*** WATCHMEN (HBO) ***

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fig96
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In reply to TCTTS • 9:51a, 12/16/19
AG
TCTTS said:
Honestly, I'm not 100% sure. I think I read son or brother at some point and remember being surprised.
They called him Christopher soo...yeah

I gotta say I was pretty happy with the finale, I wasn't sure how they were going to pull all that together in one episode and they did. Enjoyed Veidt's chess move at the end with the squid, although they did seem to have varying levels of impact on people and objects which was a bit odd.

Overall they pretty much stuck the landing, that was a really enjoyable season. Fingers crossed for more...
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WES2006AG
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In reply to fig96 • 9:56a, 12/16/19
AG
fig96 said:

Enjoyed Veidt's chess move at the end with the squid, although they did seem to have varying levels of impact on people and objects which was a bit odd.

That was odd. The squids tore through Lady Trieu's machine easily but not the roofs of the cars the detectives jumped in to or the roof of the theater Angela's grandfather was in with the kids.
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redline248
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11:43a, 12/16/19
AG
I really liked the show, and liked the finale. However, I'm not really a fan of Dr M being killed or the transfer of power. I still don't understand how if he knows he's going to be trapped/killed he doesn't do anything to stop it. Just teleport your whole family from Tulsa. Lady Trieu still gets to kill whitey.

As to transferring power. If she eats the egg which has the DNA, she choosing to become like a god. We all heard what Ozy said about that.
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Sex Panther
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In reply to redline248 • 11:56a, 12/16/19
AG
redline248 said:
I really liked the show, and liked the finale. However, I'm not really a fan of Dr M being killed or the transfer of power. I still don't understand how if he knows he's going to be trapped/killed he doesn't do anything to stop it. Just teleport your whole family from Tulsa. Lady Trieu still gets to kill whitey.

This has always been kind of the problem but also the best part about Dr. Manhattan. He's such an interesting character when you dive into how powerful he is and what he experiences... but at the same time, it's just too powerful. The time thing is really cool and presents so many philosophical and ethical themes to explore, but its really problematic for a writer.

I think the original handled it slightly better than the show, but again it's a tough thing to tackle.
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TCTTS
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In reply to TCTTS • 12:00p, 12/16/19
AG
TCTTS said:
I'm with SP in that I think this is 100% spot on, but will ultimately find it pretty lame. Reading this, the first thing that came to mind, weirdly enough, was Once Upon a Time in Hollywood. That movie is essentially Tarantino giving Sharon Tate her "justice"/happy ending by means of a fantasy "revenge" story. Knowing how Lindelof is approaching this project, he's absolutely going to do roughly the same thing by "righting" the wrongs of white supremacy by means of a fantasy "revenge" story, in which Angela, a black woman, defeats the white supremacists by becoming the most supreme being of all. I mean, just look at the poster below. As the latest Screen Crush video points out, it was there all along. She's literally blue.

The issue I have with this, though, is that she doesn't come across as a character who will elicit the necessary emotional response from the audience when/if this happens. I definitely root for her, but honestly, I don't have much empathy for her. She's already relatively "powerful," all things considered - as a strong black woman who kicks a ton of ass - and has a pretty amazing life, all things considered. The idea of Doctor Manhattan giving his powers to another person would be way more effective if the person on the receiving end wasn't already a "powerful" bad ass. It would be so much better if it was a meek character who had been kicked around all series and we had massive amounts of empathy for. Then, to see that person get "revenge" and kick ass via Doctor Manhattan's powers would be so awesome and fulfilling, a la Captain America's arc in his first movie.

The jury's still out, of course, but knowing all that we know, I don't see how this doesn't happen...


Again, I loved the finale, but this nicely echoes my primary issue (above) with the series as a whole...

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BenFiasco14
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In reply to TCTTS • 12:06p, 12/16/19
AG
Reminds me we never got an answer about what that meteor that crashed near that farmhouse was. Also no clue who the guy in the silver jumpsuit was/what the point of it was.
CNN is an enemy of the state and should be treated as such.
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Definitely Not A Cop
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12:07p, 12/16/19
AG
I loved everything about the ending except for anything to do with Angela's storyline. Just seemed like a hollow ending for her arch.

Still don't really understand how Veidt programmed the clones to give him the horseshoe on his anniversary on the moon, or how he knew he would want to escape that early.

Or what the significance was with lettuce and the Cyklops.
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TCTTS
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In reply to BenFiasco14 • 12:08p, 12/16/19
AG
I think it's obvious, though, that the "meteor" was Ozy in the ship. They just didn't spell it out. But yeah, would have been nice to have at least one more Lube Man wink/mention.
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tk for tu juan
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In reply to BenFiasco14 • 12:08p, 12/16/19
BenFiasco14 said:
Reminds me we never got an answer about what that meteor that crashed near that farmhouse was.

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BenFiasco14
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12:11p, 12/16/19
AG
Ah, sorry. Thanks for pointing that out. I'm a dumbass, as everyone here is already well aware.
CNN is an enemy of the state and should be treated as such.
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Callate Donnie
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In reply to MW03 • 12:50p, 12/16/19
MW03 said:
Should have gone with this one


That was at the end of episode 3 if I'm not mistaken.

Off topic - if you are a BB fan and haven't read The Beastie Book, make that a priority. It's great.
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easttexasaggie04
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12:56p, 12/16/19
AG
I loved this series. There's only one detail that annoyed me....the senators fake country accent.
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easttexasaggie04
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12:58p, 12/16/19
AG
I wonder how long Ozzy was in her garden in gold statue form?
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TCTTS
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In reply to easttexasaggie04 • 1:00p, 12/16/19
AG
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redline248
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In reply to easttexasaggie04 • 1:10p, 12/16/19
AG
easttexasaggie04 said:
I wonder how long Ozzy was in her garden in gold statue form?


2008 or 2009 she visited him in Antarctica. 5 years later her probe flew over Europa. 1 year for the trial. Max 2015 she picked him up. Show is in 2019.
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dummble
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In reply to BenFiasco14 • 1:11p, 12/16/19
AG

Confirmed it was Petey and he is at large
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dummble
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In reply to redline248 • 1:12p, 12/16/19
AG
I was more annoyed that the rescue ship landed ellegantly on Europa for the pick up but crashed into Earth. Maybe I am not.
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Hey...so.. um
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1:14p, 12/16/19
I was slightly disappointed that the 7th Kalvary was basically just a bunch of racists. I really liked the show, but I thought a show with this much depth and gray area wouldn't settle for such a simple plot line like that.

No worries though. It was still a great series and I'm with an above poster that wanted the last shot to just be Angela falling in the water, but I'm okay with the ending the way it was.
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easttexasaggie04
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4:04p, 12/16/19
AG
Now that the season is over I'll say that Jeremy Irons as Ozymandias was 100% my favorite character.
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claym711
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5:15p, 12/16/19
AG
There were good aspects to this series and obviously the Easter eggs were great, but the main plot is so uninspired (skin deep you could say) compared to something like Leftovers - perhaps that was on purpose.
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mazag08
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8:07p, 12/16/19
AG
Not a fan of the transfer of powers.

Other than that.. the entire season..

Bravo
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amercer
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In reply to mazag08 • 8:13p, 12/16/19
AG
I will point out that we never actually saw Dr Manhattans powers transferred to anyone. So technically we don't even know if it was possible.
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MaroonStain
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8:16p, 12/16/19
AG
Neat show.

I would probably feel better about it if I didn't have show fatigue from GOT, Veep, Silicon Valley, Marv Mrs. Maziel, etc, etc.
"Thanks and Gig'em"
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mazag08
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In reply to Hey...so.. um • 8:17p, 12/16/19
AG
I see where you're coming from, but in the end, both the evil white supremacists and the power seeking virtuous lady who was to end them met the same fate. It's very watchmen like that no matter your outlook of good and evil, you likely face the same fate.

But I have to admit, I'd love to see the exact same season.. except switch the white supremacists with Muslim brotherhood types. Me thinks the narrative surrounding the show would have been different.

In the end, the show was amazing. So hard to knock an angle that ultimately worked in the current climate and was true to the nature of the original.
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Hey...so.. um
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In reply to mazag08 • 8:26p, 12/16/19
mazag08 said:
I see where you're coming from, but in the end, both the evil white supremacists and the power seeking virtuous lady who was to end them met the same fate. It's very watchmen like that no matter your outlook of good and evil, you likely face the same fate.

But I have to admit, I'd love to see the exact same season.. except switch the white supremacists with Muslim brotherhood types. Me thinks the narrative surrounding the show would have been different.

In the end, the show was amazing. So hard to knock an angle that ultimately worked in the current climate and was true to the nature of the original.
That is fair. It is an alternate reality so I'm good with anything really and can justify that it is not a commentary on today's political environment (although multiple people associated with the show have said it is). It was just a minor gripe. Great show. I don't want to get this thread sidetracked again so I will just respect your opinion and mostly agree with you.
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amg405
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8:43p, 12/16/19
AG
I've been following this thread throughout and haven't posted yet. Context: I had zero expectations of anything and was 100% unfamiliar with the source material.... didn't even see the movie.

I started out incredibly lost. In fact, this thread may have been the only reason I stayed with it after the first couple of episodes. Toward the middle I thought that it was incredible. The end was.... pretty good? But not great. It doesn't crack the top 5 for me.

One thing I did learn is that from a narrative construction perspective, I am not huge on the scatter shooting the plot absolutely everywhere and then tying it up at the end. I completely agree with those that have said the finale tied up a lot of ends really well... that was cool to see for sure.

The racial stuff frankly didn't bother me but also was meh as a narrative driver. However, I thought that if nothing else, bringing attention to the history of Tulsa was pretty interesting.

I would definitely recommend it as entertaining and well worth the watch but it just doesn't make the top tier for me... maybe not even the top two tiers.
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Aggie_Journalist
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11:48p, 12/16/19
AG
Put me in the camp that really enjoyed the show, especially the themes around Dr. Manhattan and inevitability.

I thought the white supremacist bad guys were necessary for everything to fit together from the hooded justice origin story through to the present time. It also felt a more topical than other "bad guy" groups the show could have drawn from, given Charlottesville (and, shoot, cadets at the Army-Navy game flashing the "Cyclops" klan sign.)

The only thing that bugged me about the finale was the plot armor that popped up over certain characters when the frozen squids started falling.

I can't imagine where they'd go with a season 2. If they kept this a one-time mini series, I'd be happy with what we got.
Thanks and gig'em
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BenFiasco14
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In reply to Aggie_Journalist • 11:51p, 12/16/19
AG
Aggie_Journalist said:
Put me in the camp who really enjoyed the show, especially the themes around Dr. Manhattan and inevitability.

I thought the white supremacist bad guys were necessary for everything to fit together from the hooded justice origin story through to the present time. It also felt a more topical than other "bad guy" groups the show could have drawn from, given Charlottesville (and, shoot, cadets at the Army-Navy game flashing the "Cyclops" klan sign.)

The only thing that bugged me about the finale was the plot armor that popped up over certain characters when the frozen squids started falling.

I can't imagine where they'd go with a season 2. If they kept this a one-time mini series, I'd be happy with what we got.
CNN is an enemy of the state and should be treated as such.
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fig96
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In reply to mazag08 • 11:55p, 12/16/19
AG
mazag08 said:
I see where you're coming from, but in the end, both the evil white supremacists and the power seeking virtuous lady who was to end them met the same fate. It's very watchmen like that no matter your outlook of good and evil, you likely face the same fate.

But I have to admit, I'd love to see the exact same season.. except switch the white supremacists with Muslim brotherhood types. Me thinks the narrative surrounding the show would have been different.

In the end, the show was amazing. So hard to knock an angle that ultimately worked in the current climate and was true to the nature of the original.
We already got like nine seasons of 24

I do like your first point though. No matter their perspective or goal or which side they thought they were on, everyone is a shade of gray in the end.
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Hey...so.. um
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In reply to BenFiasco14 • 4:54a, 12/17/19
BenFiasco14 said:
Aggie_Journalist said:
Put me in the camp who really enjoyed the show, especially the themes around Dr. Manhattan and inevitability.

I thought the white supremacist bad guys were necessary for everything to fit together from the hooded justice origin story through to the present time. It also felt a more topical than other "bad guy" groups the show could have drawn from, given Charlottesville (and, shoot, cadets at the Army-Navy game flashing the "Cyclops" klan sign.)

The only thing that bugged me about the finale was the plot armor that popped up over certain characters when the frozen squids started falling.

I can't imagine where they'd go with a season 2. If they kept this a one-time mini series, I'd be happy with what we got.


He has to be trolling. Great troll to casually throw in the army navy game. Made me laugh.
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hph6203
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11:10a, 12/17/19
AG
Shouldn't she know if she gained his power pretty quickly without being able to walk on water? Considering she would exist at all times?

Not totally dissatisfied with the ending, but I really hope that if there is a season 2 (and there should be) that they don't make her a focal point of the season. I just don't see how an all powerful being can be a compelling character as a main piece.
.
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MW03
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In reply to hph6203 • 11:36a, 12/17/19
AG
hph6203 said:
Shouldn't she know if she gained his power pretty quickly without being able to walk on water? Considering she would exist at all times?

Not totally dissatisfied with the ending, but I really hope that if there is a season 2 (and there should be) that they don't make her a focal point of the season. I just don't see how an all powerful being can be a compelling character as a main piece.

I think that's the genius of the comic and movie. They both do a really good job of marginalizing Dr. Manhattan once he became omnipotent and omnipowerful. The fact that he got all this power, but that the power came with knowledge that made him this metaphysical being that did not seem to care about anything was compelling (and heavy, from a philosophical point of view).

What I think would be a mistake would be for Angela to retain her humanity with Dr. Manhattan's powers, because Jon Osterman wasn't this materialist or nihilist. He had someone he loved. He was a good person. He just couldn't be that same person any more.

On the other hand, if you do have all these machinations to make the right person into Dr. Manhattan, and then it fails because it doesn't account for the reality of being Dr. Manhattan, then I think that's on point with the comic material.
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Duncan Idaho
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12:01p, 12/17/19
Didnt it take a while for dr Manhattan to realize his powers. I seem to remember that he was just a collection of dispersed atoms for a while.
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Teddy Perkins
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3:11p, 12/17/19
AG


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Teddy Perkins
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3:15p, 12/17/19
AG
Also, new ScreenCrush vid out.

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