Loved episode one, enjoyed the new direction things were headed in. I'm a big fan of season one vs two and episode two was just more of what I didn't care for in season two. Reality vs simulation, freedom vs imprisonment, etc. Just too many layers. I felt like I was being incepted. Though I did like the GOT easter egg with the dragon, benioff and weiss. Second cameo of theirs I know of, the first was their spot on It's Always Sunny, when the gang goes to a waterpark.

Max Power said:

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Loved episode one, enjoyed the new direction things were headed in. I'm a big fan of season one vs two and episode two was just more of what I didn't care for in season two. Reality vs simulation, freedom vs imprisonment, etc. Just too many layers. I felt like I was being incepted. Though I did like the GOT easter egg with the dragon, benioff and weiss. Second cameo of theirs I know of, the first was their spot on It's Always Sunny, when the gang goes to a waterpark.

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Yep, this is where I'm at, too. I'll continue to watch but I rolled my eyes so hard when Maeve realized she was in a simulation

Yeah, her realizing she was in a simulation meant only to find the location of the hidden world... It just seemed like something this show was better than if that makes any sense.

Teddy Perkins said:

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Hopefully this can answer some questions.

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So good.

How did Maeve freeze the simulation? What caused it to freeze?

mavsfan4ever said:

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How did Maeve freeze the simulation? What caused it to freeze?

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She's "overloaded the computers" with a math problem that required imaginary numbers and "every character" having a map when the script only expected one map.

I'll say it again -- this show has proven it's better than that.

Does the simulation need each character to have the map in case something random happens that makes a different soldier the traitor (knowing that only one map will ever be pulled out per simulation loop), or is it something that Maeve did?

It didn't dive that deep into it. Simply implied that because there was more than one character that had the map (combined with some of the simulated staff having to solve imaginary math equations) that the system grinded to a halt.

Mave stuck maps in every characters pocket when in the simulated operations room.

What do you mean by the show is better than that?

bobinator said:

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What do you mean by the show is better than that?

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I mean the show has for the most part held itself to a pretty high standard when it comes to the "tech" behind things. Now, sometimes we get bogged down in mumbo-jumbo to move the plot along, but there's never been any indication that what these "worlds" are able to accomplish is anything less than absolutely stunning computing resources. The whole idea from Day 1 of the show is just how refined these systems are (so when a bug shows up it's a major deal).

But Maeve grinds it to a halt with an imaginary number math problem and sticking multiple maps into a scene. That's like something a 2nd year computer science major runs into.

Just seemed a pretty amateurish "solution" for this show.

Yeah, I thought that was kind of bad too. Then you can add to that the use of a simulated tablet to hack into the systems in the real world.

john32f said:

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Her way to shutdown the system was a little cheesy and contrived unless Serac intended for her to find that as the way out.

I viewed the whole simulation as a test to see if Maeve was as resourceful as Serac hoped. So would make sense that there would be backdoors in place to enable her to 1) identify she's in a simulation and 2) get out. When Serac finally meets it, it's clear he's in complete control of the situation. Nothing Maeve has done in the episode was unplanned for. He wanted her to escape.

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This is how I felt about it.

If that ends up the way they go with it then I'd be OK with that.

john32f said:

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Her way to shutdown the system was a little cheesy and contrived unless Serac intended for her to find that as the way out.

I viewed the whole simulation as a test to see if Maeve was as resourceful as Serac hoped. So would make sense that there would be backdoors in place to enable her to 1) identify she's in a simulation and 2) get out. When Serac finally meets it, it's clear he's in complete control of the situation. Nothing Maeve has done in the episode was unplanned for. He wanted her to escape.

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I disagree. Serac needs the coordinates to The Valley Beyond. The entire simulation was created to obtain the coordinates and for no other purpose. However, I'm betting that once Maeve figured out that it was a simulation, Serac then let her continue, in order to gauge her resourcefulness. In other words, upon Maeve realizing that it was a simulation, I could imagine a technician in the real world reaching for the kill switch, only to have Serac go, "Wait! Let's see if she can figure her way out of this." That kind of scenario.

Proposition Joe said:

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bobinator said:

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What do you mean by the show is better than that?

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I mean the show has for the most part held itself to a pretty high standard when it comes to the "tech" behind things. Now, sometimes we get bogged down in mumbo-jumbo to move the plot along, but there's never been any indication that what these "worlds" are able to accomplish is anything less than absolutely stunning computing resources. The whole idea from Day 1 of the show is just how refined these systems are (so when a bug shows up it's a major deal).

But Maeve grinds it to a halt with an imaginary number math problem and sticking multiple maps into a scene. That's like something a 2nd year computer science major runs into.

Just seemed a pretty amateurish "solution" for this show.

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They alluded to this with Arnold and his body guard, in that West World is losing money and is getting the bottom of the barrel with talent. As such, they aren't the best programmers.

That might have some to do with it. It was a bit cheesy, but I was surprised and thought it was an enjoyable episode. Not hard for her to figure out, but her reaction seemed to give that away. Like "come on guys, is this the best you've got?"

Exactly. Maeve even straight up says in this episode that humans are lazy and then makes a whole thing of pointing out that the programmers basically just copied and pasted code. It wasn't unbelievable to me at all that the system would crash like that. Personally, I thought it was executed cleverly as a plot point by the writers and as a strategy by Maeve.

We have to suspend disbelief in every show, especially ones set in the future.

I think people have an issue with the simulation crashing because we have been shown systems that far exceed our current technology throughout the show. They have proven to be able to handle extremely complex and random situations.

Then all of a sudden asking the square root of negative one crashes this highly advanced simulation. So a lot of people are sitting there thinking about how the TI89 calculator they got in 7th grade could handle imaginary numbers. Why can't this simulation?

Basically it feels like they dumbed down the environment around Maeve in order to make her look like an unstoppable badass. The power creep with Maeve has always been a bit much for me.

At the end of the day these kinds of things are probably necessary to have a cool scene or scenario play out on screen. It's not that big of a deal, but I can understand why people aren't satisfied by the one line about lazy coding being a sufficient explanation.

It just feels like the world that they established has been able to handle much more complex situations with ease.

One of the running themes from the very start of the show was that people underestimated the hosts.

Which brings up another good point: theme trumps all. Especially when it comes to the Nolans, who are masters at weaving it, and know that even logic is sometimes expendable if means honoring theme above all.

That doesn't change that it felt really hokey.

Brian Earl Spilner said:

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Another good one from Alt Shift X. He did get into the Biblical ideas this time... also pointed out a few little Easter eggs that Screen Crush didn't point out.

Our varying thoughts on episode two aside, I'm definitely excited to get back to Dolores/Caleb, the real world, and more of a S3 E1 vibe tomorrow. IMO, that's the meat of the show, and what I'm most excited about.

Speaking of, seeing as both Maeve and Bernard have now left the park, I wonder if we'll return there at all again this season? Personally, I'm completely fine setting the rest of the season in the real world and then returning to the park in some capacity next season. Curious to see if/how they hit pause on that side of things for an extended period of time.

Yes I agree with you there. E1 was masterful and has me really excited about the season.

TCTTS said:

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john32f said:

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Her way to shutdown the system was a little cheesy and contrived unless Serac intended for her to find that as the way out.

I viewed the whole simulation as a test to see if Maeve was as resourceful as Serac hoped. So would make sense that there would be backdoors in place to enable her to 1) identify she's in a simulation and 2) get out. When Serac finally meets it, it's clear he's in complete control of the situation. Nothing Maeve has done in the episode was unplanned for. He wanted her to escape.

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I disagree. Serac needs the coordinates to The Valley Beyond. The entire simulation was created to obtain the coordinates and for no other purpose. However, I'm betting that once Maeve figured out that it was a simulation, Serac then let her continue, in order to gauge her resourcefulness. In other words, upon Maeve realizing that it was a simulation, I could imagine a technician in the real world reaching for the kill switch, only to have Serac go, "Wait! Let's see if she can figure her way out of this." That kind of scenario.

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Does he need the coordinates to the forge or did he just want Maeve to think that was his plausible motivation? Didn't want the test to be too obvious.

This is a handy resource if you're having trouble remembering the timing of certain events. Found on reddit.

Westworld Interactive Timeline

john32f said:

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TCTTS said:

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john32f said:

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Her way to shutdown the system was a little cheesy and contrived unless Serac intended for her to find that as the way out.

I viewed the whole simulation as a test to see if Maeve was as resourceful as Serac hoped. So would make sense that there would be backdoors in place to enable her to 1) identify she's in a simulation and 2) get out. When Serac finally meets it, it's clear he's in complete control of the situation. Nothing Maeve has done in the episode was unplanned for. He wanted her to escape.

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I disagree. Serac needs the coordinates to The Valley Beyond. The entire simulation was created to obtain the coordinates and for no other purpose. However, I'm betting that once Maeve figured out that it was a simulation, Serac then let her continue, in order to gauge her resourcefulness. In other words, upon Maeve realizing that it was a simulation, I could imagine a technician in the real world reaching for the kill switch, only to have Serac go, "Wait! Let's see if she can figure her way out of this." That kind of scenario.

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Does he need the coordinates to the forge or did he just want Maeve to think that was his plausible motivation? Didn't want the test to be too obvious.

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I don't think that Serac wanting the coordinates is a red herring. This season needs a McGuffin, just like the past two seasons, and if they back track on that after the fact, it'd feel a little weird. Besides, in that final scene, if it had been a red herring, I think Serac would have likely told Maeve as much then and there. In fact, I'm betting that's what Serac uses to convince Maeve to go after Dolores. Dolores has the coordinates to The Valley Beyond. And if you kill Dolores, I'll let you join your daughter there. - maybe something along those lines.

Teddy Perkins said:

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This is a handy resource if you're having trouble remembering the timing of certain events. Found on reddit.

Westworld Interactive Timeline

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That's really cool and incredibly well done.

I've been watching both series for years, and somehow it just hit me that James Delos is Jacob Snell. (Ozark)

Mind blown.

Brian Earl Spilner said:

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I've been watching both series for years, and somehow it just hit me that James Delos is Jacob Snell. (Ozark)

Mind blown.

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He was also this guy from Braveheart:

Alright so... it's Teddy inside Charlotte, right? Sorry if this has already been theorized and it's common knowledge around here.