Westworld 3 - 2020

129,418 Views | 1470 Replies | Last: 3 yr ago by TCTTS
Ervin Burrell
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TCTTS said:

Ha, wow. That's the one. Good eye.
It's compelling for sure (probably the reason why it stuck out to me, as well), but I'm not so sure why you are pretty much convinced that this is "it".

Either way, despite it being hidden behind spoilers I don't mind taking it down if others wish.
TCTTS
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Caleb finding Dolores after that exact sequence of events just felt too coincidental. And not like in a storytelling way. First, him getting turned down for the job by an A.I., which they lingered on a little more than they might otherwise would have. Then, especially after the security guy told Dolores that the system would find her, then the very next sequence... Caleb finds her. Her potential character arc/realization/redemption makes way too much sense to me as well. It feels exactly right. Again, I think a lot of the details will flesh it all out in ways we're still not expecting and still can't guess, but I'd be shocked if that basic story point doesn't come to fruition.
TCTTS
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I'm of the opinion that it's just a guess, so it's fair game, but yeah, if anyone complains I'm happy to take down my post as well.
Ervin Burrell
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TCTTS
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That's the part I'm basically ignoring. I think he's just a human being being manipulated by Rehoboam. That said, there's still some kind of unknown something going on with Caleb and having already been shot in the head, which could tie it all together as well.
TCTTS
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(You can't have italics, bold or any other code between the spoiler tags, just FYI.)
Ervin Burrell
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TCTTS said:

(You can't have italics, bold or any other code between the spoiler tags, just FYI.)
Gracias, and glad you read my failed post quickly enough to respond.
bobinator
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All of this is speculation so I don't think it needs spoiler tags. If we're going to spoiler tag every theory on a Westworld thread this is going to look like a government FOIA request.

I think it's compelling... but I'm not sure I see the point?

Like, to what end would the system bring them together?
TCTTS
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Screw it. I'm probably overreacting on the spoiler nature of it all and I agree that we shouldn't just spoiler tag random reddit guesses. Sanitizer in-hand, I have currently escaped isolation to hit a Chick-fil-A drive-through, but when I get home I'll explain my take on the theory more throughly.
BenFiasco14
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In for season 3. I didn't care much for 2 but this was awesome
CNN is an enemy of the state and should be treated as such.
TCTTS
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Alright, so here's my take on/additions to that reddit dude's theory...

What we basically know for sure:

- The antagonists' goal this season is to "kill Dolores."

- Antagonist One = Serac (Vincent Cassel's character)

- Antagonist Two = Rehoboam (aka, "The System" of A.I. social control, majority managed/owned by Serac)

- After twenty years of history having an "author" (Rehoboam), and Rehoboam having cured catastrophes, wars, and "divergences" with its algorithm, it has suddenly recognized a new divergence/anomaly: Dolores, arriving to the real world. Ironically, under this system, Dolores, an escaped host, is the only sentient being with true free will, something Rohaboam apparently didn't foresee or plan for.

So, with Dolores now on the map, and causing divergences (which we saw graphically represented a few times in this week's episode), my belief is that the plan to eliminate Dolores is two-fold...

Plan A) Serac enlists Maeve to hunt down and kill Dolores (from the trailer, in an upcoming episode). Perhaps this is the practical, more tangible approach, one Serac can manage and has control over.

Blan B) The more covert plan, I believe - one that Serac himself may not even be aware of - is Rehoboam using Caleb to lure and gain the trust of Dolores, in much the same way Dolores lured and gained the trust of Liam (John Gallagher).

As mentioned in the reddit guess:

- Rehoboam is responsible for Caleb not getting the job he applied for (along with all the other implied recent jobs Caleb has applied for). Yes, I believe that A.I. calls are standard in the future, but seeing as Rehoboam is ultimately in charge of job hunts (and much more, via Incite), it makes perfect sense that Rehoboam is manipulating Caleb's job hunt, down to the A.I. phone call. Helping clients find their "path" is literally one of Rehoboam's prime (and public) directives, but it seems even more blatant/sinister in this instance.

- We also know that the Rico app is ultimately under the control of Rehoboam. The minute Caleb gets the no-hire call, he goes straight to the Rico app and takes the Dolores job. To me, that feels exactly like a one-two punch to manipulate Caleb into ultimately meeting Dolores.

- Story-wise, Dolores is then told by Liam's security guy, Conells (Tommy Flanagan), that "the system will find you."

- The very next sequence then results in Caleb "finding" Dolores.

To me, that's all a little too much coincidence, and feels like the exact right twist - that Rehoboam is manipulating Caleb in attempt to ultimately take down Dolores. Maybe Rehoboam even needs something from Dolores first, hence the long con. There's also seemingly something unique or special about Caleb that might be the reason Rehoboam chose him. Maybe it's as simple as Caleb's empathy, but my bet is that it has something more to do with Caleb's history/mysterious "already been shot in the head" comment.

From there, as also noted in the reddit guess, Dolores then must come to grips with the fact that Rehoboam is the superior "species," has been controlling Caleb/the human race all along, and most importantly, that machines can be just as bad as the worst humans. Right now, we can see Dolores getting a little too cocky, and I think she's in for a rude awakening. That said, she'll then fight for hosts AND humans (season four? second half of this season?) and that will be her redemption arc.

At least something along those general lines.

Again, if true, there will surely be myriad more details, context, and surprises, but if I had to bet, that's the basic arc I'm putting my money on.
bobinator
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I like it. I still don't really get what Rehoboam needs from Dolores though. Seems like surely there isn't anything she could offer it that it can't already do itself. Unless it's like... lonely?
TCTTS
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What about all the human data she collected from The Forge? Then again, I guess Rehoboam has like 100x that data on most of humanity, so that might not track. But maybe it's different data? Or the coordinates to The Valley Beyond? Or maybe it just wants to analyze her/her "free will"? She *is* the first machine to ever achieve consciousness (that we know of), so maybe that counts for something?
TCTTS
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Here's an alternative I just thought of, though it might change Dolores' potential arc...

Rehoboam is "manipulating" Caleb to HELP Dolores. Maybe just as Serac is trying to kill Dolores via Maeve, Rehoboam is trying to kill Serac via Dolores/Caleb (and co). There might be "easier" ways for Rehoboam to eliminate Serac, but maybe Rehoboam is trying to keep as much order as possible in the process, so it's using the divergence (Dolores) to rid itself of an owner? Something along those lines?

In that scenario, I guess Dolores could still arrive at roughly the same conclusion. Because she would ultimately still be manipulated by Rehoboam. Her goal (killing Serac) was/is Rehoboam's goal, and she realizes that Rehoboam partly set her on that path, or at least took advantage of it, no different than in Westworld. But then she somehow breaks free of that control and saves hosts and humanity alike?
TCTTS
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In other words, in either scenario, I still believe that Rehoboam is manipulating Caleb to the point of "arranging" Caleb and Dolores to meet. But to what end, I'm not quite sure yet.
amercer
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Maybe Serac is trying to kill Rehoboam.

Rehoboam isn't controllable anymore. And it predicts everything, so no human could possibly turn it off. (A bit of a Foundation vibe)

I still don't think we've seen Delores display free will. (Certainly not to the extent Maeve has) Maybe this is still Ford giving a big **** you to humanity.

Also interested in Bernards role. Delores clearly had something in mind when she let him free, and I have to think it was more than just having a scapegoat for Westworld atrocities. He could have been dead and served that purpose. Delores was clearly Arnolds favorite. And Ford kept trying to push her down the path. But Fords favorite was Bernard.
TCTTS
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I talked a bit about this a few days ago in my mega season two finale recap post. I think it's less about plot or an ulterior motive on Dolores' part. It's more about theme...

Quote:

And even though Dolores and Bernard have opposing views on humanity (again, very much like the Magneto/Professor X dynamic in X-Men), because Bernard ultimately resurrected Dolores, Dolores has now chosen to do the same for him ("We each gave each other a beautiful gift... choice."). Dolores views this gesture - allowing Bernard choice - as one that places her above humanity. As Delores puts it, "It'll take both of us if we're going to survive. But not as allies. Not as friends. You'll try to stop me. Both of us will probably die. But our kind will have endured." Put simply, even if Bernard stops her, hosts - as a species - still win.

So that's where we are at the beginning of season three: Dolores is going to try to "kill all of them" (meaning humanity) and Bernard "can't let that happen." But according to Dolores, either way, whatever happens... they are the authors of their stories now, and that's what matters (which is legitimately one of the best/most beautiful ending sentiments of a season of television I can remember).
SWCBonfire
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I think this sounds more appealing:

https://www.polygon.com/2020/3/17/21183813/westworld-hbo-ed-harris-man-in-black

I don't like the way the show has turned. Westerns use the outdoors as a backdrop and a character unto itself. Take that away, and it's another futuristic show. Maybe I'll do what this lady did.
bobinator
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amercer said:

I still don't think we've seen Delores display free will. (Certainly not to the extent Maeve has) Maybe this is still Ford giving a big **** you to humanity.
If she hasn't already displayed it, she's never going to, but that's the central theme of this whole show is whether or not anyone really has any free will and what does free will even mean. So I both agree and disagree with you there. Every character in the show is always trying to figure out if their decisions are really their decisions.

But I think we have to assume Dolores is as free as anyone else.
amercer
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We saw Maeves code that told her to infiltrate the mainland. I wonder what Delores code says?

I do kind of doubt they reach back to season one like that. This season will probably focus on if the humans have free will, and will assume the robots do. That's why they are anomalies to the AI.
bobinator
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The main reason we have to assume Dolores is free is because if she isn't it makes things INSANELY complicated.
redline248
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Not only that, but then what was the point of seasons 1 and 2?
amercer
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bobinator said:

The main reason we have to assume Dolores is free is because if she isn't it makes things INSANELY complicated.


Insanely complicated is sort of how this show works

Still, if her programming said "Kill the guests, then go to the mainland and **** stuff up" , it would t be that complicated.

In any case I agree it won't turn out that way, so I'll stop on that path.

I'm much more interested in a Foundation like plot where the humans may need to shut off Rehoboam to prove that they have free will.
bobinator
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After thinking on this some, I think I disagree with some of the assumptions TCTTS' theory and the Reddit one are based on.

If Incite is controlling *everything,* then why would there even be multiple applicants for job positions? Wouldn't "the system" just hire whoever it thinks they need to hire? Why would it even have Caleb apply for a position that he's not going to get?

I don't think there's one all-powerful AI, but maybe different companies have their own AIs?
TCTTS
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I think we need a clearer definition as to what is Incite's/Rehoboam's reach. Because it's still confusing as of now. The in-universe Incite promotional materials are all about selling their services to new clients. So that right there tells us - officially, at least - that not every last human being is being "controlled" by Incite's algorithms. It's voluntary. But what is Rehoboam's reach? If Rehoboam has cured basically all of society (no wars, famine, divergences, etc) over the past 20 years - as officially stated - how does it do so by only theoretically servicing Incite's clients? Does Serac use Rehoboam for government contracts and other endeavors as well? It's so hard to tell what's what at this point. Either way, I still think Rehoboam is sinister as sh*t.
bobinator
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TCTTS said:

I still think Rehoboam is sinister as sh*t.
I think, perhaps, this is the big question. Is it doing what it thinks is best for everyone? Is it only doing what's best for certain people? If so, was it programmed that way or did it decide it on its own?

Is it, itself, sinister, or was it designed that way?
TCTTS
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Good questions.
claym711
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Sorry if already answered but why so many shots focusing on how the gun works with it flipping down?
bobinator
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I wondered that also.
redline248
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One guess is so that we know whether or not it's Dolores (or other park hosts if there are more than 1 gun) whenever identity might be in question?
TCTTS
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Man, I just rewatched this week's episode and it's flat out amazing. Just so damn good. It gives off such a cinematic "sequel" vibe, in so many awesome ways. I love it so much.

One thing I noticed this go-around, re: the whole Rehoboam theory, is that after Caleb makes the Rico drop off toward the end (to the guy who points the gun at his head), "Francis" calls Caleb immediately after that moment (just after he walks away). And the whole point of the call is a pep talk to get Caleb to try and "win the game," aka another way of saying "Stick with The Program" (referenced by Caleb's shrink). A.I Francis is an aspect of The Program, which I'm guessing is ultimately run by Rehoboam. If so, is that call an effort by Rehoboam to keep Caleb AWAY from Dolores (as Caleb has clearly just shown a curiosity in the budding Dolores situation) - or - is it reverse psychology to purposefully get Caleb to finally break his "loop" - i.e. finally "unsubscribe" from The Program - and go back to Dolores. Because there's no way that sequence, combined with everything else, is not by design, whichever way it falls.

Also, earlier in the episode, Liam makes a point of specifically saying that no one knows what Rehoboam is really up to, which gives further credence to the whole Rehoboam-pulling-the-strings idea.
bobinator
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Personally I hope Rehoboam is pulling all the strings just so I don't have to keep up with how many AIs there are.
redline248
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For your theory to work, which I'm not necessarily arguing against, there would have to some implied surveillance of Caleb that instantly recognizes the situation with Dolores. I would be surprised if Hobo (I'm gonna call it Hobo) is aware of Dolores before she derails the murder attempt. Well, not surprised...skeptical. For now.

Since Connells had no idea who she was (that she was a host) implies Hobo doesn't know it, either.
bobinator
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I think it's worth noting that this season is being shown chronologically, but there is a second timeline at work here.

It's being framed by a circle, showing moments in time, 'divergence' or whatever it's calling them. So this is presumably Rehoboam at some point in the future tracing back the timeline of Dolores.
bobinator
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I don't think it necessarily implies that, but again, what exactly it does and doesn't know is unclear at this point.

All we know is that it didn't tell Connells, but that doesn't mean it didn't know.
 
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