AggieDem said:

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Not really the movie itself, but I feel like Rian Johnson has been smug about the story. "This is how it is. Deal with it."

Maybe that's just my impression. And full disclosure on my feelings on TLJ, I didn't hate it. It's not my favorite, but I have been coming around on it since the first time I saw it. But after seeing IW, I'm more disappointed that TLJ went the way it did. It had a lot of potential to leave everyone wanting more and it just fell flat. Infinity War left me feeling the exact opposite.

(I'm having a hard time articulating exactly what I mean. Sorry.)

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Which makes you wonder WTF Disney (who owns both) can make one Franchise (10+ movies) so freaking awesome, and TLJ suck so much.

Disney needs to fire everyone (starting with Kathleen Kennedy) from SW productions, wait until Marvel movies are done, the fire up the SW franchise again with the same people from Marvel in charge. Including re-booting TLJ and removing all copies of the original from 'official' existence.

EDIT: Sorry, did not mean to derail....

People who hate TLJ this much weird me the hell out. I wasn't a huge fan, but on no planet does it deserve this kind of vitriol.

TCTTS said:

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People who hate TLJ this much weird me the hell out. I wasn't a huge fan, but on no planet does it deserve this kind of vitriol.

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Star Wars meganerds are weird.

A big problem with Star Wars is that its a fairly simple story that's been told a million times before. Its your stereotypical fantasy story set in a sci-fi setting and was fine at just 3 movies. Expanded to 9 movies, and it becomes redundant.

ScottH_01 said:

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TCTTS said:

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Besides, Marvel and Star Wars feel like very different beasts, and I don't know that Feige & co would hit the home run with SW that they have with Marvel.

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The biggest thing that has made the Marvel movies work, and IW successful, has been patience.

DC hasn't had that, and is failing/failed.

SW and Kennedy have lacked that to a degree, and while they're not doing poorly, what TLJ tried to do would've been much more successful with a half decade of new movies to build to it. They let Rian try to use the base of the older movies to mix everything up, instead of establishing their own base that was more current and solid.

Sorry for the derail...

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DC's cinematic universe would have been so much better if Batman had actually killed Superman, and it'd stuck. Superman is too powerful to be a useful dramatic character, and the consequences of that original sin hanging over the DCEU would have been fascinating to explore.

so if Deadpool had been in IW, you think he'd have asked Thanos to use the reality stone to create a reality where the DCU didn't suck?

TCTTS said:

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People who hate TLJ this much weird me the hell out. I wasn't a huge fan, but on no planet does it deserve this kind of vitriol.

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I think it boils down to people having so much love for the original trilogy and original characters and actors (Ford, Hamill, Fisher) and then seeing all of the potential of the supposed return to those characters and that greatness flushed down the drain by what Johnson decided to do in TLJ.

I mean, imagine how bad it would be if we waited ten years to see all the Avengers team up to fight Thanos and then the director threw in a new and superfluous character named Rose who claimed in the midst of the final battle that we shouldn't fight against what we hate but fight for what we love. Uggh.

And that's just the Marvel Universe. The Star Wars universe is that magnified by 1000. You know that, you're in the movie business. People take that **** seriously.

FL_Ag1998 said:

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TCTTS said:

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People who hate TLJ this much weird me the hell out. I wasn't a huge fan, but on no planet does it deserve this kind of vitriol.

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I think it boils down to people having so much love for the original trilogy and original characters and actors (Ford, Hamill, Fisher) and then seeing all of the potential of the supposed return to those characters and that greatness flushed down the drain by what Johnson decided to do in TLJ.

I mean, imagine how bad it would be if we waited ten years to see all the Avengers team up to fight Thanos and then the director threw in a new and superfluous character named Rose who claimed in the midst of the final battle that we shouldn't fight against what we hate but fight for what we love. Uggh.

And that's just the Marvel Universe. The Star Wars universe is that magnified by 1000. You know that, you're in the movie business. People take that **** seriously.

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Weren't you complaining about people talking about Star Wars like a page or two back?

I know if Iron Man went out like Luke I'd be pissed, especially if I waited 30+ years and a reboot to see him let loose

All fine until the point Luke gives up and literally fades away. No matter how much he's trying to get away, when people need him Tony puts on the suit and starts kicking ass

TCTTS said:

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People who hate TLJ this much weird me the hell out. I wasn't a huge fan, but on no planet does it deserve this kind of vitriol.

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There are countless numbers on this site who harbor at least this much vitriol for The Phantom Menace, Attack of the Clones, and Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull. Do those folks also wired you out?

Cinco Ranch Aggie said:

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TCTTS said:

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People who hate TLJ this much weird me the hell out. I wasn't a huge fan, but on no planet does it deserve this kind of vitriol.

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There are countless numbers on this site who harbor at least this much vitriol for The Phantom Menace, Attack of the Clones, and Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull. Do those folks also wired you out?

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The prequels are objectively sh*tty movies from a content, lazy (at the time) director who would have rather been doing anything else. There is zero artistry to those movies and it's obvious how little Lucas cared, especially when you see some of the behind the scenes footage and hear some of the behind the scenes stories. Never mind the fact that it was his way or the highway, there was no larger story group, and he consulted basically no one in the creation of those stories.

So, no, the people who harbor vitriol for those movies - myself included - do not weird me out.

The difference with TLJ is that, at least on a technical level, it IS a well-made movie from someone who deeply cares. I and many others may not agree with the decisions that were made, but those decisions were not only signed off on by a much larger contingent (who also deeply love the material), but they were decisions made with heart and enthusiasm and I just can't fault someone that much for trying as hard as Johnson did to do something great and different.

To bring this around to Marvel, the reason you hardly ever see anyone sh*ting on even the "bad" MCU movies is that it's obvious that even they were made with heart and care, they just missed the mark for whatever reasons. It's clear to almost everyone that even the least popular of the bunch are noble efforts, and thus you hardly every see Marvel fans expressing this insane kind of hate.

And I think it should be no different with Johnson.

Vitriol on the level referenced in this thread should be reserved for the filmmakers who clearly do not have their heads or hearts in the game. It's obviously fine to dislike their efforts, but the part that creeps me out is still hating something or someone THAT MUCH despite the good intentions of a hardworking filmmaker.

Are we talking about infinity wars.... or Star Wars.... I'm confused...

TCTTS said:

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Besides, Marvel and Star Wars feel like very different beasts, and I don't know that Feige & co would hit the home run with SW that they have with Marvel.

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I will say, I think Star Wars tried to set up the same kind of system as marvel and it seems like either they chose poorly or Feige is one of the few people in the world capable of doing this.

Her choices have been pretty lacking, to say the least. Marvel seems to be committed to an overarching vision, and every movie plays to it.
While Star Wars has chosen great directors and actors, they seemed to make a huge misstep with Johnson in a different regard. He clearly did not care to build upon the story that Abrams was crafting, and now Abrams is back again for the 3rd installment..the whole thing is just bizarre.

Can we stay on topic and leave TLJ off this thread? I know it's been out a long time, but I still haven't seen it and don't need to read up on it here. Thanks

dreyOO said:

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Can we stay on topic and leave TLJ off this thread? I know it's been out a long time, but I still haven't seen it and don't need to read up on it here. Thanks

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He could be the guy in the chair

Where do you come up with the **** you say?

He's a crazy person

The Debt said:

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jackie childs said:

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OnlyForNow said:

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That's why he has to die.

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i agree, at least for the Tony we now have.

but, that could all change. for instance, if Pepper gets pregnant, i could see Tony trying to find ways to protect humanity while not personally fighting the battles. he could continue funding the "new" avengers, he could pass the iron man torch to someone else, etc.

i like the idea of having RDJ available for future cameos in spidey movies or the next team-up movies.

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Hollywood wont have a natalist film where an action based star abandons the action to become an ideal father. That would be a bit too prolife.

Now! If it were revealed that pepper was pregnant but thanos dusted Tony Jr, then everyone is happy. You have a prolife message (Tony reversing the mass death so his son could live), and you have a film that had a no-medical-consequence abortion onscreen....everyone is represented.

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That was maybe the most random interjection I've seen on a thread ever.