*** WATCHMEN (HBO) ***

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JJxvi
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C@LAg said:

I rewatched it after having also rewatched the summary video above.... and I have a few theories for this season:

I freely admit when I have read spoilers and when I have not. For this series I have NOT read a single spoiler anywhere online, but will still put my thought in spoiler tags below anyways:

I am betting that is a decoy dead Don Johnson, and he will be the main bad guy. We know they have genetic engineering, so the body could be easily duplicated. Why? Because he is leading the Cavalry. In the original Watchmen, Ozy staged the fake attack on himself to remove suspicion. I am betting this is the same thing. Plus it is very much a comic book trope.

If that was too obvious, my bad. But that is my first (well second ) impression.
TCTTS said:

I do admit it seems way too early to kill him off, and he's definitely not a big enough name for the surprise, "Oh, sh*t, they killed Don Johnson's in the pilot!" reaction. My guess is it's something along the lines of what you're suggesting. There's still seemingly so much more to his character it feels like with that ominous shot of the photograph in his closet, the cocaine, etc.
It's also possible that this is just exactly what Lindelof and Abrams wanted to do with LOST. The original pitch had Michael Keaton as Jack, who was to be killed off in the first episode, but the network didnt like it. I presume, like LOST and the source material, there is also plenty of room to allow the character to appear in flashbacks (ie the Comedian who is dead at the very beginning of the film and graphic novel
TMoney2007
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Nope Nope Nope... I won't read that,... I won't read that,...
JJxvi
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Its pure speculation, not spoilers, I just dont want to upsait any ninnies.
TCTTS
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Pretty cool to read in script form. The (presumably) Ozymandias scene from the pilot...

https://instagr.am/p/B4GVn3jFpZy
TCTTS
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I don't know if any of this is already known to some of you, but I just listened to a podcast segment about the pilot that offered background on a few incredibly interesting points that help establish a bit more context for this world. There's a series tie-in website called "Peteypedia" (https://www.hbo.com/peteypedia), which hosts four documents that essentially establish the points I've outlined below. The documents, two of which I've linked directly to, also feature many more fascinating details not included in my summary, so I recommend reading for yourself when you get the chance. For now, however, here are the broad strokes in advance of tonight's episode...
  • The reason there are no cell phones and no internet in the 2019 version of the Watchmen world goes back to Doctor Manhattan. In the '70s/'80s/original graphic novel, Manhattan helped to develop all kinds of new tech with his powers, but once Ozymandias framed Manhattan (in the events of the graphic novel), and convinced the world that exposure to Manhattan was giving people cancer (which was obviously a lie), the government took control of all new technologies. That, and for a "public beset and traumatized by catastrophes... suddenly so wary of technology... it led to luddite behaviors in the nineties that crippled and destroyed entire industries." So now the government only rolls out certain technologies after extensive tests, carcinogenic scans, etc. In other words, there is apparently no free market for big tech and thus a much slower progression of technology in Doctor Manhattan's absence. However, on August 29, 2019, the month before the pilot takes place, the government finally began to slowly roll out the internet for the first time, starting with government databases and the like.
  • Adrian Veidt, aka Ozymandias, made his last public appearance in 2007 and apparently disappeared in 2012. Now, after a seven-year global search, the FBI has officially declared Veidt "presumed deceased." This is what the newspaper headline we get a brief glimpse of in the pilot, on September 9, 2019, is referring to. So, the FBI has no direct confirmation of Veidt's death, rather, it is merely a concussion reached after a seven-year, three-continent search. Of course, Jeremy Irons' character is almost assuredly Veidt/Ozymandias, so we know he's not dead, but rather "hiding out" at his estate. You can read the article in-full here, which is extremely informative and does a nice job of filling in certain gaps from 1985 (the end of the graphic novel) to 2010: https://www.hbo.com/content/dam/hbodata/series/watchmen/peteypedia/01/veidt-declared-dead.pdf

    (SIDE NOTE: I assumed Veidt's two servants were somehow his creations, based on the male servant thinking that a horseshoe was the proper tool for cake cutting, as if his programming needed refining. I assumed they were some kind humanoid/Westword-ish robots, but an interesting point was brought up in the podcast segment that I forgot about was Doctor Manhattan, at the end of the graphic novel, saying that he might go create some life of his own. Could Veidt's servants someone be connected to Manhattan in that way? Did Doctor Manhattan create Veidt's servants or did Veidt? Were they created at all? Either way, I'm extremely interested to see where that whole plot line leads.)
  • Rorschach's journal was, in fact, released to the public in 1986. According to the Veidt article above, the "New Frontiersman published excerpts from a journal allegedly written by Mr. Kovacs filled with outrageous claims against Mr. Veidt, including accusations of murder and an intimation that he was responsible for both the D.I.E. [note: the "Dimensional Incursion Event," i.e. the killer squid] and Dr. Manhattan's exile from Earth. The journal was dismissed as either a hoax or the expression of mental illness, though it remains an object of fascination for fringe artists and anti-government extremists." One of those "anti-government extremist" groups are obviously the Tulsa white supremacist group The Seventh Kavalry we see in the pilot, and now that Veidt has been declared dead, his "death" is seemingly the catalyst for these extremists emerging again - because they believe Rorschach's journal wholeheartedly, and now the man responsible for the cover-up is seemingly/finally out of the picture. So it's interesting that the "conspiracy theory" believed by the presumed villains in the pilot is actually true in this instance. Further, some members of the FBI seem to buy into the "conspiracy theory" as well, as noted in this extensive memo written by FBI Agent Dale Petey, dated September 1, 2019, which does an incredible job of summarizing many of the big-picture events in the graphic novel from a different perspective, while simultaneously dissecting the validity of Rorschach's journal: https://www.hbo.com/content/dam/hbodata/series/watchmen/peteypedia/01/rorschachs-journal-memo.pdf
  • Also noted in the memo above is that Dan Dreiberg - aka Night Owl - is currently in federal custody. So the pilot gave us a brief glimpse of Doctor Manhattan on Mars, along with a sequence featuring who we can assume to be Adrian Veidt/Ozymandias. Future episodes looks to reintroduce us to Silk Spectre II - aka Laurie Jupiter - now an FBI agent who goes by "Laurie Blake" (played by Jean Smart), as she has since taken the last name of her father, Edward Blake, aka The Comedian. And we now know that Dreiberg is in federal custody. In other words, all living/primary Watchmen characters are now accounted for, we know Dr. Manhattan makes his return to Earth later this season, and Dreiberg will presumably make appearance at some point as well (if not the season, possibly next).
As you can see, all of this seems to be connected in some way. We're picking the story up in 2019, right at as the internet is being rolled out by the government and the FBI is finally declaring Vedit dead, the latter of which is seemingly spurring the Rorschach extremists into action. Again, this was all somewhat evident, but it's nice to see how it's all likely connected, and to have more context going forward, much of which I'm sure will be reinforced in the coming episodes.

Cannot wait for tonight.
TCTTS
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Ha, WTF? What an ending. I kind of feel like last week's episode and tonight's would have made for a more complete, single night, two-hour event premiere. Regardless, I don't think I'm going to be able to get enough of this show, no matter what they do. Loving it so far.
C@LAg
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Sine poena nulla lex.
C@LAg
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TCTTS
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If you're talking about Jean Smart's character, her name is literally said in the trailers. If you're talking about something else, though, I'm down to edit.
C@LAg
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TCTTS
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I added spoiler tags, even though it's also directly addressed in the officially released "FBI memo" linked to above. HBO and Lindelof aren't being coy about it. We've openly discussed it in the thread already as well.
redline248
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TCTTS said:

All warm up for the return of the blue dong.


Son of a b_tch, did you know that was coming?
TCTTS
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tk for tu juan
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redline248 said:

TCTTS said:

All warm up for the return of the blue dong.


Son of a b_tch, did you know that was coming?

As soon as I saw Nudity in rating, I knew it probably did not mean female with HBOs recent trends in show nudity. Then the blue feet lowered into the view...
tk for tu juan
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Enjoyed this episode more than last week, probably because it felt like a Lost episode. The character development flashbacks and WTF moments were pretty much Lost.

The Will storyline could almost answer the question of what happened to Walt, haha.

They zoomed in on a painting showing Comanche horsemanship, was there a painting last week related to the show title?
PDWT_12
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tk for tu juan said:

They zoomed in on a painting showing Comanche horsemanship, was there a painting last week related to the show title?
The title last week is a reference to the musical "Oklahoma!", it's lyrics from the song "Pore Jud is Daid".
easttexasaggie04
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Yea what was the significance of the horse painting? I felt like I missed something there I was supposed to get.
PDWT_12
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Not sure. Maybe a reference to hiding behind something in order to protect yourself (a horse in the painting, masks for the cops/vigilantes)? Seems pretty weak, so I'm sure there is more to it than that.

What is odd is that the title of the painting and the episode have two words switched.

Comanche Feats of Martial Horsemanship vs Martial Feats of Comanche Horsemanship. That feels intentional but I have no idea what for.
redline248
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All the phillips and crookshanks are clones, right? I was thinking robots until this week.
easttexasaggie04
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Yes, I believe so. But don't listen to me as I have no idea what I'm talking about.
claym711
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Hope this improves. As someone who is brand new to Watchmen, this has been really bad through 2.
Bigfootisreal
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Well, found out why the kids are white! Ellsworth is the dad!!!!
easttexasaggie04
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Put me down in the category that is loving this series so far. I'm 100% in.
mazzag
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I thought he was their grandfather? Parents we're killed, one her partner.
Dro07
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what Maz said
BenFiasco14
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Now since we've been exposed to blue dong surely we can at least get a hot chick in leather a la silk spectre soon right?
CNN is an enemy of the state and should be treated as such.
tk for tu juan
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BenFiasco14 said:

a hot chick in leather a la silk spectre soon right?

Well that actress is 68, so be careful what you wish for
C@LAg
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C@LAg
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Sine poena nulla lex.
BenFiasco14
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C@LAg said:

tk for tu juan said:

BenFiasco14 said:

a hot chick in leather a la silk spectre soon right?

Well that actress is 68, so be careful what you wish for
well, maybe they have super Spanx in their universe.....


She's gotta have an apprentice or something
CNN is an enemy of the state and should be treated as such.
redline248
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Who is Ellsworth?
TCTTS
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Uh...



Dro07
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I can't remember his name on the show but he was the old man waiting on the porch wanting to see his grandkids and said something about Redfordations when she wrote him a check.
C@LAg
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Sine poena nulla lex.
Dro07
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Where is the first pic from?
 
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