*** WONDER WOMAN ***

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FL_Ag1998
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fig96 said:

CrazyDayDuck said:

Zombie Jon Snow said:


I like MvS better now in retrospect with WW background info.

Batman versus Superman was all about laying the foundation for Wonder Woman and the Justice League. The conflict between Batman and Superman, though real, was not the main focus of the movie. Hence why criticism of it was overblown imo.

As for Hans Zimmer, is there a better composer for movie soundtracks?
It was criticized because it was a poorly paced, poorly motivated, borderline incoherent movie.

And yes, John Williams


This x 1000, on both points above made by fig.
rhutton125
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Quote:

It's already up to 430 mil internationally and basically assured of being in the top 3 grossing movies for '17. The others are Beauty and the Beast (1.2 bil) and Guardians of the Galaxy 2 (800 mil).


I don't mean to nitpick, but Furious 8 has earned almost as much as B&B, and Justice League, Spider-Man and Thor: Ragnarok are also releasing this year. So that's 3 that are above WW's earnings already plus several more contenders.

Not that it matters, just fact checking
FL_Ag1998
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rhutton125 said:

Quote:

It's already up to 430 mil internationally and basically assured of being in the top 3 grossing movies for '17. The others are Beauty and the Beast (1.2 bil) and Guardians of the Galaxy 2 (800 mil).


I don't mean to nitpick, but Furious 8 has earned almost as much as B&B, and Justice League, Spider-Man and Thor: Ragnarok are also releasing this year. So that's 3 that are above WW's earnings already plus several more contenders.

Not that it matters, just fact checking


Shhhhhhhh, don't argue with CrazyDayDuck about Wonder Woman. Trust me, you don't want to go down that road.
CrazyDayDuck
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fig96 said:

CrazyDayDuck said:

Zombie Jon Snow said:


I like MvS better now in retrospect with WW background info.

Batman versus Superman was all about laying the foundation for Wonder Woman and the Justice League. The conflict between Batman and Superman, though real, was not the main focus of the movie. Hence why criticism of it was overblown imo.

As for Hans Zimmer, is there a better composer for movie soundtracks?
It was criticized because it was a poorly paced, poorly motivated, borderline incoherent movie.

And yes, John Williams

John Williams and Hans Zimmer are both definitely greatness.

Not sure you can place one above the other though.

As for the pacing of BvS, it was fine. The motivation was there, although I agree that it could have been done better (Superman is a goody-goody while Batman is the "Dark" Knight who enjoys beating the crap out of the bad guys). As for being incoherent, that was due to the dream sequence that the comic com people seemed to want.

At least these points are better than the moronic one about a 93 on Rotten Tomatoes being meaningless.
rhutton125
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Nobody says it's meaningless, just doesn't automatically translate to an A- film. But I'll not veer us down that road again.
CrazyDayDuck
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rhutton125 said:

Quote:

It's already up to 430 mil internationally and basically assured of being in the top 3 grossing movies for '17. The others are Beauty and the Beast (1.2 bil) and Guardians of the Galaxy 2 (800 mil).


I don't mean to nitpick, but Furious 8 has earned almost as much as B&B, and Justice League, Spider-Man and Thor: Ragnarok are also releasing this year. So that's 3 that are above WW's earnings already plus several more contenders.

Not that it matters, just fact checking

You're right...on the international numbers.

Domestically though Wonder Woman is poised to beat Logan & Furious 8, and is expected to beat Spidey.

As for Thor and the Justice League (I'm looking forward to both), they come out in the later part of Fall so they probably won't catch WW by the end of Dec.

Bottom line is that WW is far exceeding expectations. A 93 on RT, probably the 3rd best grossing picture domestically for '17, and it could get up to 700 mil internationally.

WW has definitely put herself in the same league as Iron Man, Captain America and Thor cinematically, and has created a great set up for the Justice League this Fall.
CrazyDayDuck
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rhutton125 said:

Nobody says it's meaningless, just doesn't automatically translate to an A- film. But I'll not veer us down that road again.

Feel free to list all the movies that received a 93 on RT that were not A movies in your opinion.
Brian Earl Spilner
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Serious question. Why does this matter so much to you?
CrazyDayDuck
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Brian Earl Spilner said:

Serious question. Why does this matter so much to you?

I don't like seeing a good movie getting dissed.
agdoc2001
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CrazyDayDuck said:

Brian Earl Spilner said:

Serious question. Why does this matter so much to you?

I don't like seeing a good movie getting dissed.


Good news! This wasn't one so you can sleep soundly.
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Brian Earl Spilner
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And yet nobody has actually dissed it. All the criticisms are fair. Just because it's not a perfect movie doesn't mean it's bad.

I'll tell you one thing, though, the utter hatred for BvS is definitely one that confuses and bugs me. THAT is a movie that gets dissed. Not WW.
Philip J Fry
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CrazyDayDuck said:

Brian Earl Spilner said:

Serious question. Why does this matter so much to you?

I don't like seeing a good movie getting dissed.


Keep up the good fight. Mediocre movies are depending on you.
rhutton125
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CrazyDayDuck said:

rhutton125 said:

Nobody says it's meaningless, just doesn't automatically translate to an A- film. But I'll not veer us down that road again.

Feel free to list all the movies that received a 93 on RT that were not A movies in your opinion.


In my opinion? Wonder Woman. But my review of "it's alright" would count as fresh.

Most of the people I know that saw it either absolutely loved it or thought it was decent, though perhaps expected more given all the hype and reviews. But all would count as fresh. 100% RT score.

But personally I'd give it a 6 or 7 out of 10. A lot of positives, but far too many negatives to consider it close to a A. But that's still fresh.

And I'm not even remotely suggesting that every one of those critics contributing to the 93% are saying "it's just alright." Most that I read loved it. But it's not a direct translation, that's all.

New topic, please. Back to Ares' silly-ass mustache.
Bruce Almighty
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CrazyDayDuck said:

Brian Earl Spilner said:

Serious question. Why does this matter so much to you?

I don't like seeing a good movie getting dissed.


I asked you this question earlier in the thread and you never answered it. Are there not any critically acclaimed movies that you just didn't care for?
rhutton125
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Side note... as of 2017, isn't the naive and new to the world Diana Prince essentially dead? Presumably a lot of that wide-eyed wonderment is gone, especially since we didn't seem to get any of it in BvS. She can still be a symbol of hope and encouragement, but isn't this movie, in a way, the only time we'll get this kind of Wonder Woman?

Presumably she's a little more perky in the now-with-jokes Justice League, but a lot of what made her the star in this film may be gone in the next. Theoretically. And that's a shame.
fig96
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CrazyDayDuck said:

fig96 said:

It was criticized because it was a poorly paced, poorly motivated, borderline incoherent movie.

And yes, John Williams

John Williams and Hans Zimmer are both definitely greatness.

Not sure you can place one above the other though.

As for the pacing of BvS, it was fine. The motivation was there, although I agree that it could have been done better (Superman is a goody-goody while Batman is the "Dark" Knight who enjoys beating the crap out of the bad guys). As for being incoherent, that was due to the dream sequence that the comic com people seemed to want.

At least these points are better than the moronic one about a 93 on Rotten Tomatoes being meaningless.

First off, I won't rehash the full BvS argument (there's a whole thread of that), but it was poorly paced, the characters had no to really odd motivations that didn't always make sense, technology was sporadically applied, various events just didn't make sense and/or weren't explained, the plot jumps around, and the defining moment that the film pivots on is about two characters' moms' names. Like any other film you're welcome to love it, but it wasn't a well put together film. As a friend of mine aptly put it, it felt like a movie made by committee (which is probably pretty accurate).

As per RT, good lord dude get over it already. No one has said it's meaningless and almost everyone on here has been really positive about the film and said they really enjoyed it. That doesn't mean it was a perfect movie, however, and like any other film it's open to criticism. There's other highly regarded films I didn't like and other not critically acclaimed ones that I loved, just like with all movies everyone is entitled to their opinion and no film is indefensible.
AliasMan02
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CrazyDayDuck said:

rhutton125 said:

Nobody says it's meaningless, just doesn't automatically translate to an A- film. But I'll not veer us down that road again.

Feel free to list all the movies that received a 93 on RT that were not A movies in your opinion.


You realize that if you compiled the reviews given here on this thread using the RT method, it would likely score a 90+, right?
M.C. Swag
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SPOILERS

EDIT: For some reason I can't get the spoiler tags to work. So don't read any further if you haven't seen the movie.



The Good
  • Themyscira and the Amazons looked visually stunning
  • The action scenes were pretty slick
  • Gal Gadot looked the part
  • The WW theme music is still pretty dope

The Bad
  • The opening 20 or so minutes were just awkward and clunky.
  • The dialogue in general was just bad. I think there were 2 scenes were Chris Pine just stuttered and exasperated for 2 minutes. The rest was hokey and cliched. 'power of love?' Really? (Although, I actually did like the 2 villains snickering to each other scene after the poison gas scene. That felt like an intentional 'campy' comic moment that I did enjoy.)
  • The gala scene with Chris Pine speaking English with a German accent was straight up cringey.
  • They weren't consistent with WW powers - and i'm not talking about her 'discovering' her inner-demi god. Like, can she fly? shoot lighting? What made her stronger than Ares? So what happened to that sword? Didn't she use that against 'Doomsday' in BvS?
  • It made no sense why Chris Pine enlisted the help of A-Team lite.
  • When 2 Gods are duking it out with wanton destruction, why are the German soldiers continuing to go about their business? You'd think it was a typical tuesday occurrence for them.
  • The romance felt extremely forced. But that's hollywood

Overall, I thought it was purely 'meh.' It was better than BvS, but only because the storyline at least made some sense (and that is honestly a really low bar). I don't personally understand the lovefest. This may be an unpopular opinion, but I kinda feel like if nothing else had changed about the movie but instead the credits listed "Director - Zac Snyder", it would be getting dumped on. Lastly, I know it's a 'prequel' origin tale, but the fact that it had 0 impact on the JL storyline going forward kinda cheapened the experience. Like, we all knew Chris Pine dies (of old age or heroic sacrifice) so I wasn't vested in his character at all. However, Gal Gadot did nothing to make me less excited for her future roles as WW. Think she makes a great WW.

5.5/10 - Flawed but still OK.
Brian Earl Spilner
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Paging Crazy...
Weimerica
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AgMarauder04 said:

Did anyone else feel their head being bashed in by the hammer of feminism leading up to the no man's land scene?

Pine: "Diana, no MAN can cross it!!"
Diana: "Something something something feminism"
Over the top she goes.

I loved the scene, and I get that WW is the ultimate symbol of feminism, but it was just so on the nose. I would have appreciated that scene so much more of he would have said something like "it's suicide for anyone to go" or something more universal, as opposed to drawing attention to no MAN'S land.
Not really. I don't particularly consider Wonder Woman to be all that feminist in nature primarily because she's never been about "female empowerment" like other female comic book characters. That is, she's always been the female foil of Superman and is looked at as the ideal woman in the same way that Superman is the ideal man. The scope of the Wonder Woman character is much larger than just "girl power" garbage as she's a person who truly cares about all of humanity.

Yes she is clearly a strong woman, but she doesn't do what she does because she needs to prove herself to men at all. She does what she does for the same reason Superman does what he does, which is that if she doesn't do it then who will? She acts simply because she can and it has always been her goal to save as many as she can.

Wonder Woman, like Superman, is a true humanitarian. Trying to give these two characters any sort of political descriptor would be a fools errand.
M.C. Swag
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Quote:

I think part of what really helps this is besides the look and demeanor, I don't know Gal Gadot from anything else.
If you havent' already, (and everyone in general) you should watch Fast 5* (7th film). It's one of Gal's first credited movie roles and includes a scene where her biggest contribution to the heist team is seducing the bad guy in a 2 piece bikini to obtain his handprint...via said bad guy grabbing her ass. God I love that franchise.

Maybe Gal is trying to redeem her part in setting feminism back during the above scene lol. (Note: This sentence was a joke )

*EDIT: Mixed up the wrong Fast and Furious movie.
rhutton125
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Fast 5
M.C. Swag
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rhutton125 said:

Fast 5
oh was it fast 5? lol I get em mixed up.
Zombie Jon Snow
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Found it......nice!!!


AgMarauder04
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I think that's what got me. They are more humanitarian (good descriptor) than anything, but in our current era of society where the importance of a strong female hero is an agenda being pushed, I feel this MOVIE pushed it.
Bruce Almighty
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AgMarauder04 said:

I think that's what got me. They are more humanitarian (good descriptor) than anything, but in our current era of society where the importance of a strong female hero is an agenda being pushed, I feel this MOVIE pushed it.


So what could they have done differently then to make it feel like it wasn't be pushed in your mind?
BassCowboy33
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AgMarauder04 said:

I think that's what got me. They are more humanitarian (good descriptor) than anything, but in our current era of society where the importance of a strong female hero is an agenda being pushed, I feel this MOVIE pushed it.


Man, I disagree. I was very worried this would be a "woman power!!" film, but I didn't get that feeling at all. I loved how Trevor was shown as a competent and not some kind of lackey. Diana is all powerful, but she still is (1) hetero (2) needs guidance from those less innocent and (3) attracted to Trevor all work in its favor. She's still a woman and not a bloodsucking 3rd wave feminist. That and Jenkins' comments about this "being a movie about a superhero who is female and not a female superhero" and "There won't be a stand and shout 'feminism' moment" really made this movie more enjoyable.
Weimerica
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AgMarauder04 said:

I think that's what got me. They are more humanitarian (good descriptor) than anything, but in our current era of society where the importance of a strong female hero is an agenda being pushed, I feel this MOVIE pushed it.
Nah, I didn't get that from that scene. To me it was quentessential Wonder Woman who was a fish out of water. You have to understand that Wonder Woman literally just emerged from a female dominate culture where no men existed into a world consumed by war that was dominated by men. As a result, she has some pre-conceived notions about Man's World but as the movie showed, she is open to changing her views based upon the presented evidence.

Don't read more into that scene than what is there and don't try to put more into that scene than what is there either based upon the current political environment.

The DC Trinity are really and truly above politics.

From those that know me from the politics board, my political beliefs are way far right but I simply didn't see this movie as political at all since everything had a pretty clear in-universe explanation.
AgMarauder04
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"It's suicide to go out there. It's impossible to cross. No one can cross"

Pine's character says "No MAN can cross it. There's an emphasis on the word, from my recollection,"
AgMarauder04
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I honestly agree for 95% of the movie. It was just that ONE scene that struck me.
Bruce Almighty
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AgMarauder04 said:

"It's suicide to go out there. It's impossible to cross. No one can cross"

Pine's character says "No MAN can cross it. There's an emphasis on the word, from my recollection,"


You're looking to much into it. Man as in humanity. No man can cross it, but a God can. It's not like any woman could do it either.
BigTimeAlum
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Every single incarnation of WW has been dismissive about the capabilities of men. She grew up in an Amazonian culture that had distain for men in general. She has always made those types of "I am no man..." empowerment comments in the comics, cartoons, TV show, etc. I would have been surprised if there wasn't one. It's central to her character and was in no way out of place.

AgMarauder04
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Bruce Almighty said:

AgMarauder04 said:

"It's suicide to go out there. It's impossible to cross. No one can cross"

Pine's character says "No MAN can cross it. There's an emphasis on the word, from my recollection,"


You're looking to much into it. Man as in humanity. No man can cross it, but a God can. It's not like any woman could do it either.
And I very well may be. Like I said, I thought it was a very good movie and really enjoyed it, but that one part just struck me.
Brian Earl Spilner
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I enjoy seeing F&F graduates having success outside of that franchise.

And by the way, her introduction was in 4. She was great in that one.
fig96
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Brian Earl Spilner said:

I enjoy seeing F&F graduates having success outside of that franchise.

And by the way, her introduction was in 4. She was great in that one.
Luda has carved out a nice music career for himself
 
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