So there was one empty seat at the table, who is going to be the fourth?

What if it were Harry?

The partners voting on Harry was hilarious

Why exactly did they need to make Harry a partner?

And why were Roger and Joan so against it?

Joan - Doesn't want to have a smaller piece of the pie.

Roger - Not 100% sure, but I don't think he thinks highly of him. A few episodes he thought he was firing him.

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The partners voting on Harry was hilarious

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I laugh every time Roger hears Harry's name mentioned. Dude despises him.

Television has been the major focus of advertising for multiple years, and firms have made it a point to highlight that. Harry is loyal, but could have taken opportunities multiple times at other places.

Head of television at a big time firm deserves a big time investment. I think we all laugh because it's Harry. Joan doesn't like anyone encroaching on what she thinks she has worked hard for, and Roger is stuck in the old days and doesn't get it.

When a firm is going to pursue new business, new business will want to see the head of television be a major role in the company.

We've seen allusions to the massive change TV has had on our culture throughout this show. In major instances, as well as minor ones line on turning the tube off and telling her mother to take the boys outside.

[This message has been edited by Bunk moreland (edited 5/19/2014 11:20p).]

Building on that, I just want to try and get everything straight before this Sunday. So...

- Chevy is dropping SCDP and going in-house. Jim Cutler's "solution" is to then promote the hell out of their computer/make Harry a partner. Roger and Joan are against obviously against that.

- But why did Roger seem so optimistic there in the end, when talking to Joan? I didn't quite get why his wheels were turning in such a way that gave him hope.

- I understand it has to do with McCann, but why was McCann (represented by the guy talking to Roger in the sauna) interested in SCDP? I know Roger kind of explained it with a line there in the end with Joan, but I can't remember what exactly it was.

I guess, overall, I'm just trying to understand the stakes/sides, now that Chevy is dropping them. Also, is Buick of importance to SCDP now, or is that just a Bob Benson thing?

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- But why did Roger seem so optimistic there in the end, when talking to Joan? I didn't quite get why his wheels were turning in such a way that gave him hope.

- I understand it has to do with McCann, but why was McCann (represented by the guy talking to Roger in the sauna) interested in SCDP? I know Roger kind of explained it with a line there in the end with Joan, but I can't remember what exactly it was.

I guess, overall, I'm just trying to understand the stakes/sides, now that Chevy is dropping them. Also, is Buick of importance to SCDP now, or is that just a Bob Benson thing?

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Roger realized later and told Joan that the McCann guy is worried about losing Buick to SC&P, so his questions to Roger in the sauna were really probing if Roger would reveal anything on that front. The GM exec told Bob the GM was still satisfied with SC&P overall.

Maybe if Roger can jump out front and use his GM connections to land the Buick account quickly then that could stave off the Cutler/Philip Morris offensive.

[This message has been edited by InternetFan02 (edited 5/20/2014 12:13a).]

Or maybe Roger *thinks* that SC&P has a chance to get Buick but they're really only interested in Bob Benson - would be a fatal miscalculation that could lead to Don being ousted over the Burger Chef pitch and Philip Morris power play as described by someone above.

If Roger uses Don to quickly get Buick, then they can't fire Don, so Cutler's Philip Morris ploy is off the table. Is that where we're going?

This really helps. Thanks guys.

Regrets, I've had a few. But then again, too few to mention.

I did what I had to do, and saw it through without excemption.

I planned each charted course, each careful step along the byway...

And more, much more than this, I did it my way...

(Best use of song in the entire series)

Don is going to pitch Peggy's idea and get fired for it, which will be the catalyst for Peggy walking out, right?

I haven't been reading this thread but two things about this season.

1. It feels a bit off balanced just how much Don has fallen. I mean for 5 seasons he was the best ad guy in the business right? So he drinks a little too much and blows one big meeting and now he is basically trash? It just doesn't seem like everyone would hate him that much and he would have fallen THAT far. He is still an ad genius. I understand he has fallen but it just feels like too much to me.

2. Remind me, why does every hate Harry so much? I don't remember him doing anything bad, but I could be totally forgetting something.

I got the idea that McCann was after Don, not the firm.

I thought McAnn was after Don too that line about making SC&P's problems their problems kind of hinted at that (I thought).

I'm just pissed that they half-assed this season by breaking it in two, what a stupid thing to do.

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1. It feels a bit off balanced just how much Don has fallen. I mean for 5 seasons he was the best ad guy in the business right? So he drinks a little too much and blows one big meeting and now he is basically trash? It just doesn't seem like everyone would hate him that much and he would have fallen THAT far. He is still an ad genius. I understand he has fallen but it just feels like too much to me.

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The one big meeting he pissed away cost the company untold amounts of business. Hershey isn't just some big meeting that they say "ah shucks" about. If you give it a home run pitch and they pass, that's one thing. And it wasn't just the meeting. The meeting represented the final breakdown that he had been battling against for such a long time in the office. His behavior had gotten increasingly worse. That was just the final straw, with all the proof on the table that he was mentally unfit to perform his duties at the time.

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It feels a bit off balanced just how much Don has fallen. I mean for 5 seasons he was the best ad guy in the business right? So he drinks a little too much and blows one big meeting and now he is basically trash? It just doesn't seem like everyone would hate him that much and he would have fallen THAT far. He is still an ad genius. I understand he has fallen but it just feels like too much to me.

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He'd been rogue for a while. In addition to the infamous cigarette slam (which I think hurt his relationship with Roger a bit), he unilaterally fired Jaguar. I think that's what sent Joan off the rails since she boned that dude to help land that account. Cutler is convinced he broke Ted and shipped him off to California. I remember Ted crying about "why do we even have meetings when Don decides everything" shortly before he stomped off to California. I can't recall what they know about him firing Pryce before Pryce killed himself, but I remember Bert chewing him out for "authorizing" a bonus to Pryce.

Couple all that with the drinking, the coming in late, the abuse. I think the Hershey pitch was the straw that broke it as opposed to an isolated incident.

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I got the idea that McCann was after Don, not the firm.

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I could see that also.

We know that SC&P is losing the Vega, as Chevy is moving it in house. However, GM loved the work, and are led to believe Buick will have something available soon. Just don't know how it fits.

did anyone else think megan was hiding something in that whole fondue pot conversation? seems like she was dodgy about what her next step was, and it was more than just about "missing her things"

my wife thought megan's comment about seeing don somewhere other than NY/CA was a romantic thing, but i cant help but wonder if megan is hiding something back in CA that she doesnt want don to know about.

I think it's just her taking more of her stuff to LA. The separation is coming.

It seemed to me like she was clandestinely moving out and leaving Don.

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Don is going to pitch Peggy's idea and get fired for it, which will be the catalyst for Peggy walking out, right?

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That's what I'm assuming, yes. I could see them having a rehearsal with Lou where he makes Don agree to pitch one idea or else he loses everything and then they build a bunch of suspense about whether Don will stick to the script or follow his heart and pitch Peggy's new idea instead. Hopefully it ends with another "carousel" moment (hey, since Harry's a partner now, he will probably be in the room for the pitch...which means he can leave crying again to make the circle complete )

I share other posters' sentiment that I think it would be a little played out for Don to leave and start another firm AGAIN, but maybe he takes Pete and Peggy with him and somehow Roger can convince both the Phillip Morris and Buick business to go with them (remember Don's pitch about how powerful it would make them look as a client if they could beat former cigarette opponent Don Draper back into submission?).

Of course, this is Mad Men, so there's no telling what will happen. The only thing I don't want is some stupid jump-the-shark cliffhanger where we see multiple characters traveling at the end of the episode (Don to LA, Ted to NY, Betty and Henry to somewhere else, etc) and then a shot of one of the planes crashing but we have to wait a year to figure out whose flight it was and who's dead.

Don also drank in the office all night with Peggy.

He has already gone against the terms of his agreement multiple times. IMO it would be weak to use the agreements of sticking to the script as a firing considering he has now drank in the office with a co-worker, blew up a meeting with PM and most certainly didn't stick to the script, etc.

But if they got that way, then they go that way.

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Don is going to pitch Peggy's idea and get fired for it, which will be the catalyst for Peggy walking out, right?

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I don't see this happening just because Peggy is in charge of the group and she has been working with Don to tweak and modify the pitch. I don't think it would be a violation if they change the script and Peggy approves. It's not like Don is going rogue and doing his own thing.

I do see office politics being a focus of the next episode but I don't think it has anything to do with Don going off script, rather it's more of the Cutler regime v. Sterling regime.

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He'd been rogue for a while. In addition to the infamous cigarette slam (which I think hurt his relationship with Roger a bit), he unilaterally fired Jaguar. I think that's what sent Joan off the rails since she boned that dude to help land that account. Cutler is convinced he broke Ted and shipped him off to California. I remember Ted crying about "why do we even have meetings when Don decides everything" shortly before he stomped off to California. I can't recall what they know about him firing Pryce before Pryce killed himself, but I remember Bert chewing him out for "authorizing" a bonus to Pryce.

Couple all that with the drinking, the coming in late, the abuse. I think the Hershey pitch was the straw that broke it as opposed to an isolated incident.

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Great recap of how damaging his past behavior has been and the impact it's had on his friends and coworkers. I think the tragedy of Don will be that, while he sees his past mistakes and is trying to change, the damage is far too extensive to overcome for some (Joan, Bert, Cutler, Ted). Redemption will come through Peggy and Pete, two flawed characters in their own right who need Don as much as he needs them.

Side note: Don's disintegrating relationship with Megan embodies this idea of paying for the sins of the past. Although he has remained faithful during their bi-coastal period, she assumes he is cheating on her. This lack of trust will ultimately kill the relationship.

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I don't see this happening just because Peggy is in charge of the group and she has been working with Don to tweak and modify the pitch. I don't think it would be a violation if they change the script and Peggy approves. It's not like Don is going rogue and doing his own thing.

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This could be the catalyst for a Don/Peggy move. I could see Lou trying to leverage Don's off script pitch to get him fired, Peggy defending Don by saying it was her idea, and Lou getting her fired, as well.

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I don't see this happening just because Peggy is in charge of the group and she has been working with Don to tweak and modify the pitch. I don't think it would be a violation if they change the script and Peggy approves. It's not like Don is going rogue and doing his own thing.

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This could be the catalyst for a Don/Peggy move. I could see Lou trying to leverage Don's off script pitch to get him fired, Peggy defending Don by saying it was her idea, and Lou getting her fired, as well.

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i could see this happening. But I can't see them starting over with a new agency. It would be a repeat of the end of season 3 - they've already built a new agency from scratch, and after 4 successful years Don determined that they needed to merge to stay viable. I see in Wikipedia that the previously mentioned Mary Wells starts her own agency around this time - maybe Don/Peggy/Pete land at some forward thinking creative driven agency.

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I can't recall what they know about him firing Pryce before Pryce killed himself, but I remember Bert chewing him out for "authorizing" a bonus to Pryce.

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Lane forged Dons signature. Bert found out and questioned Don, who then demanded Lanes resignation. Don't remember if Don clarified it with Bert or if he allowed it to pass.

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Redemption will come through Peggy and Pete, two flawed characters in their own right who need Don as much as he needs them.

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Wheres the redemption for Pete? He seems to be on top of his game at work - just needs to re establish his personal life. Why not have Trudy take him back? Maybe her Dad dies and asks her to forgive him. Trudy has been presented as the anti-Betty - a homemaker who is fulfilled in life and adapts to the changing times. Her only major problem with Pete was his lack of discretion - it's not like they had this toxic fighting relationship.

Peggy is definitely being setup to have a fulfilling happy ending both professionally and romantically. Lots of options for her. If the theme of mad men is the downfall of the men if that era then it's also about the rise of women. Peggy's also still too young in 1969 to go through the crisis of career vs kids like Joan did a couple seasons ago.

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Side note: Don's disintegrating relationship with Megan embodies this idea of paying for the sins of the past. Although he has remained faithful during their bi-coastal period, she assumes he is cheating on her. This lack of trust will ultimately kill the relationship.

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Interesting. Could see Megan melting down over catching Don sharing an emotional moment with Peggy - goes back to everyone always assuming she slept with him.

And *if* Don is going to end this show in a relationship, doesn't it have to be Peggy? Now that they've strung out this Megan ending they can't introduce a new character and have him build that genuine bond in just 8 episodes can they?

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Don also drank in the office all night with Peggy.

He has already gone against the terms of his agreement multiple times. IMO it would be weak to use the agreements of sticking to the script as a firing considering he has now drank in the office with a co-worker, blew up a meeting with PM and most certainly didn't stick to the script, etc.

But if they got that way, then they go that way.

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Getting hammered that day was against the terms. But getting hammered on a Sunday is not during business hours.

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And *if* Don is going to end this show in a relationship, doesn't it have to be Peggy? Now that they've strung out this Megan ending they can't introduce a new character and have him build that genuine bond in just 8 episodes can they?

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No way Don and Peggy ever get together.

Weiner could easily introduce some woman in the final moments of the final episode, and allude to the fact that Don will end up with her. I don't think there necessarily has to be another established relationship for him in these final eight episodes.

[This message has been edited by TCTTS (edited 5/20/2014 12:23p).]

I could definitely see Don running into Neve Campbell again, though.

I don't think he ever told Bert what happened with the forgery, but I think he told Roger that he fired Pryce.

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Wheres the redemption for Pete?

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I meant Don's redemption will come through Pete and Peggy.