*** TRUE DETECTIVE: NIGHT COUNTRY ***

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veryfuller
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In reply to TCTTS • 7:23a, 2/19/24
Staff
AG
Im confused.

I get that getting justice for the murdered girl was likely never going to happen. But then again, the guys that killed her were murdered and the detectives knew that, so that wasn't really at stake in their decision.

They decided that, in this instance, it was totally fine for these women to lead the men out into the cold to their deaths because they had done a bad thing and weren't going to get caught. The men were essentially the same as the wife beater who the detectives killed earlier (although in that situation he would have certainly been put in jail, no?).

The thesis of the season was basically "Women need to take matters into their own hands, and everyone should be cool with that, no questions asked. In fact, if you do ask questions you are probably a misogynist". I base that on any character that had questions about the deaths of these men (especially the wife beater) was quickly put in their place or shown to be a terrible human.

I was actually wondering how they were going to reconcile the murder the detectives committed all season, and then it wasn't. It was "justified". Which is a choice, but I don't think the show really did even a decent job of showing why it was a necessary choice.

I think there is a nuanced story about feeling powerless and seeking your own justice, but to just \_()_/ it off with no consequences or moral struggle is lazy and boring and I hated it.
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Claude!
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In reply to BassCowboy33 • 7:28a, 2/19/24
BassCowboy33 said:
C@LAg said:

Season Four finale of HBO's crime-drama anthology not only sticks the landing it sets the standard for how to close a 'True Detective' case



One thing I've learned about TexAgs (especially F16), is that oftentimes the views expressed here aren't real life. This is one of the first times I've felt that on the Entertainment board. But the difference in speaking to people in the real world vs. what's said on this thread has been stark.
In this case, it may be more a disconnect between professional reviewers and general audiences. Rotten Tomatoes may not be a great barometer for what is good or bad, but reviewers have Season 4 rated at 93%, while audiences are at 63%. That's a pretty big difference. For reference, Season 1 is 91%/88%.
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BassCowboy33
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In reply to BowSowy • 7:31a, 2/19/24
BowSowy said:
BassCowboy33 said:
C@LAg said:

Season Four finale of HBO's crime-drama anthology not only sticks the landing it sets the standard for how to close a 'True Detective' case



One thing I've learned about TexAgs (especially F16), is that oftentimes the views expressed here aren't real life. This is one of the first times I've felt that on the Entertainment board. But the difference in speaking to people in the real world vs. what's said on this thread has been stark.
I mean, if you want to go anecdotal - everyone I know who watches/watched this season (aside from one person) has either fallen off completely or was disappointed in how it ended. And the True Detective subreddit is overwhelmingly negative on this season. So it's not just some TexAgs bubble
And yet this season became True Detective's most-watched season ever, smashing through S1 as well as HBO's other recent hit shows Succession and White Lotus. While I didn't think this season was as good as S1, it clearly has found a massive audience. I'm sure some of that number is attributed to the growth of the platform.

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TCTTS
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In reply to veryfuller • 7:36a, 2/19/24
AG
I think your thesis is reading way more into it than what was actually there, while taking it a bit too personally in the process. I think all the show was doing was saying THESE particular women were justified in THIS particular situation. Not that all women are justified and we should all be cool with it and all men suck or whatever. That, to me, is projecting something that wasn't in the text.

Was it all way too on-the-nose and poorly executed? No doubt. But I didn't see it at some broader, scathing social commentary. It was too inept for that.
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BowSowy
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In reply to BassCowboy33 • 8:11a, 2/19/24
AG
BassCowboy33 said:
BowSowy said:
BassCowboy33 said:
C@LAg said:

Season Four finale of HBO's crime-drama anthology not only sticks the landing it sets the standard for how to close a 'True Detective' case



One thing I've learned about TexAgs (especially F16), is that oftentimes the views expressed here aren't real life. This is one of the first times I've felt that on the Entertainment board. But the difference in speaking to people in the real world vs. what's said on this thread has been stark.
I mean, if you want to go anecdotal - everyone I know who watches/watched this season (aside from one person) has either fallen off completely or was disappointed in how it ended. And the True Detective subreddit is overwhelmingly negative on this season. So it's not just some TexAgs bubble
And yet this season became True Detective's most-watched season ever, smashing through S1 as well as HBO's other recent hit shows Succession and White Lotus. While I didn't think this season was as good as S1, it clearly has found a massive audience. I'm sure some of that number is attributed to the growth of the platform.

It had great marketing and the setting/premise was intriguing, no one denies that. You're a bit all over the place, are you trying to argue that most people you know that it was good, and the TexAgs bubble disagrees? Or are you trying to argue that a lot of people watched it?
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veryfuller
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In reply to TCTTS • 8:22a, 2/19/24
Staff
AG
I don't think anyone is taking this mess of a show personally. I just have a take on what I watched. And I don't think I'm reading too much into it. You don't have to agree with my take or maybe it wasn't the issue that bothered you the most or whatever.

And to be clear, this type of story bothers me no matter the gender of the "justified" murderers (I am probably one of the only people I know in my generation that absolutely HATES The Boondocks Saints). I think, in particular, it bothers me that this was a cop show and they just shrugged off the murders.

Like, Gone Baby Gone is an example of the type of ending that would have been more interesting to me here and would have underlined the point it seems like they were really going for about the injustice these natives face. Instead it was just a happy ending that doesn't make sense and kind of undercuts its own message. IMHO
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Prosperdick
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8:29a, 2/19/24
AG
Can anyone please explain why the years long riff between Danvers and Navarro? It was a similar dynamic in S1 with Rust and Marty and they eventually showed that Rust slept with Marty's wife...OK, that totally explains it, got it.

Are we really to believe Danvers got Navarro thrown off the force or demoted (or she quit, whatever) and ceased all communication with her because she shot Wheeler RIGHT before she would have as well. Was it frontier justice envy?

Oh wait, Navarro saw a ghost and Danvers could tell she saw something yet she wouldn't own up to it? Really? You would think the incident with Wheeler would bring them closer together, if nothing else to ensure that neither would spill the beans.

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BowSowy
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In reply to Prosperdick • 8:41a, 2/19/24
AG
The showrunner wanted the tension because it felt right. Listen to Danvers and learn when to stop asking questions.
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BassCowboy33
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In reply to BowSowy • 8:42a, 2/19/24
BowSowy said:
BassCowboy33 said:
BowSowy said:
BassCowboy33 said:
C@LAg said:

Season Four finale of HBO's crime-drama anthology not only sticks the landing it sets the standard for how to close a 'True Detective' case



One thing I've learned about TexAgs (especially F16), is that oftentimes the views expressed here aren't real life. This is one of the first times I've felt that on the Entertainment board. But the difference in speaking to people in the real world vs. what's said on this thread has been stark.
I mean, if you want to go anecdotal - everyone I know who watches/watched this season (aside from one person) has either fallen off completely or was disappointed in how it ended. And the True Detective subreddit is overwhelmingly negative on this season. So it's not just some TexAgs bubble
And yet this season became True Detective's most-watched season ever, smashing through S1 as well as HBO's other recent hit shows Succession and White Lotus. While I didn't think this season was as good as S1, it clearly has found a massive audience. I'm sure some of that number is attributed to the growth of the platform.

It had great marketing and the setting/premise was intriguing, no one denies that. You're a bit all over the place, are you trying to argue that most people you know that it was good, and the TexAgs bubble disagrees? Or are you trying to argue that a lot of people watched it?

I'm arguing that (1) it's not as bad as TexAgs is making it seem and (2) a lot of people watched it (although that's more a statement of fact based on numbers).

Edit: I'll also make a personal editorial. People who follow me on the E board know that my bar is fairly low. I rate stuff almost solely on enjoyability. I don't compare to previous seasons or films and rank it almost exclusively on "Did I have a good time". Plot holes? Don't really care. Cliche plot lines? The more the better. Unrealistic scenarios? Give them to me. I'm a child of the 80s and 90s, what can I say?

Where my bar raises is when it's based on books and such. For example, I HATED the recent LotR adaptation and the Without Remorse film is one of the worst I've ever seen.
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Seven Costanza
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In reply to Prosperdick • 8:44a, 2/19/24
AG
I wouldn't try to read into or attempt to figure out any of it. This was amateur hour and they had no idea what they were doing with the show.
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Bigfootisreal
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8:51a, 2/19/24
So many things never added up. They are drilling in ice/permafrost. Suddenly they discover a micro-organism that can "save" humanity. But they need more pollution to trigger global warming to defrost permafrost? WTF?? Should have stuck with corporate greed.

What will everyone there do now that the mine is shut down??? Where are the jobs at?

Did Navarro live, or was that her spirit?

The only thing that was true to the whole series was they stuck with it to find out what happened. Even though it was really far out that the women drove them out and made them freeze.

What was the creature in ice that was in the swirly pattern in the cave?

In the end it felt like they were pandering toward fans of the series without producing a cohesive store or compelling characters.
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AgShaun00
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8:53a, 2/19/24
AG
# of subscribers from S1 to S4 would be interesting to see to really compare the viewers. I know now that I get HBO "free" due to my ATT subscription and I wouldn't be paying for it now. I did when GoT was on towards the end. That when I watched the first 3 season of TD. Also, there isn't crap on tv that catches my eye. If I had other shows that were on, I would have dropped this until I had dead time. This season was ok, but had the potential to do so much more.
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Captain Winky
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In reply to LouisHerbertWong • 9:03a, 2/19/24
Just coming back to gloat. Looks like my decision to bail got better every Sunday. I hope you are happy you stuck it out.
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fig96
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In reply to TCTTS • 9:20a, 2/19/24
AG
TCTTS said:
I think your thesis is reading way more into it than what was actually there, while taking it a bit too personally in the process. I think all the show was doing was saying THESE particular women were justified in THIS particular situation. Not that all women are justified and we should all be cool with it and all men suck or whatever. That, to me, is projecting something that wasn't in the text.

Was it all way too on-the-nose and poorly executed? No doubt. But I didn't see it at some broader, scathing social commentary. It was too inept for that.
Not to mention the villain (head of the mine) was female and very complicit.

As for the finale, I didn't have high hopes but I thought they'd pull a few things off after a strong ep 5. I was mistaken.

I wouldn't have minded if they'd written a few things off to supernatural yadda yadda like the oranges, Navarro's visions, etc. But they set up big things with "how do we explain this" then just hand waved them all away, in particular the key event of the series.

We know the men didn't just freeze and we explained how they were sent out into the cold, but how did they die? Why did they seem terrified/in pain? Why were they tearing their eyes out? Why were their ears bleeding? Why did Heiss's ears bleed? Did we just forget that Navarro's ears looked to be bleeding at the end of ep 4?

I will add that there was one other interesting/likable character, Rose was a lot more intriguing than the others. But...yeah. That whole season was pretty forgettable.
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Bird Poo
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In reply to Captain Winky • 9:22a, 2/19/24
AG
Good decision.

We were disappointed. Script was all over the place with pointless scenes and storylines. Jodie Foster's fake rugged voice became fingernails on a chalkboard after a while. Meanwhile the media is putting these two on a pedestal. Are they in a relationship or something?
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Prosperdick
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In reply to fig96 • 9:50a, 2/19/24
AG
Quote:
I will add that there was one other interesting/likable character, Rose was a lot more intriguing than the others. But...yeah. That whole season was pretty forgettable.
Rose and Eddie were the only two that were interesting and had any kind of charisma. I loved when Eddie faked proposed to Navarro to distract her from resetting her finger. I also liked the interactions with Navarro and Rose but everything else was a hot mess, or I guess I should say a cold mess.
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Prosperdick
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In reply to Bird Poo • 9:54a, 2/19/24
AG
Bird Poo said:
Good decision.

We were disappointed. Script was all over the place with pointless scenes and storylines. Jodie Foster's fake rugged voice became fingernails on a chalkboard after a while. Meanwhile the media is putting these two on a pedestal. Are they in a relationship or something?
Silence of the Lambs happened to be on and my wife and I watched just to see a young Jodie Foster and damn, it's like two totally different people.

Yeah Danvers was not likeable at all...sleeping with all the married men in town, treating Prior like dog s***, and had no charisma at all. I never felt like I had a rooting interest for any of the characters save Eddie and Rose.

At least Marty was funny and interesting although obviously a d-bag adulterer.
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cajunaggie08
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9:57a, 2/19/24
AG
I thought it was very convenient for this research facility to sit on top of an ice cave while simultaneously only being a few hundred yards away from the ocean.
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elfurioso92
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10:00a, 2/19/24
AG
It's really hard to understand given the type of budget this show must have had how they didn't spend more time working out the basic elements of the story to make it more compelling. This felt like a leftover script from the x-files.
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torrid
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In reply to fig96 • 10:09a, 2/19/24
AG
fig96 said:


I will add that there was one other interesting/likable character, Rose was a lot more intriguing than the others. But...yeah. That whole season was pretty forgettable.
As I was watching her help Peter dispose of the bodies, it seemed like something she had done before. I that character could have her own series. It was almost an extension of Fiona Shaw's role in "Killing Eve".
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Old Tom Morris
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In reply to fig96 • 10:24a, 2/19/24
fig96 said:
TCTTS said:
I think your thesis is reading way more into it than what was actually there, while taking it a bit too personally in the process. I think all the show was doing was saying THESE particular women were justified in THIS particular situation. Not that all women are justified and we should all be cool with it and all men suck or whatever. That, to me, is projecting something that wasn't in the text.

Was it all way too on-the-nose and poorly executed? No doubt. But I didn't see it at some broader, scathing social commentary. It was too inept for that.
Not to mention the villain (head of the mine) was female and very complicit.

As for the finale, I didn't have high hopes but I thought they'd pull a few things off after a strong ep 5. I was mistaken.

I wouldn't have minded if they'd written a few things off to supernatural yadda yadda like the oranges, Navarro's visions, etc. But they set up big things with "how do we explain this" then just hand waved them all away, in particular the key event of the series.

We know the men didn't just freeze and we explained how they were sent out into the cold, but how did they die? Why did they seem terrified/in pain? Why were they tearing their eyes out? Why were their ears bleeding? Why did Heiss's ears bleed? Did we just forget that Navarro's ears looked to be bleeding at the end of ep 4?

I will add that there was one other interesting/likable character, Rose was a lot more intriguing than the others. But...yeah. That whole season was pretty forgettable.


I'm not sure I have ever watched a show that had more parts of the story conflict with other parts of the story. Total mess.
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Old Tom Morris
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10:25a, 2/19/24
Also, they completely dookied on "time is a flat circle" with that nonsensical, shoehorned usage. Classic concept and line from season 1 turned into a cheap callback.

It reminded me of an old cheesy Calvin Klein fragrance commerical - "is this me stabbing Annie. Or Annie stabbing me? I don't know where my knife ends and hers begins. Time is a flat circle. Calvin Klein Obsession"
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Brian Earl Spilner
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10:43a, 2/19/24
AG
I have a friend who loves supernatural/horror stuff, as well as true crime. I texted her after episode 2 to recommend the show. She was gonna start it this week after it finished airing.

As a courtesy, I told her last night she shouldn't bother.

I should probably do it that way more often to save myself from crappy shows.
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Brian Earl Spilner
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In reply to Prosperdick • 10:45a, 2/19/24
AG
Prosperdick said:
Bird Poo said:
Good decision.

We were disappointed. Script was all over the place with pointless scenes and storylines. Jodie Foster's fake rugged voice became fingernails on a chalkboard after a while. Meanwhile the media is putting these two on a pedestal. Are they in a relationship or something?
Silence of the Lambs happened to be on and my wife and I watched just to see a young Jodie Foster and damn, it's like two totally different people.

Yeah Danvers was not likeable at all...sleeping with all the married men in town, treating Prior like dog s***, and had no charisma at all. I never felt like I had a rooting interest for any of the characters save Eddie and Rose.

At least Marty was funny and interesting although obviously a d-bag adulterer.
Did you ever see Mare of Easttown? Now that's a show that actually competes with Silence of the Lambs, one episode in particular.

I urge everyone who hasn't seen it, to give that one a watch. It'll wash the taste of this crappy show out of your mouth. It's basically a much better version of this show.
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Prosperdick
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In reply to Brian Earl Spilner • 10:57a, 2/19/24
AG
Brian Earl Spilner said:
Prosperdick said:
Bird Poo said:
Good decision.

We were disappointed. Script was all over the place with pointless scenes and storylines. Jodie Foster's fake rugged voice became fingernails on a chalkboard after a while. Meanwhile the media is putting these two on a pedestal. Are they in a relationship or something?
Silence of the Lambs happened to be on and my wife and I watched just to see a young Jodie Foster and damn, it's like two totally different people.

Yeah Danvers was not likeable at all...sleeping with all the married men in town, treating Prior like dog s***, and had no charisma at all. I never felt like I had a rooting interest for any of the characters save Eddie and Rose.

At least Marty was funny and interesting although obviously a d-bag adulterer.
Did you ever see Mare of Easttown? Now that's a show that actually competes with Silence of the Lambs, one episode in particular.

I urge everyone who hasn't seen it, to give that one a watch. It'll wash the taste of this crappy show out of your mouth. It's basically a much better version of this show.
I'll give it a whirl.
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cr0wbar
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11:08a, 2/19/24
AG
Think we've all successfully beat this one into the ground. Couple points I didn't see so far:

  • Navarro Visions: After Clark froze - she comes back in and sees Clark do his shuddering? At that moment I thought "HER" was Navarro. (Flat Circle / Maybe Navarro is the being this whole time!) That didn't seem to be the case
  • Tongue magic: Danvers clearly sees some residue where the tongue was, she drops the orange slice and the residue seems to magically gravitate towards it. So - what was that all about?
  • So Clark had that weird shudder "She's Awake" moment - and the cleaning crew runs in there. That's what had happened?
  • Stories are Stories: So it looks like Navarro is a ghost/guide now - guiding Danvers on her back porch? Or she's shaking up with her months later and hiding.

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Southlake
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11:09a, 2/19/24
That ice cave looked like a ride in Disney Land…

A stinker that really could have been very good. Seemed they just didn't want to build a complex path to a conclusion. Makes me wonder if anyone execs previewed it and were afraid to say, "Wow, this really sux; we can do better…" Maybe filming thru the Covid pandemic and lockdown threw production and development way off and in the end, they were just out of time and resources for development and editing?
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Teddy Perkins
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11:17a, 2/19/24
AG
If anyone wants to waste more time on this train wreck...

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Brian Earl Spilner
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In reply to Southlake • 11:42a, 2/19/24
AG
I thought the exact same thing about the ice cave. Looked so much like a set, and my brain immediately went to the Everest ride at Animal Kingdom.
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jdubd34
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12:06p, 2/19/24
AG
I liked the first 5 episodes more than most here, but the last episode was a complete let down. I liked Peter's character ok.

The cleaning crew murderers not leaving any evidence behind, besides the handprint?
The search for murder of 5+ scientists didn't uncover that there was a hatch to a secret lab?
The first group of scientists died of freezing or not? I guess maybe here we accept some form of supernatural?
The last scientist, forgot his name. I guess he went crazy and really believed Annie was haunting him?, but he just walks out to die after surviving in the station (that is a 5 murder crime scene) for about 2 weeks?
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MROD92
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1:21p, 2/19/24
Abomination of a show. The majority of us agree the two most likable characters are Rose and some dude missing his sponge Bob tooth brush.
Peter shows up to Rose in the middle of the night, unannounced, on New Years Eve, in a blizzard. Rose is conveniently just cleaning her rifle at the table (not cliche at all)
Peter "Danvers sent me, said to take me where Julia is"
Rose, "oh it's going to be one of THEM nights"
You see, this is Night Country, where disposing of bodies is simply routine, no questions asked.
You can't watch this Peter, turn around. "I want to see" you don't want to see me remove yo Daddy's lungs!!!"
Two seconds later, now turn around, you ain't finished yet, you need to do everything else. Which is it Rose? Just go burn a huge blunt and hang out with Rust's dad chasing one eyed polar bears

For the increased viewership, my explanation is expanded numbers of households with HBO and I liken it to a new Star Wars movie after a prolonged absence. First True Detective series in awhile, so the anticipation was there, but future seasons will suffer if the product is as bad as this one.
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Bunk Moreland
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1:27p, 2/19/24
So glad I stopped watching after ep 3 or 4 whenever it was. This thread has been great entertainment to follow along.
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One Louder
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1:35p, 2/19/24
AG
While we were watching Annie destroy the lab findings, Kiddoc theorized to me that Annie must have somehow got exposed to this micro-organism that brought her back to life in some form of being yet to be determined and I got pissy that I thought he had spoiled it for me.

Now I'm pissed the writers didn't go more that direction. It would have at least tied some of this nonsense together.
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Prosperdick
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In reply to Prosperdick • 2:03p, 2/19/24
AG
Quote:
ETA - I meant The Prestige TV Podcast, not The Watch where Andy Greenwald actually has been fairly critical of many of the flaws of the show. I've just now provided more oversight of my post than anyone involved with this silly self-absorbed show.
OK I haven't listened to The Prestige podcast but did just listen the The Watch and Andy stuck to his guns about this show not landing at all with him and pointed out (like we all did) that there just wasn't anything interesting about Danvers or Navarro nor their relationship as detective partners.

Chris Ryan tried to toe the "company" line but you could tell he didn't really think that much of it either but was way more guarded with his comments.

At least I know I can still trust Greenwald's opinion going forward.
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Brian Earl Spilner
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2:04p, 2/19/24
AG
So glad The Watch shared all of our frustrations. Their credibility would've been pretty shot with me if they had praised it.
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