*** WATCHMEN (HBO) ***

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redline248
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12:55a, 11/18/19
AG
This show is bonkers and absolutely brilliant. Wade was awesome. I hate hate hate that I can't binge the whole damn thing.

I keep wanting to type out a bunch of thoughts but I can't make sense out of them yet (just finished watching)
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Sex Panther
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In reply to TCTTS • 1:05a, 11/18/19
AG
TCTTS said:
Wait, I read that wrong. I *do* have the director's cut Blu-ray. Is that what you're taking about. Is it on there?

The Ultimate Cut is the directors cut, with the Black Freighter animation inserted into the flow of the actual film. I think I watched that version once, and def have no desire to ever watch it that way again. It's like 3.5 hours long. But it also came with the motion comic.

I remember the Director's Cut being superior to the theatrical (at least for someone who really liked the comic like me). And Snyder even said it's the best one to watch. So maybe the Snyder-cut of Justice League actually should be released? That's a joke... mostly. I mean I'd watch it.
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MBAR
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In reply to TCTTS • 1:07a, 11/18/19
AG
TCTTS said:
amercer said:
So the Veidt thing got cleared up, sorta.

Manhattan definitely created life on Europa and sent him there. Not sure who he's hoping to contact with his message though.


What makes you so sure it's Doctor Manhattan who sent him there, though? Veidt spelled out "SAVE ME D" and we couldn't see the rest. What if he spelled out "SAVE ME DOCTOR MANHATTAN" and Lady Trieu is the one who imprisoned him there?

Granted, even with all her wealth, I doubt Lady Trieu has the resources/tech to build that kind of prison on Europa, but who else's name starts with "D" who could help him all the way out there, and why would he be asking Doctor Manhattan for help if Doctor Manhattan is the one who put him there in the first place?


The talk he had with the warden about their God abandoning them convinced me it was Manhattan who put him there.
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C@LAg
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In reply to MBAR • 1:08a, 11/18/19
Sine poena nulla lex.
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MBAR
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In reply to C@LAg • 1:11a, 11/18/19
AG
C@LAg said:
MBAR said:




The talk he had with the warden about their God abandoning them convinced me it was Manhattan who put him there.
Trieu can do cloning and they made a point of saying she recreated a piece of Vietnam in Oklahoma, so she can create biomes as well.


It had nothing to do with the tech but with the word God. Nothing in this show is an accident and that conversation was pointing directly at Manhattan, imo. YMMV
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redline248
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1:15a, 11/18/19
AG
Did either the warden or Veidt use the word he in that scene? Veidt seems to know who put him there
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Sex Panther
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In reply to MBAR • 1:15a, 11/18/19
AG
MBAR said:
TCTTS said:
amercer said:
So the Veidt thing got cleared up, sorta.

Manhattan definitely created life on Europa and sent him there. Not sure who he's hoping to contact with his message though.


What makes you so sure it's Doctor Manhattan who sent him there, though? Veidt spelled out "SAVE ME D" and we couldn't see the rest. What if he spelled out "SAVE ME DOCTOR MANHATTAN" and Lady Trieu is the one who imprisoned him there?

Granted, even with all her wealth, I doubt Lady Trieu has the resources/tech to build that kind of prison on Europa, but who else's name starts with "D" who could help him all the way out there, and why would he be asking Doctor Manhattan for help if Doctor Manhattan is the one who put him there in the first place?


The talk he had with the warden about their God abandoning them convinced me it was Manhattan who put him there.


See I'm so torn on that. Part of me thinks that, but another part of me thinks it's a complete and deliberate fake out.

Dr. Manhattan makes the most sense for obvious reasons, but they have established in this world that Trieu probably has the means to put him on Europa. She's a trillionaire and she's got some insane tech... But Dr. Manhattan just doesn't seem like the type to imprison someone, no matter what they've done. Plus he was basically on board with Veidt's plan after he did it... but I could easily be wrong.


And for some reason I think that the servants with Veidt are clones of Jon Osterman/Manhattan.
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Sex Panther
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In reply to MBAR • 1:17a, 11/18/19
AG
MBAR said:
C@LAg said:
MBAR said:




The talk he had with the warden about their God abandoning them convinced me it was Manhattan who put him there.
Trieu can do cloning and they made a point of saying she recreated a piece of Vietnam in Oklahoma, so she can create biomes as well.


It had nothing to do with the tech but with the word God. Nothing in this show is an accident and that conversation was pointing directly at Manhattan, imo. YMMV


I think that word is the fakeout. It clearly wants you to think Manhattan... it's almost too obvious. But to a clone on a biome in space, God is whatever you understand them as. And who created you.
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C@LAg
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1:24a, 11/18/19
Sine poena nulla lex.
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TCTTS
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In reply to C@LAg • 1:40a, 11/18/19
AG
I'm assuming that was Veidt as well - who crashed on the land she purchased - but why would he automatically belong to her just because she now owns the land he crashed on? When Lady Trieu and the couple are standing on the porch watching whatever it is crash to the ground, one of them asks, "What is that?" and Lady Trieu responds, "Mine." She had to buy the land to own whatever she knew was about to crash on it. And it were a man crashing on that land, she wouldn't then own the man. Which makes me think it has to be an object instead.
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C@LAg
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In reply to TCTTS • 1:42a, 11/18/19
Sine poena nulla lex.
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C@LAg
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1:43a, 11/18/19
Sine poena nulla lex.
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TCTTS
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In reply to C@LAg • 1:44a, 11/18/19
AG
I like the statue idea a lot, but why would she have to literally own the land he crashed on in order to capture him? Why not just trespass without the couple knowing and "steal" him right after he crashes?
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C@LAg
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In reply to TCTTS • 1:46a, 11/18/19
Sine poena nulla lex.
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TCTTS
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In reply to C@LAg • 1:47a, 11/18/19
AG
Yeah, I guess so. I think you're right, I'm just playing devil's advocate.
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C@LAg
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1:49a, 11/18/19
Sine poena nulla lex.
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amercer
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7:12a, 11/18/19
AG
I do like the idea of him being the gold statue, although it's a little too Carbonite. Although if he had to be frozen to get through space, it would make more sense why she needed the land
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Definitely Not A Cop
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8:43a, 11/18/19
AG
So can we officially say that there is more than meets the eye with the 7th Cavalry guys? They aren't just stereotypical racists.
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redline248
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In reply to Definitely Not A Cop • 9:24a, 11/18/19
AG
Champ Bailey said:
So can we officially say that there is more than meets the eye with the 7th Cavalry guys? They aren't just stereotypical racists.


Well, the senator said they are still racist, but yes. Going along with whatever he's up to just makes them racist followers.
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amercer
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In reply to Definitely Not A Cop • 9:44a, 11/18/19
AG
Champ Bailey said:
So can we officially say that there is more than meets the eye with the 7th Cavalry guys? They aren't just stereotypical racists.


Actually after lasts night's episode there seems to be less to them than I had thought. The Senator certainly made them out to be a bunch of dumb racists that were easily manipulated by him and the police chief.

Clearly there is some group of them that are scientists/engineers that are working with him on his plan, but my initial thoughts that they were somewhat sympathetic conspiracy nuts (who happened to be right) seems to be out the window.

Still can't piece together how Will fits in. If Trieu is working with the 7th, then it's hard to see why Will would kill the police chief.
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amercer
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9:50a, 11/18/19
AG
Although I guess it's possible to interpret the Senator's threat to mirror guy as being that no one would suspect anything odd about the 7th killing a black family because they are supposed to be racist. In which case the white supremacy thing is a cover for their real ambitions.

I'm guessing it's not that convoluted though, and most of the 7th members are white supremacy guys, who's organization has been secretly co-opted for whatever the big plan is.

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israeliag
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11:06a, 11/18/19
AG
Does Veidt's little biodome prison seem to have closer to 1G gravity? When on the moon surface the low gravity seemed to really standout, so I think I remember the gravity right. Creating an artificial gravity, plus the ephemeral boundary of that prison doesn't seem like what Trieu is capable of. But, that satellite is clearly human. So... maybe some combination of Dr. Manhattan and the government or Trieu?

Or, Veidt's estate is on Earth, but surrounded by a portal that zaps him to the Jovian moon?
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redline248
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11:43a, 11/18/19
AG
In the opener, was the 7K shooting of the cop a random act of racism that the senator used to jump start his plan? Or is the a separate faction that is working outside his influence? I feel like there are multiple parties involved here

Senator and 7K (and possible rogue 7K)
Trieu and Will
Blake

How/if Veidt ties into either of the first 2?
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amercer
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In reply to israeliag • 12:46p, 11/18/19
AG
israeliag said:


Or, Veidt's estate is on Earth, but surrounded by a portal that zaps him to the Jovian moon?


That's an interesting idea, and it removes the space travel part, which really should be beyond the technical capacity of anyone in this universe (other than Manhattan)
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amercer
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In reply to redline248 • 12:50p, 11/18/19
AG
redline248 said:
In the opener, was the 7K shooting of the cop a random act of racism that the senator used to jump start his plan? Or is the a separate faction that is working outside his influence? I feel like there are multiple parties involved here

Senator and 7K (and possible rogue 7K)
Trieu and Will
Blake

How/if Veidt ties into either of the first 2?


I felt like the opening scene was really about an antigovernment group, but we did find out later there was a racist side to the 7th cav.

The senator did say that him and the police chief were running different parts of the 7th, so presumably there are a couple factions working together. Who's really pulling the strings is the big question.
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C@LAg
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12:56p, 11/18/19
Sine poena nulla lex.
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Definitely Not A Cop
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In reply to amercer • 1:06p, 11/18/19
AG
amercer said:
israeliag said:


Or, Veidt's estate is on Earth, but surrounded by a portal that zaps him to the Jovian moon?


That's an interesting idea, and it removes the space travel part, which really should be beyond the technical capacity of anyone in this universe (other than Manhattan)


Is it though? The newest episode shows the 7th Kav throwing a basketball through a wormhole generator, and from the convo between the senator and Looking Glass, this technology has been available since at least the squid dropping.

Edit: just realized you mentioned the same technology. To update my question: what if they use portal technology for space travel?
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WES2006AG
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In reply to C@LAg • 1:38p, 11/18/19
AG
C@LAg said:
Maybe Robert Redford made a deal with Doctor Manhattan to exile Ozymandias as a sort of punishment once he became aware of the plan from seven years prior.
This makes a lot of sense and seems to fit the timeline as I understand it
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amercer
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In reply to WES2006AG • 1:40p, 11/18/19
AG
Does someone have a timeline? That video was from 92, and I thought Viedt doesn't go missing until 2012 or so.
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TCTTS
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In reply to amercer • 1:41p, 11/18/19
AG
That was my understanding.
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redline248
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1:44p, 11/18/19
AG
So, I guess the public never figured out that Veidt was a murdering psychopath (seems obvious), with the exception of the 7K? They don't use the Rorschach masks by coincidence, right?

Wonder what ol' Ozy boy was up to until he disappeared
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amercer
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In reply to Definitely Not A Cop • 1:49p, 11/18/19
AG
Champ Bailey said:
amercer said:
israeliag said:


Or, Veidt's estate is on Earth, but surrounded by a portal that zaps him to the Jovian moon?


That's an interesting idea, and it removes the space travel part, which really should be beyond the technical capacity of anyone in this universe (other than Manhattan)


Is it though? The newest episode shows the 7th Kav throwing a basketball through a wormhole generator, and from the convo between the senator and Looking Glass, this technology has been available since at least the squid dropping.

Edit: just realized you mentioned the same technology. To update my question: what if they use portal technology for space travel?


I guess you could, but teleporting a basketball 20 feet away and moving a base to a moon around Saturn are different things.

The fact there was a satellite in orbit is interesting, and maybe suggestive that they've got a much more advanced space program than we do. Still getting to other planets (without Manhattan or a teleport) takes a long time with conventional tech.
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WES2006AG
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In reply to amercer • 2:08p, 11/18/19
AG
amercer said:
Does someone have a timeline? That video was from 92, and I thought Viedt doesn't go missing until 2012 or so.
Never mind. I clearly don't understand the timeline. I was thinking that Redford took the WH around the time that Veight went missing but that probably isn't correct.
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MBAR
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In reply to amercer • 2:40p, 11/18/19
AG
amercer said:
Does someone have a timeline? That video was from 92, and I thought Viedt doesn't go missing until 2012 or so.
Video was not from 92. Was from 85 or so. Viedt was assuming the plan he set in motion would come to fruition completely and apparently he was right.
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amercer
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In reply to MBAR • 2:45p, 11/18/19
AG
Right. Video was made in 85, but not seen by anyone until 92. And then by the time the Senator gets elected (2010???) it's required viewing for new members of the appropriations committee.
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