*** WATCHMEN (HBO) ***

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TCTTS
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redline248 said:

I thought they killed it. The look after he woke up wasn't perfect, but it was pretty damn good. I loved how he'd go from glowing to not glowing. That was the best episode, so far, for me.

Although, if he knew the cannon was gonna go off, why didn't he destroy it and why did he walk right in front of it? Does he want to die?

The chicken/egg scene was brilliant

This was my other big question/issue. He wiped out everyone but the guy behind the cannon, knowing the cannon was going to go off. He could have easily stopped it and I was just sitting there thinking, "Why does this thing he could easily stop *have* to be something that's inevitable?" It made no sense. Unless it's like a Doctor Strange/Endgame thing where he knows he has to get "caught" in order to ultimately win, but there was really no hint of that whatsoever, and it's just going to feel cheep if they go that route.
TCTTS
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You beat me to it, re: the Doctor Strange angle.
MBAR
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Also, of note is that HBO's primer for next week called it the SEASON finale.
MBAR
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I think if Angela ends up being nothing more than a vehicle for this story then its a fine critique but I honestly won't care much because of how amazing the storytelling has been.
MBAR
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Also it really felt like Cal was trying to give his powers to Angela. First with the egg, then with the waffles he was trying to make at the end. I am betting that at some point next week she gets the powers.
TCTTS
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I think a big part of what's coloring my critique is having read this interview with Lindelof earlier this week, this excerpt in particular...

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/watchmen-season-1-episode-7-an-almost-religious-awe-explained-1258567

Quote:

What were your initial ideas about how to bring Doctor Manhattan into the fold for your series, and how did that lead to the Cal Abar character? Was this a turn you arrived at early on in breaking the season, or did it come late in the process?

I started this whole journey from the perspective of a fan what would I have to see in a television show daring to call itself Watchmen? Doctor Manhattan was near the top of that list. But even higher was that we needed to tell a new story with a new character at the center of it. Once we landed on Angela Abar as that center, the new rule became that any legacy characters we were using (Veidt, Laurie and Hooded Justice) could only be used in service of Angela's story She was the sun, everyone else needed to be orbiting around her. So how could Doctor Manhattan, a man with the power of God, be in service of Angela's story as opposed to the other way around? Based on his past (and all the tropes of Greco-Roman mythology), the answer was intuitive love. We knew this relationship could only work if Manhattan took the form of a human, and so, the idea of Cal was born. And yeah, it came early. Almost from the jump.

... because, again, so far he only seems to be primarily servicing her backstory, not her as traditional, compelling, present-day character who moves the story forward via the choices she makes.

But yeah, overall, I can totally understand being cool with Angela being used simply as a vehicle, but when I see what Lindelof is aiming for, in his own words, I can't help but feel like he's missing his own mark.
TCTTS
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Oh, that's a good point. I think you're right.
amercer
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MBAR said:

Also it really felt like Cal was trying to give his powers to Angela. First with the egg, then with the waffles he was trying to make at the end. I am betting that at some point next week she gets the powers.


There were some hints that their oldest kid has the powers, and this episode did make it sort of clear how they could be transferred (I'm not going to get worked up about science in a fictional universe)

If we assume that Manhattan is done for, there is a long list of people that would be in line to get the powers. Angela, the Senator, looking glass, Will, Trieu, Trieu's daughter/mom

Also to the why didn't he stop it question, I didn't think there was a guy behind the gun at the end. I assumed it was automated. Also, he's not actually omnipotent. With enough tachyons you can hide things from him. So it's possible he doesn't know what happened after he saves Angela.

Why was it important that Angela sees him standing on water?
c-jags
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Tom Ato said:

I think...
pop culture has diffused the word racist to a point that some would think anyone that supports a certain political party is a racist, or any number of other words. This means that anyone that supports anything that someone on twitter has deemed "racist" now has to defend other "racists" since the nuance is all gone. I am sure most people hate white supremacists but since people that may support walls or no affirmative action get lumped in with white supremacists it became a hot button issue.


I checked out after the second episode because of the white supremacy (and Regina's and Damon's comments)

You put it succinctly.

I don't think there are very many people out there or in this thread that support white supremacy. It's evil, vile and should be treated as such. Same for Nazism.

However, pretending like people in the political spectrum do not brand the other side as racists/white suprematist for things like having a different opinion than the Democratic Party on poverty, welfare, immigration, guns, etc. is being willfully ignorant. I have made the statement before that "I don't really want a wall and didn't vote for Trump, but unchecked immigration is not a good thing. I don't want it, but I understand why Trump thinks it's a necessity," and was called a white supremacist to my face for that view.

So when you have a side that is gung ho to call the other side a name to shut them down, people are going to stop listening and respond negatively to the constant demonization of the name you call them (even in if the 2 episodes I watched they are obviously terrible people.) So while i understand we have very terrible people that are racist (and there are plenty of them,) those of us who love all people but subscribe to certain views that are no way racist, are going to tune out the accusations.
Urban Ag
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This board is an echo chamber and their safe space. Hollywood is their religion. Prove me wrong.
johncAG
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Anyways...

Looking Glass has to be in the final episode right? Not seeing his death on screen should be the sign that he still has a role to play
amercer
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He's definitely wearing a 7th cav mask and infiltrating the warehouse where the **** is about to go down
C@LAg
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Sine poena nulla lex.
WES2006AG
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I think the "chicken/egg" thing is the explanation for why Angela. When all of time happens at once him falling in love with her because of her actions, trying to save him the night the 7th Cav shows up, even though she can't is why he fell in love with her.

When it all happens at the same time there is no time. No beginning, no end. They showed some of that with him being confused waking up. I think this aspect has really added something awesome to the show.

Or I am completely misreading that, who knows.
WES2006AG
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c-jags said:

Tom Ato said:

I think...
pop culture has diffused the word racist to a point that some would think anyone that supports a certain political party is a racist, or any number of other words. This means that anyone that supports anything that someone on twitter has deemed "racist" now has to defend other "racists" since the nuance is all gone. I am sure most people hate white supremacists but since people that may support walls or no affirmative action get lumped in with white supremacists it became a hot button issue.


I checked out after the second episode because of the white supremacy (and Regina's and Damon's comments)

You put it succinctly.

I don't think there are very many people out there or in this thread that support white supremacy. It's evil, vile and should be treated as such. Same for Nazism.

However, pretending like people in the political spectrum do not brand the other side as racists/white suprematist for things like having a different opinion than the Democratic Party on poverty, welfare, immigration, guns, etc. is being willfully ignorant. I have made the statement before that "I don't really want a wall and didn't vote for Trump, but unchecked immigration is not a good thing. I don't want it, but I understand why Trump thinks it's a necessity," and was called a white supremacist to my face for that view.

So when you have a side that is gung ho to call the other side a name to shut them down, people are going to stop listening and respond negatively to the constant demonization of the name you call them (even in if the 2 episodes I watched they are obviously terrible people.) So while i understand we have very terrible people that are racist (and there are plenty of them,) those of us who love all people but subscribe to certain views that are no way racist, are going to tune out the accusations.
I guess my last post on the topic got pulled down because it triggered those who don't want to talk about this stuff enough to flag it.

Oh well, one last comment...

It is laughably fragile that you stopped watching this show because of the portrayal of white supremacists. Sorry if that is offensive but it is absolutely true.
C@LAg
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dummble
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Is Judd for real bad then or did Will kill him because the KKK robe confirmed what Angela said.

I guess the Jane monologue and trap door confirmed it. But he did try to reason with Will and Will wouldn't listen.

as far as the DM and Angela love thing, he has a history of of banging normal chicks and loving them. Angela even brings it up with Zeus coming down from mt olympus and turning into something. Kurt Russel did the same in guardians
C@LAg
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mazag08
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Didn't Manhattan say that the device they built would involuntarily transport him somewhere? Or did it kill him? I'm confused.

I still think that this point in history is a major point for the WORLD. The way it is playing out is the Dr Strange way of it needing to play out. We just happen to be seeing it through the eyes of Angela because she likely has a pivotal role in the conclusion.

And are we sure there is going to be some happy ending? Or well reasoned wrap up to the season? I mean.. the original graphic novel was about showing the motivations of each flawed character and how they rationalize their choices.
C@LAg
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Brian Earl Spilner
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Urban Ag said:

This board is an echo chamber and their safe space. Hollywood is their religion. Prove me wrong.
fig96
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dummble said:

Is Judd for real bad then or did Will kill him because the KKK robe confirmed what Angela said.

I guess the Jane monologue and trap door confirmed it. But he did try to reason with Will and Will wouldn't listen.

as far as the DM and Angela love thing, he has a history of of banging normal chicks and loving them. Angela even brings it up with Zeus coming down from mt olympus and turning into something. Kurt Russel did the same in guardians
I feel like Judd's wife's involvement with the senator (and the trap door in their living room which was freakin' awesome) pretty much confirms that he was involved in the 7th Cavalry plot as well. No telling exactly when that happened, but he must have had some involvement.
C@LAg
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mazag08
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C@LAg said:

also, I am calling it.

DocM gave Will a small amount of his powers so that he would be able to protect the kids 10 years later.

That explains Will dipping his hand in the boiling water to get an egg (symbolic).
I would like that a whole lot more than Angela.
amercer
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So all the eggs in the story are actual Easter eggs....
redline248
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I doubt very much there will be a happy ending. Bittersweet, maybe.
Txgunrnnr
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redline248 said:

I doubt very much there will be a happy ending. Bittersweet, maybe.
GOT of style?
“If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses.” -Henry Ford

#FJB
israeliag
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amercer said:

He's definitely wearing a 7th cav mask and infiltrating the warehouse where the **** is about to go down
We're definitely seeing a mirror of the end of the comic book, where instead of Rohrsach getting zapped and DM living on, DM got zapped and our new Rohrsach (mirror guy) continuing on. Maybe he was the one on the gun at the end, and somehow that's why DM let it happen?
Bones08
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Txgunrnnr said:

redline248 said:

I doubt very much there will be a happy ending. Bittersweet, maybe.
GOT of style?
"And who has a better story than Lubeman?"
dummble
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speculation, but if the foil protects wearers from physic waves, would it disguise his thoughts. Maybe Dr M knew what would happen but couldn't pinpoint looking glass to do anything about it. Mask over a mask
TCTTS
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Not to spoil anything, but the preview for the finale included shots of Doctor Manhattan. He's not dead.
Andyzipp
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TCTTS said:

Not to spoil anything, but the preview for the finale included shots of Doctor Manhattan. He's not dead.


I don't experience time the way you do...
PooDoo
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Andyzipp said:

TCTTS said:

Not to spoil anything, but the preview for the finale included shots of Doctor Manhattan. He's not dead.


I don't experience time the way you do...

You'd think he would remember telling everyone that 100 times.

Also, Doc said the canon was going to transport him to some place.... Iirc.
Stive
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TCTTS said:

Not to spoil anything, but the preview for the finale included shots of Doctor Manhattan. He's not dead.
Saw that..... Could also be a flashback though right?
TCTTS
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No, because he's the Cal version of Doctor Manhattan, which didn't exist until Angela cracked open his head and woke him up again. It looks like he's in some kind of device, as is the senator, and that they're attempting to transfer his powers or something. And like PooDoo said, Manhattan specifically told Angela that they were transporting him, not killing him...

 
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