TCTTS said:

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That's so funny, because every time we're there, or in the freezer basement, and there's some random, buck naked man or woman just standing there, letting it all hang out, I can't help but wonder - every time - the kind of person who seeks out that specific kind of extra work.

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Whatever it takes to get Westworld on my resume!

So the goggle/white coat thing for Caleb and William makes me wonder...

What if William is Caleb? Caleb was shot in the head, brain dead, and given a copy of Williams brain?

Milkshake spilling over the counter similar to scene where his wife dies and the water is spilling over the tub (alluded to in episode four when he wakes up in tub too).

"You're not my son"

Somebody alluding to Caleb shooting his friend possibly. What if Caleb shoots his friend like William shot his daughter?

Caleb talking about not having anything real in life mirrors William having nothing real in the park and just wanting some thing to be real.

Caleb has a deeper sense of connection with Dolores and I think that that is what the drug trip reveals when he's looking at her. He's not sexually attracted at all to her.

Dolores giving William a fake (for him) cornerstone memory and using him to free humans like William used Dolores for the maze would be some symmetry for the show.

I don't know. I don't have the intricate knowledge of the show, but William has to have some denouement for his character and I don't think it all happens in the last theee episodes. It makes more sense to be happening now.

My only concern is that someone-else-is-actually-William has already been done as a big reveal this series. That said, you might be on to something, as it does feel like there's possibly some kind of connection, for all the reasons you've named. They also made a thing of Dolores falling into Caleb's arms at the end of the first episode just like she did when she collapsed and fell into young William's arms in season one. The actors specifically called that moment out and made the comparison in a couple of interviews.

TCTTS said:

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That's so funny, because every time we're there, or in the freezer basement, and there's some random, buck naked man or woman just standing there, letting it all hang out, I can't help but wonder - every time - the kind of person who seeks out that specific kind of extra work.

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I always wonder how much those people get paid to stand or lie around naked.

Like, random no-name-no-lines actress playing one of Craster's daughter-wives getting railed by mutinous Nights Watchmen...how much she get for that?

redline248 said:

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TCTTS said:

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That's so funny, because every time we're there, or in the freezer basement, and there's some random, buck naked man or woman just standing there, letting it all hang out, I can't help but wonder - every time - the kind of person who seeks out that specific kind of extra work.

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I always wonder how much those people get paid to stand or lie around naked.

Like, random no-name-no-lines actress playing one of Craster's daughter-wives getting railed by mutinous Nights Watchmen...how much she get for that?

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I think SAG (Screen Actors Guild) minimum for extras is like $175/day. Around there. But I imagine nude work is potentially considered "skilled" or "special ability" background work, which would see a minor bump to that day rate. Typically, extras make less than anyone on set. Heck, nearly 15 years ago, as a production assistant, which is basically a glorified gopher and the lowest on the totem pole, crew-wise, I was making $250/day. In other words, you couldn't pay me to stand around naked on that set. It's not even close to worth it.

That is, unless you're doing an "unprecedented amount of simulated sex"...

https://deadline.com/2015/09/westworld-extras-simulated-sex-hbo-pay-1201561486/

"appear fully nude; wear a pubic hair patch; perform genital-to-genital touching; have your genitals painted; simulate oral sex with hand-to-genital touching; contort to form a table-like shape while being fully nude; pose on all fours while others who are fully nude ride on your back; ride on someone's back while you are both fully nude; and other assorted acts the Project may require. ..."

When did I miss the 'posing on all fours while others who are nude ride on your back' part?

This is the kind of theory I'm here for. This is piecing together some good pieces. I don't think it's true, but I love it.

Man, I'm listening to the recappables theories episode and I can't decide if people are just way too far out there with theories this season or if we really are going to have a massive 'oh s---' moment soon.

I'm coming around on this season just seeming way too straightforward.

What was the casting call like for the two guys who had to rescue Owen Wilson from the hot tub in Hall Pass?

That one guy probably had to do multiple scenes where they told him to fluff it up and get it closer to Owen Wilson's face.

bobinator said:

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Man, I'm listening to the recappables theories episode and I can't decide if people are just way too far out there with theories this season or if we really are going to have a massive 'oh s---' moment soon.

I'm coming around on this season just seeming way too straightforward.

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Those are my feelings exactly. The Recappables guys are definitely getting too out there with a few of their theories, but then, yeah, something about this season feels *intentionally* too straightforward, almost as a misdirect. Something's up, to the point where I'm questioning everything now. AgStuckinLBK is straight up suggesting that Caleb is William, and without hesitation, I'm like yeah, "Yeah, that makes sense." You can talk me into just about any theory right now.

(For the record, AgStuckinLBK, again, I do think you're into something, I just don't know quite what yet.)

Yeah... that's where I am.

Earlier I talked myself in and out of a theory that the 'divergents' were being copied and sent into host bodies in the park for reprogramming/conditioning and that what Caleb experienced happened in War World.

Ha, that's not bad!

Quote:

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something about this season feels *intentionally* too straightforward, almost as a misdirect.

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Yep, I feel the same.

Something isn't "real" in the main story. Not sure what it is. But at some point I think we end up back in the park. After all the show is "West World"

For what it's worth, if it happens, I called something being 'off' about the real world just from the trailers.

YellowPot_97 said:

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Something isn't "real" in the main story. Not sure what it is. But at some point I think we end up back in the park. After all the show is "West World"

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Yes. Something doesn't seem right. Serac said he'd do anything to save his side and since he knows dolores is in future LA, why wouldn't he just EMP it and destroy her and the copies and be done? He's already shown that he'll turn on his brother. I can't imagine what would be holding him back.

I get that he can't use Rehoboam to tell him the future in this situation like he would have done in the past because Rehoboam needs data and Dolores is one poorly misunderstood datum that screws up the whole equation (like the mule screws up psychohistory in the foundation series).

I don't get though why he wouldn't kill a city to, in his mind, save the world AND save the future of the world. He talks on and on about Dolores being the divergence that topples it all. Why isn't he doing something drastic to stop her?

Also, somethings not adding up about the mechanics of the world and Maeve being able to use her power on machines that aren't on a network (at least I would think the guns of the Asian gang wouldn't be on the network) sets me up to believe we're in some sort of simulation.

Don't know though, but that's what I love about the show

I do agree that it feels a little weird that Serac isn't moving heaven and earth to stop Dolores. But I can't tell if that's because of a sleight-of-hand-like simulation theory - or - if it's simply a plot point the show requires, otherwise there'd be no season if Serac simply hired an army or dropped a bomb to eliminate her. That said, now that all hell has broken loose, and Dolores has untethered humanity from Rehoboam, maybe Serac finally steps it up a notch. Maybe, before, he was trying to snuff her out while also trying keep some semblance of order.

It's unclear how much direct power he has. He can influence other people, certainly, but influence takes time. He crashed a plane, but that guy worked with him so he might have had access to its computer.

But like in Brazil he used his knowledge to influence events.

Yeah, that's a good point.

His reaction on the plane to the disturbance didn't look like a reaction to a simulated scenario.

I agree something is off (there's no way I'm going to go through a whole season understanding everything), but I definitely think Delores dropping the truth is real.

I would agree with that. Dolores is in the real world, doing real things. Now, whether there's another Dolores in a simulation is up for debate...

I think Serac's curiosity is getting the best of him. There's a reason he didn't destroy the outlier humans.

He wants to be God, and as such, wants to fully understand, predict, and control everything. He desperately needs the data from Westworld to feed into Rehoboam, from humans and hosts alike.

His pride is his major downfall.

This is probably something that is obvious, but what is the connection/relationship between incite and the Delos corporation?

A super-explicit connection hasn't been revealed yet, but here's what we do know...

- Twenty years or so ago (I can't remember the exact number), Serac invested in Delos. By the time of season three, through additional investments, his shares have now grown to position him as the majority stock holder.

- Jerry, the investor Dolores killed in the opening of the season, was revealed to have investments in both companies, if I recall correctly. I think he technically worked for Incite at one point, and then invested in Delos, but was no longer involved with Incite when Dolores killed him (though he still had Incite files on-hand that she accessed).

- We also know that Liam visited one of the Westworld parks at some point, because he his book was in The Forge, which is how Dolores learned about him.

There might be more connections I'm forgetting, so anyone feel free to correct me or add anything I might have missed.

Thanks. So as far as we know, Incite and Delos are not affiliated companies? As in one does not own a piece of the other, they don't have common majority ownership, and their operations aren't connected?

Edit: well I guess they do have common majority ownership now that serac owns a majority share of Delos? But before that, what I said above is correct?

As far as I know, I think you're right.

Essentially, the bare bones version is this...

Serac and his brother teamed with Incite in order to obtain Incite's vast data it had collected on citizens, before certain privacy laws were established. Then, at some point well into their operations with Incite, Serac discovered that a theme park called Westworld actually had better data than he/Incite did. It might not have been as much data, but because people were free to be their true serves in Westworld, the data secretly collected from Westworld's four million guests was and still is incredibly valuable to Serac/Rehoboam. So Serac did two things...

1) Twenty-ish years ago, started the long con of investing in Delos via shell corporations created and influenced by Rehoboam.

2) More recently, utilized Charlotte Hale as a mole in order to smuggle out the Westworld guest data.

Charlotte ultimately failed in her efforts, so Serac proceeded with his more blunt/overt approach, finally becoming a majority shareholder in Delos.

But yeah, it doesn't appear as if the Delos/Incite connection is any greater than that, though we could be proven wrong. Heck, when he initially invested in Delos, young Serac could have somehow influenced Ford/Arnold back in the day. Who knows if they get that connected with it, but it wouldn't surprise me.

And do we know if Incite has been able to access and use the Delos information yet? Was serac able to transfer that info to invite after gaining a majority control of Delos?

When I google it, i can't find much. Seems like they were competitors in the past, but maybe not now that serac is a majority owner in each of them.

I'm pretty sure Serac doesn't have any of the Delos data yet. That's why he needs Dolores so bad. Her pearl holds the key/code to wherever she beamed the data in the season two finale.

Got it. That helps. Thought I was missing some big connection.