold certainly is.

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Connells-delores pointed out to Bernard that he was the only one that is not replaceable. Seemed to insinuate that Bernard is at the center of this plan.

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So I took the "Bernard is the only one that's irreplaceable" statement as he's the only pearl that isn't a copy of Delores.

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Bernard is also the only host/human "hybrid," so to speak, which I think is key is well.

Teddy Perkins said:

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Possible that Serac has access to hosts?

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Wow, that's crazy. Absolutely the same guy. Makes me wonder if Pom Klementieff's Martel was a host as well, and we could see her again.

john32f said:

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So random aside, but do we know if Anthony Hopkins is coming back at all this season in any capacity?

I feel like he is such a powerful force in the universe and was so compelling as a character that it's disappointing to not see and feel his influence outside of Delores in the larger world.

From Season 1, he had a plan to bring his hosts to sentience, but did it end there? Is Delores upsetting the established order a continuation of his goals, even if she is fully sentient and aware? It's likely not going to happen, but I'd love to see where Ford clashed or interacted with Insite and Rehoboam.

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No rumors so far of Hopkin's return, but just for clarification, Ford's plan was 100% that Dolores/the sentient hosts would escape and take on humanity. Ford came to be discouraged with humanity in general, believed that they had grown stagnant, and lacked a true struggle/the ability to change. So by releasing the hosts into the wild, Ford was trying to awaken something in humanity. I assume in much the same way the hosts needed suffering to be sentient, so too does humanity, in a way. In Ford's mind, if humanity can win in the end, good for them, but if not, the hosts deserve to rule.

TCTTS said:

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Teddy Perkins said:

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Possible that Serac has access to hosts?

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Wow, that's crazy. Absolutely the same guy. Makes me wonder if Pom Klementieff's Martel was a host as well, and we could see her again.

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I don't think this confirms him as a host. Could just be someone like a producer or something to whom they gave some cameos. Though, this show has been pretty intentional about stuff.

What episode did we see the 3rd and 4th images?

Quote:

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Ford came to be discouraged with humanity in general, believed that they had grown stagnant, and lacked a true struggle/the ability to change. So by releasing the hosts into the wild, Ford was trying to awaken something in humanity. I assume in much the same way the hosts needed suffering to be sentient, so too does humanity, in a way. In Ford's mind, if humanity can win in the end, good for them, but if not, the hosts deserve to rule.

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Interesting perspective, since that's exactly what Dolores just forced on everyone.

redline248 said:

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TCTTS said:

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Teddy Perkins said:

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Possible that Serac has access to hosts?

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Wow, that's crazy. Absolutely the same guy. Makes me wonder if Pom Klementieff's Martel was a host as well, and we could see her again.

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I don't think this confirms him as a host. Could just be someone like a producer or something to whom they gave some cameos. Though, this show has been pretty intentional about stuff.

What episode did we see the 3rd and 4th images?

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The third image is from season 1, ep. 6. The last pic is from season 1, ep. 2.

Teddy Perkins said:

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redline248 said:

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TCTTS said:

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Teddy Perkins said:

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Possible that Serac has access to hosts?

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Wow, that's crazy. Absolutely the same guy. Makes me wonder if Pom Klementieff's Martel was a host as well, and we could see her again.

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I don't think this confirms him as a host. Could just be someone like a producer or something to whom they gave some cameos. Though, this show has been pretty intentional about stuff.

What episode did we see the 3rd and 4th images?

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The third image is from season 1, ep. 6. The last pic is from season 1, ep. 2.

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Would Ford (i.e. the park) contract out hosts to people in the real world?

Present company included?

redline248 said:

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Present company included?

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I have a hierarchy of dorks.

We are multiple levels below people who create youtube videos to analyze tv shows and be critical without knowing the full story.

But we're definitely above the outdoor board.

I haven't listened to the recappables yet this week, but in the past they have sometimes tended to not like episodes that didn't go the way they were expecting. Not sure if that's the case here, but it's something I've noticed.

mazag08 said:

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TCTTS said:

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Man, The Recappables guys eviscerated this episode. They're usually almost universally complimentary/enthusiastic, but are basically at a loss here, and able to express the problems with this episode far better than I could. The more I've thought about it, I really do think this was one of the worst episodes of the series for me...

https://www.theringer.com/2020/4/12/21218645/westworld-s3e5-genre

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That's why I don't watch that garbage, nor care what a bunch of dorks think.

This episode was awesome and will look even better as a piece of the whole puzzle.

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They're guys who write for The Ringer and write about sports as well. If there was anyone out there who was the equivalent of us here on TexAgs - sports fans on an entertainment message board - it would be these guys. Except they're getting paid to do this and we're not. I'm of course not saying they're the definitive deciders and opinion holders, but they're smart, experienced guys who very rationally break all of this stuff down in a fun and entertaining way. I know you won't, but if you actually listened to them, they bring up a ton of very good points. Doesn't mean you have to agree with them. But they're huge fans who just want the show to be good, and this whole "garbage"/"bunch of dorks" take is incredibly lazy, flippant, and the kind of thing someone insecure in their own opinion would say.

He hasn't listened to the podcast. So what he's stating isn't an opinion, it's uninformed nothingness. I'm not objecting to his thoughts on the episode itself. I'm objecting to him prematurely calling something "garbage" that he hasn't even heard.

For once, we agree.

So The Recappables does two Westworld podcasts every week: a recap podcast immediately following Sunday night's Westworld episode, and then a Wednesday podcast focusing on theories, based on everything learned in Sunday night's episode.

In today's podcast, they had a pretty cool theory...

https://www.theringer.com/2020/4/15/21221905/theories-and-mailbag-from-westworld-s3e5-genre

... and it's basically this...

Maeve overwhelming the simulation in episode two wasn't just a plot point for that episode; it was a way to teach/prepare the audience for Dolores' overall plan: overwhelming Rehoboam's simulation.

The theory is that every time we see the divergence graphic (the black and white circle with the location of the latest divergence), and it shows "arc seconds," Rehoboam is having to create a new simulation. So the divergence graphic is showing how far the simulation has diverged/separated from the real world. And Dolores is trying to split the simulation into so many divergences that it eventually crashes. So, step one was getting everyone off their loops. Step two would then be crashing the system itself. Something along those lines.

They also note that the subtitle for the first episode of the season was, "If you're stuck in a loop, try walking in a straight line." So the idea is that the arc seconds will eventually reach 180 degrees... and 180 degrees results in a straight line across a circle.

So I wonder if Dolores is both in the real world AND in the simulation(s). She copied herself to three other hosts, so who's to say she didn't also copy herself to Rehoboam's simulation (since we know she gained access)? I also wonder if we're headed to a moment in which everything in the "real world" freezes - in the same way it did for Maeve - thus revealing that at least some of what we've been seeing has been in a simulation.

Granted, overall the theory is admittedly half-baked, but I think they could be on to something...

That sounds plausible.

Straight line across a circle, eh?

mazag08 said:

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TCTTS said:

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mazag08 said:

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TCTTS said:

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Man, The Recappables guys eviscerated this episode. They're usually almost universally complimentary/enthusiastic, but are basically at a loss here, and able to express the problems with this episode far better than I could. The more I've thought about it, I really do think this was one of the worst episodes of the series for me...

https://www.theringer.com/2020/4/12/21218645/westworld-s3e5-genre

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That's why I don't watch that garbage, nor care what a bunch of dorks think.

This episode was awesome and will look even better as a piece of the whole puzzle.

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They're guys who write for The Ringer and write about sports as well. If there was anyone out there who was the equivalent of us here on TexAgs - sports fans on an entertainment message board - it would be these guys. Except they're getting paid to do this and we're not. I'm of course not saying they're the definitive deciders and opinion holders, but they're smart, experienced guys who very rationally break all of this stuff down in a fun and entertaining way. I know you won't, but if you actually listened to them, they bring up a ton of very good points. Doesn't mean you have to agree with them. But they're huge fans who just want the show to be good, and this whole "garbage"/"bunch of dorks" take is incredibly lazy, flippant, and the kind of thing someone insecure in their own opinion would say.

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I don't form my beliefs or views from the equivalent of an opinion blog. That doesn't make my take lazy, flippant, or show any insecurity. I enjoyed the episode, enjoy the show as the writers intended.. as a viewer watching and experiencing.. and don't need to be taught, reasoned, or validated by anyone else. That's no knock on those who do enjoy those recap blogs. I thought it was very obvious the tongue in cheek nature of my "dork" comment, but maybe not.

But I do thank you for your presumptions of my internet opinion security.

We still friends?

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This is where you lose me, because, frankly, that just comes across as arrogance. I completely get not wanting to let someone else form or sway your opinion. That makes perfect sense, and I try to remain just as pure/objective in my reactions as well. But I'm not so arrogant as to think that there's nothing I can learn from other people's perspectives or expertise. It's not binary, and it has nothing to do with "validation." No one's telling you how you're supposed to feel or how you're supposed to react. But there *are* people out there smarter than either of us when it comes to understanding filmmaking technique, story mechanics, the "language" of Westworld, etc. It's not all just opinion-based snobbery and people trying to make you feel bad for feeling the way you do. It's more technical than that; more often than not, it's people explaining why something didn't work for them, and doing so in a very objective fashion, based on their story-telling knowledge, which is exactly what it felt like The Recappables guys did in that podcast. Especially considering they brought in guest-host Sean Fennessey for that particular episode, who is one of the best, most knowledgeable, objective, and down-to-earth critics in the business.

And look, if you don't give a sh*t about any of that, that's fine. I get it. A big part of it is that I'm just getting really, really tired of the way people often bluntly react to things around here, especially after having spent so much time on forum 16 as of late, soaking up as much covid news as I can. So I'm admittedly more testy than usual. But I watched Sunday's episode, I didn't enjoy it the first go around, and I tried my best to explain why, in as level-headed manner as I could. And then when I saw so many people here have the opposite reaction, I made the effort to watch the episode again, come back here, find common ground, and essentially say, "Yeah, it was definitely better the second time." So it just irks me when someone is then like, "Ugh! Garbage! Bunch'a dorks!" in reaction to some very level-headed critique from guys who know the show backwards and forwards, probably better than anyone here, are huge fans, and aren't at all trying to sway anyone's opinion or look down on them for liking it. They even opened up their latest podcast linked to above by saying they got a ton of emails in response to Sunday's episode, that it was 50/50 people who hated it vs loved it, and then the guys were basically like, "We probably came across as too harsh, and we're glad so many of you liked it." In other words, again, no one is trying to tell you how to think.

One thing bugging me is when Dolores gets shot. Sh's been shot twice this season, with very different reactions. Fist time she bleeds like crazy, collapses in the tunnel, found by Caleb, and ends up in the ambulance. Second time the bullets go right through her and she doesn't even flinch. Why such different results? Faking? Trying to recruit Caleb? One a simulation and not in the real world? Something is up with that.

Someone - I can't remember who, maybe one of the weekly YouTube videos - said she was faking it the first go around, with the ambulance and all that, as a means to "lure" Caleb. But I don't know how much sense that makes. Either way, I agree that it's super confusing.

I also don't understand why Maeve is still susceptible to bullets/sword wounds. Why can't she just turn down her pain receptors like Dolores did, especially when Maeve is the one who can basically control all other hosts/electronics?

YellowPot_97 said:

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One thing bugging me is when Dolores gets shot. Sh's been shot twice this season, with very different reactions. Fist time she bleeds like crazy, collapses in the tunnel, found by Caleb, and ends up in the ambulance. Second time the bullets go right through her and she doesn't even flinch. Why such different results? Faking? Trying to recruit Caleb? One a simulation and not in the real world? Something is up with that.

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Whatever the plot demands. Show doesn't know what it wants to be (terminator robots or not).

She could have been faking it to recruit Caleb, but it also could matter if a critical system gets hit or not. Hard to say.

With Maeve though, I don't think we know how much control of her own body she does and doesn't have. We've already seen that Serac can turn her off.

I haven't kept up with all the theories but I thought this most recent episode was awesome. Best episode of the season with episode 1 being a close 2nd.

That's so funny, because every time we're there, or in the freezer basement, and there's some random, buck naked man or woman just standing there, letting it all hang out, I can't help but wonder - every time - the kind of person who seeks out that specific kind of extra work.