AgMarauder04 said:
As a regular politics baord poster, you recognize the irony of calling this place an echo chamber, yes?
*** WONDER WOMAN ***
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Okay, I'm reaching back to quote this post, but I think I can boil it down and try to explain in different terms.Zombie Jon Snow said:
LMAO.
Drawing the line at "gods" in a "superhero" movie...... makes me lol.
Ummmmmmm....... yeah I just.....yeah.
I mean. Wow.
fine with all the supernatural stuff:
man/spider or cross with any other species - fine
teleportation or shape shifting - been there done that
he man that turns green - fine
any type of disease or treatment that goes wrong and makes someone super powered - fine
crazy unexplainable speed - of course
controlling weather - why not
invisibility or x-ray vision - yep
instant healing ability - given
mind control or telepathy or time travel or telekinesis - ho hum
flying, scaling structures, defying gravity in 1000 ways - normal
but a god - nope no way thats UNBELIEVABLE.
ZJS, what people are trying to indicate is the difference between grounding a character in something... anything... and portraying a character that has limitless arbitrary power.
If DC or Marvel introduced a character whose superpower was just wishing for literally anything to happen without consequence, would you defend that on these same grounds? I would hope not.
It goes back to what I said in my review. Can WW fly or not? Can she do all of the things that Ares could do, like hurl lightning bolts and teleport? If not, why not? It opens up huge narrative holes. WB/DC is going to have to SUBSTANTIALLY walk back her powers going forward as it is.
Well put.
I enjoyed WW, but like others have stated just found it "okay". A few minor items bugged me while watching it.
The mythology part was weird. Loved Captain Trevor's reaction to Diana's explanation of the Amazons....but even in a comic book world it just seemed strange to bring life to Mythological beings.
The Fokker Eindecker monoplane was revolutionary in 1915 but was obsolete and out of production by the end of 1916. Not sure they would still be around well into 1918.
Captain Trevor steals the Fokker in Ottoman Empire territory, presumably around Turkey/Greece on the Mediterranean coast and finds himself on the Amazonian Island. He and Diana take a sailboat and make their way to London....overnight??
The gala at the castle was odd and out of place for something that was happen at the eve of the end of a war. Also, is it too much to ask for Germans to speak German?
Loved the performances by Gal Gardot and Chris Pine.
The mythology part was weird. Loved Captain Trevor's reaction to Diana's explanation of the Amazons....but even in a comic book world it just seemed strange to bring life to Mythological beings.
The Fokker Eindecker monoplane was revolutionary in 1915 but was obsolete and out of production by the end of 1916. Not sure they would still be around well into 1918.
Captain Trevor steals the Fokker in Ottoman Empire territory, presumably around Turkey/Greece on the Mediterranean coast and finds himself on the Amazonian Island. He and Diana take a sailboat and make their way to London....overnight??
The gala at the castle was odd and out of place for something that was happen at the eve of the end of a war. Also, is it too much to ask for Germans to speak German?
Loved the performances by Gal Gardot and Chris Pine.
The gala, in particular, was really weird. It made hardly any sense to begin with, but then didn't really amount to anything, felt far too short, and then ended on a weird beat. Not to mention, the lack of proper security for what ended up being a top secret weapons test was strange, too. That whole section of the movie just felt off. That's when it truly started to lose me.
TCTTS said:
I never said gods were unbelievable. It's that they allow an easy cheat, narratively, and muddy the waters thematically/morally.
First of all, you're confusing your definition of "supernatural." In terms of genre, "supernatural" refers to ghosts, the afterlife, curses, spells, etc. Everything you listed is instead science fiction. Which is a key difference. Those things are at least grounded - however laughable - in some kind of science.
But with literal Greek gods, we're now getting into Harry Potter territory, where everything can now just be "magical" mumbo jumbo with the wave of a hand. And Marvel implicitly understands the difference. It's the exact reason why Thor explains Asgard as what we perceive to be magic is really just highly advanced technology.
Further... there's a massive difference between, say, Loki taking control of Hawkeye's mind to make him do bad things... and a literal Greek god being the literal reason for *all* evil in the world. If you can't understand that distinction morally/thematically/etc., I don't know what else to tell you.
Here is the thing Darkseid >>>> All of the Greek Gods put together. Darkseid is the physical embodiment of tyranny in the DCU. He is far more powerful than any of the Greek Gods.
In the DCU, there is a Supreme being called the Presence, who is essentially the Judeo/Christian God. Lucifer also does exist as do many angels and such. It is better to think of the Greek Gods, not as gods but as ridiculously powerful beings. Nothing any of them do is outside of his plan for the universe.
All I know is what can be inferred from the existing movies. Just because it's in the comics doesn't mean it'll be the same cinematically. But if they want to try and make sense of it all by explaining everything you just mentioned, more power to them, I guess.
I saw it today after not initially planning to. Not great, not bad, enjoyable. The girl playing her is absolutely stunningly gorgeous I think she fit the role very well I'm not sure why it matters that she's Israeli.
They got a few of their Hollywood digs in it on racism, insults for men not horrible but they were predictably there. Again it was OK. I think a joke about his small watch/you know what comparison was largely missed by the audience, though.
The whole women are bad ass, they can fight don't anybody to help them, women's thing didn't really impress me all that much,but I thought the special effects were cool and the scenes were interesting. Fantasy films are always fun.
They got a few of their Hollywood digs in it on racism, insults for men not horrible but they were predictably there. Again it was OK. I think a joke about his small watch/you know what comparison was largely missed by the audience, though.
The whole women are bad ass, they can fight don't anybody to help them, women's thing didn't really impress me all that much,but I thought the special effects were cool and the scenes were interesting. Fantasy films are always fun.
For one, the DCEU is never gonna touch "the presence." No way.
Secondly, according to the DCEU, the Greek gods were actual gods. Zeus created mankind. We saw that Ares can literally do almost anything in the material world: mind control/manipulation, insane telekinesis, transformation, energy projection, flight (I think he flew...), etc.
Yes, Darkseid is even more powerful, but then what? What about WW's next solo film? What about the future of the DCEU? (And, it's worth noting that the guys in charge like Geoff Johns handled the introduction of Darkseid pretty poorly last time he had the chance with the relaunch of Justice League and the New 52.)
Maybe Marvel faces the same issue with Thanos, but I don't really think so. He's not a being of infinite power and needs the stones to achieve his goals. And even if he is the ultimate that can never be topped, they've spent 15 or whatever films getting there, not introduced and defeated within the first handful.
Pace and escalation are important, and DC's biggest problems.
Man of Steel - Introduced a planet-killing villain and alien invasion. Introduced and killed Zod.
BvS - Introduced Batman and Wonder Woman in what was essentially a Superman film. Introduced and killed Doomsday. Introduced and defeated/imprisoned Luthor. Death of Superman, the most iconic and pivotal moment in all of DC lore, in only the SECOND DCEU film.
Suicide Squad - Introduced magic, but not really a scale issue. Introduced Joker in a non-Batman film which was weird. Overall this movie doesn't have an escalation or pace problem except for the fact that zero of the characters had ever been on screen before.
Wonder Woman - Gods exist. Established WW as a god. She kills the only other remaining god.
That's all incredibly haphazard, in my estimation.
Secondly, according to the DCEU, the Greek gods were actual gods. Zeus created mankind. We saw that Ares can literally do almost anything in the material world: mind control/manipulation, insane telekinesis, transformation, energy projection, flight (I think he flew...), etc.
Yes, Darkseid is even more powerful, but then what? What about WW's next solo film? What about the future of the DCEU? (And, it's worth noting that the guys in charge like Geoff Johns handled the introduction of Darkseid pretty poorly last time he had the chance with the relaunch of Justice League and the New 52.)
Maybe Marvel faces the same issue with Thanos, but I don't really think so. He's not a being of infinite power and needs the stones to achieve his goals. And even if he is the ultimate that can never be topped, they've spent 15 or whatever films getting there, not introduced and defeated within the first handful.
Pace and escalation are important, and DC's biggest problems.
Man of Steel - Introduced a planet-killing villain and alien invasion. Introduced and killed Zod.
BvS - Introduced Batman and Wonder Woman in what was essentially a Superman film. Introduced and killed Doomsday. Introduced and defeated/imprisoned Luthor. Death of Superman, the most iconic and pivotal moment in all of DC lore, in only the SECOND DCEU film.
Suicide Squad - Introduced magic, but not really a scale issue. Introduced Joker in a non-Batman film which was weird. Overall this movie doesn't have an escalation or pace problem except for the fact that zero of the characters had ever been on screen before.
Wonder Woman - Gods exist. Established WW as a god. She kills the only other remaining god.
That's all incredibly haphazard, in my estimation.
I saw it today and enjoyed it. If I compare it to Marvel I think it's better than the first installments of Cap and Thor...doesn't touch Civil War though. Gal played the role great and her and Pine's chemistry was on great display. Had I not known the RT score going in, I would have left expecting it to be in the 70% range.
Also, Gal Gadot Israeli hot.
Also, Gal Gadot Israeli hot.
I was just thinking how Harley Quinn was THE Halloween costume for chicks last year. I bet it'll be WW this year.
Brian Earl Spilner said:
I was just thinking how Harley Quinn was THE Halloween costume for chicks last year. I bet it'll be WW this year.
That's funny. My wife and daughter mentioned that today. Unsolicited. Just in conversation.
They said that will be the top costume this year. I thought they meant the academy award costume I was confused. They said no they meant Halloween like Harley Quinn last year.
Very average superhero movie
As a history buff, it bothered me how they handled Erich Ludendorff. Ludendorff was a real general in WW1, and he was pretty badass, conquering fortresses on his own. After the war, he became one of Hitler's biggest critics before his death.
In the movie he's a cartoon character who pals around with Dr Poison and is easily killed WW.
I get how they are trying to demonstrate WW's naive view that all men are under his evil spell, but why not just create a fake general instead?
As a history buff, it bothered me how they handled Erich Ludendorff. Ludendorff was a real general in WW1, and he was pretty badass, conquering fortresses on his own. After the war, he became one of Hitler's biggest critics before his death.
In the movie he's a cartoon character who pals around with Dr Poison and is easily killed WW.
I get how they are trying to demonstrate WW's naive view that all men are under his evil spell, but why not just create a fake general instead?
FancyKetchup14 said:
I saw it today and enjoyed it. If I compare it to Marvel I think it's better than the first installments of Cap and Thor...doesn't touch Civil War though. Gal played the role great and her and Pine's chemistry was on great display. Had I not known the RT score going in, I would have left expecting it to be in the 70% range.
Also, Gal Gadot Israeli hot.
Interesting. I consider Civil War to be one of the worst Marvel movies there is.
My favorite part was Chris Pine's German accent. I was hoping so badly he would have to speak German for real.
BassCowboy33 said:FancyKetchup14 said:
I saw it today and enjoyed it. If I compare it to Marvel I think it's better than the first installments of Cap and Thor...doesn't touch Civil War though. Gal played the role great and her and Pine's chemistry was on great display. Had I not known the RT score going in, I would have left expecting it to be in the 70% range.
Also, Gal Gadot Israeli hot.
Interesting. I consider Civil War to be one of the worst Marvel movies there is.
Wow, even above Captain America and Thor's entry movies or Ironman 3 ?
not if Thor distracted her with a babyBruce Almighty said:Brian Earl Spilner said:
So considering WW is a God and all, who wins a fight between her and Thor?
Wonder Woman would destroy Thor. DC heroes are much more powerful.
I can understand why women like this movie so much... it was like Captain America but with the male hero mansplaining everything to a pretty, scantily clad Amazon chick. Women love having everything explained to them.
the movie from jump to the end of the trench sequence and the scenes in the town was great
after that it went from meh to complete basura (the final fight and ending in particular)
after that it went from meh to complete basura (the final fight and ending in particular)
that said, gal gadot is great. chris pine is great. pretty much every character/actor is great. the script just gets really stupid down the home stretch.
Wait... someone quickly... Whats Thors moms name and whats WW moms name?jackie childs said:not if Thor distracted her with a babyBruce Almighty said:Brian Earl Spilner said:
So considering WW is a God and all, who wins a fight between her and Thor?
Wonder Woman would destroy Thor. DC heroes are much more powerful.
Martha.
dromo07 said:Wait... someone quickly... Whats Thors moms name and whats WW moms name?jackie childs said:not if Thor distracted her with a babyBruce Almighty said:Brian Earl Spilner said:
So considering WW is a God and all, who wins a fight between her and Thor?
Wonder Woman would destroy Thor. DC heroes are much more powerful.
Thor's Mom is
Joro, Jord or Jorth depending how you anglicize it is his Norse mythology mother
In Marvel universe Gaea is his mother although I think thats the same person by another alias.
Both are the embodiment of Earth.
Hippolyta is Wonder Woman's mother from Greek Mythology and the DC universe
TC is so wrong he's just wrong!
Nah jk. he's right. and so am i. the final 1/3 is just wtf nearly flat out bad, poorly written and poorly made. could not agree more as if they just should've left her killing Ludendorff, being wrong, then having to deal with that. The Ares stuff should've been over there and would've made it much more interesting. But alas, they had to have a end of the world fight... sigh.
That being said... there's no way Cap 1 is better than this. sticking to it. Cap 1 got better over time and re-watchability, and i imagine this will too. However that had the advantage of a very underrated Red Skull performance from Weaving.
Yes, this is getting more praise because it's a female lead, which in and of itself is stupid. It wouldn't be as well received if it was a male lead. However... it's deserving of the real praise as they took a 110lb Israeli girl known for basically eye candy before this, and made her a complex character, was well written and acted. Kudos.
Nah jk. he's right. and so am i. the final 1/3 is just wtf nearly flat out bad, poorly written and poorly made. could not agree more as if they just should've left her killing Ludendorff, being wrong, then having to deal with that. The Ares stuff should've been over there and would've made it much more interesting. But alas, they had to have a end of the world fight... sigh.
That being said... there's no way Cap 1 is better than this. sticking to it. Cap 1 got better over time and re-watchability, and i imagine this will too. However that had the advantage of a very underrated Red Skull performance from Weaving.
Yes, this is getting more praise because it's a female lead, which in and of itself is stupid. It wouldn't be as well received if it was a male lead. However... it's deserving of the real praise as they took a 110lb Israeli girl known for basically eye candy before this, and made her a complex character, was well written and acted. Kudos.
also, so you defeat Ares and the krauts and the allies are now bros
so... how do you explain WWII if Ares is really gone?
so... how do you explain WWII if Ares is really gone?
Exactly my question a couple pages back. Doesn't really make sense thematically.
Yeah, I'd say this is definitely better than Cap 1 and Thor.
But I think Winter Soldier is much better than WW.
And I'd probably put WW and Civil War on about the same level. Both good but not great movies, imho.
But I think Winter Soldier is much better than WW.
And I'd probably put WW and Civil War on about the same level. Both good but not great movies, imho.
Hitler > Ares either that or Ares morphs into .... Marscone said:
also, so you defeat Ares and the krauts and the allies are now bros
so... how do you explain WWII if Ares is really gone?
ummmmm..........the Germans are a naughty people prone to evil?cone said:
also, so you defeat Ares and the krauts and the allies are now bros
so... how do you explain WWII if Ares is really gone?
I went on record saying WW is a good time at the movies. I stand by that but I think I am in agreement with the general idea that it should have ended with her defeating the German and then realizing she has been wrong about mankind. That would have given the character solid footing going forward.
As for how WW stacks up against the Marvel movies, particularly Captain America, well, I am a huge fan of Cap, on the level of fandom as with Indiana Jones. So I readily admit a strong pro-Cap bias here. I love all of his movies and rank all 3 in the top 10. Cap 1 looks a lot like WW, but Cap 1 had phase 1's best villain in Hugo Weaving's Red Skull (I was not impressed with Loki in Thor 1 but agree that he has grown into the best Marvel villain with his appearances in The Avengers and Thor 2). I want to see WW a few more times but I think it will hold up pretty well for me despite that weak last act and the WTF at the very end.
As for how WW stacks up against the Marvel movies, particularly Captain America, well, I am a huge fan of Cap, on the level of fandom as with Indiana Jones. So I readily admit a strong pro-Cap bias here. I love all of his movies and rank all 3 in the top 10. Cap 1 looks a lot like WW, but Cap 1 had phase 1's best villain in Hugo Weaving's Red Skull (I was not impressed with Loki in Thor 1 but agree that he has grown into the best Marvel villain with his appearances in The Avengers and Thor 2). I want to see WW a few more times but I think it will hold up pretty well for me despite that weak last act and the WTF at the very end.
but that was cuz of Ares
First off, as I said earlier, I agree with those who say the third act is a bit of a letdown, but it's my opinion it's because the final fight involved too much talking by the villain
I was wondering about the WW2 issue throughout the film, and was wondering if they would show Ares survive and infect Hitler somehow. It's interesting that they make what is a pretty good stand alone film and now we have to complain about how it leaves a plot hole in the larger DCEU
I was wondering about the WW2 issue throughout the film, and was wondering if they would show Ares survive and infect Hitler somehow. It's interesting that they make what is a pretty good stand alone film and now we have to complain about how it leaves a plot hole in the larger DCEU
Bobcat06 said:
Very average superhero movie
As a history buff, it bothered me how they handled Erich Ludendorff. Ludendorff was a real general in WW1, and he was pretty badass, conquering fortresses on his own. After the war, he became one of Hitler's biggest critics before his death.
In the movie he's a cartoon character who pals around with Dr Poison and is easily killed WW.
I get how they are trying to demonstrate WW's naive view that all men are under his evil spell, but why not just create a fake general instead?
Ludendorff became one of Hitler's biggest critics after supporting his Munich putsch and holding many of the same racial beliefs as Hitler throughout his life. Yes, he was a badass in war, but a massive ******* as well.
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