*** WATCHMEN (HBO) ***

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TCTTS
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AG
Discussion about this potential take on the material started to break out in the TRUE DETECTIVE (SEASON 3) thread, so I figured something like this was ripe for it's own thread. With HBO officially discussing a few tidbits yesterday at TCA, here's everything we know so far (and if I've left anything out, please feel free to add/correct)...

- HBO has ordered a number of episode scripts and has committed to shooting the pilot in 2018. The assumption is that this would be a mini-series and not last multiple seasons, but that has not yet been confirmed either way. If I had to guess I'd say eight-part mini-series, or, if they want to remain truly faithful to the source material, a twelve-part mini-series.

- Once HBO sees the pilot, they'll either commit to filming the rest of the episodes or not, as is their standard operating procedure. So if the show is greenlit, and I can't imagine it won't be, expect it to likely air at some point in the second half of 2019 or later.

- Damon Lindelof (Lost, The Leftovers) is showrunning / writing (along with a team of writers). We know that at least the pilot script is complete, and it sounds like the writing team is much further along than that.

- It is unknown whether it will again take place in the '80s, same as the comic/movie, or if this will be an updated, modernized take to help separate it from the movie.

- With the pilot shooting this year, casting will likely begin soon.

So... who do you want to see in these roles? Does the 2009 movie dampen your interest/enthusiasm at all? Considering it might be tough to achieve a more faithful adoption than Snyder's version, would you like to see a modernized take? Or did Snyder leave out just enough - and are there certain threads that can be expanded enough - that you'd like to see another faithful '80s adaptation, one with more time to breathe?

I love so much of Snyder's version - in particular the (in my opinion) much better ending they came up with - but some of the casting / characters are a bit off in places. Namely, Malin Akerman as Silk Spectre and Matthew Goode as Ozymandias. I think Lindelof can potentially knock this out of the park, but I would definitely like to see something fairly different from Snyder's version, just for the sake of freshness. So I'm leaning toward a modernized take (something Warner Bros. considered for the movie and even commissioned a script for), but it's hard to deny the appeal of the grungy, '80s setting of the original. Will definitely be interested to see what they come up with either way...
Fenrir
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How does Lindelof keep getting work? I really don't understand how people keep giving him money given his track record. Maybe that Phineas and Ferb episode he did was spectacular...
TCTTS
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AG
I take it you didn't watch The Leftovers? Seasons two and three were not only critically acclaimed, but some of the best television I've ever seen. And sure, Lost sputtered toward the end, but to do what he did with that show across six, network-length seasons is pretty incredible. That, and it IS one of the most popular shows in television history. Star Trek Into Darkness and Cowboys vs. Aliens are definitely notches against him, as is Prometheus (even though it has come to light that that was likely more Ridley Scott's fault than anyone else's), but The Leftovers was so good that Lindelof is at least back in my good graces, and many other peoples' as well. I really do think he could do some amazing things with this.
Sex Panther
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Not sure if he would be attainable, but the idea of Tom Cruise as Ozymandias has been floated a bunch and I think that would be fantastic.

I wonder what kind of cast they can get for this. Will it be no names? Mid-level stars? Or since its HBO will they be able to get some A-listers?
TCTTS
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I bet they're able to land an A-lister or two, as that's obviously becoming more and more common (from True Detective to Big Little Lies). Especially with it likely being a limited thing and not an on-going series. And yes, Cruise would be the get of all gets. He'd be AMAZING in this.
TCTTS
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Sex Panther
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Did anyone ready the Before Watchmen comics that came out a year or two ago? Are they worth looking into?
Whos Juan
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TCTTS said:

I love so much of Snyder's version - in particular the (in my opinion) much better ending they came up with - but some of the casting / characters are a bit off in places. Namely, Malin Akerman as Silk Spectre and Matthew Goode as Ozymandias. I think Lindelof can potentially knock this out of the park, but I would definitely like to see something fairly different from Snyder's version, just for the sake of freshness. So I'm leaning toward a modernized take (something Warner Bros. considered for the movie and even commissioned a script for), but it's hard to deny the appeal of the grungy, '80s setting of the original. Will definitely be interested to see what they come up with either way...
I think Watchmen is Snyder's best work. He nailed the look and feel of the graphic novel and some of the casting, namely Jackie Earle Haley and Jeffrey Dean Morgan, were perfect for their roles. Even the guy playing Hollis Mason was fantastic. The different ending was much better than the book and he did as good of a job as possible jumping from different points of time to expand the characters' backstory, given the time allowed for a movie.

*edit - Oh, and the opening title sequence set to The Times They Are a Changin' is one of my favorites.*

That said, it was really anchored down by some other casting choices and the fact that, honestly, the story itself is just a tough sell at the box office. It's too dark and filthy to really promote as a superhero movie, which in itself would be misleading. I, personally, love characters that aren't absolute good or evil. "Good guys" who still do abhorrent things and "bad guys" who have goals that have merit. TV thrives off of these characters. Stuff like that can survive as a television series because you can give a viewer a mental break after each episode, but you're not going to get an average movie goer to rave about it after watching the protagonists, and I use that term loosely, fail and watch the evil genius succeed in a 2.5 hour tale of futility.

I think HBO can really knock this out of the park if done correctly. I, for one, am excited about this project.
Clavell
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Did people like the movie? Maybe because didn't know anything about the characters before, but just didn't think much of them or the movie plot.
MW03
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Jeffrey Dean Morgan was so damn perfect as The Comedian that it made the whole movie. As was the ever-hot Carla Gugino. I liked it quite a bit, but I agree 100% that Matthew Goode was a miss. I didn't mind Akerman, actually, or Patrick Wilson.

I don't know how the series could be different, really. I liked the dark and dreary "average super man" feel of Snyder's version so much. It's almost like it's a 2nd cousin twice removed to The Incredibles in a weird way. Especially with the Nite Owl character.

Quinn
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I have always been intrigued by the comic and the movie, but haven't read or watched either. Do y'all think both of them are worth checking out before the show comes out? LOST and The Leftovers are two of my top 5 favorite shows all time, so I will definitely be watching this.
jeffk
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I'd definitely read the comic. It's not long and widely regarded as one of the best ever. You can probably find it for a few bucks used online or at a book store.
dragonslayer
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Im hoping whatever they do its great and good enough that HBO becomes a place to produce DC Comics tv series like they should be produced with no restriction to content

Just like Netflix is to Marvel Comics tv series (daredevil, punisher, luck cage, etc...)
Al Bula
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I am all for this show. Lots of people hated the movie, and I would guess it is because they expected something along the lines of Avengers or X-Men. Don't get me wrong, I loved X-Men once upon a time but it became childish to me.

I want to see the comic frame story incorporated more. Not sure who should be cast as I don't pay attention to up and coming actors and actresses.

The ending from the comic was not the same as the 2009 movie, and that was my real only gripe about it. The new ending worked for movie too.

Malin Akerman and Carla Gugino are both incredibly hot, but it didn't work to cast them as mother and daughter. They are only 7 years apart in age.

Dr. Manhattan was perfect. Will be hard to top Billy Crudup, but I am betting HBO will make Dr. Manhattan look pretty awesome.

Watchmen is great is because it breaks down the comic book archetypes.
israeliag
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I'm ready for a modern take. The film was near perfect for me and I wouldn't mind showing what it is like to have heroes today - and who would watch over them.

Definitely could have Dr Manhattan have successfully end both Afghan and Iraq wars with Bush getting third/fourth term presidency, instead of Vietnam and Nixon, respectively.

A first Watchmen group banding together during the civil rights movement would also work really well.
TCTTS
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Great points/parallels. Could be super cool modernized, and that's definitely where I'm leaning.
Fenrir
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RPM said:

I am all for this show. Lots of people hated the movie, and I would guess it is because they expected something along the lines of Avengers or X-Men. Don't get me wrong, I loved X-Men once upon a time but it became childish to me.

I want to see the comic frame story incorporated more. Not sure who should be cast as I don't pay attention to up and coming actors and actresses.

The ending from the comic was not the same as the 2009 movie, and that was my real only gripe about it. The new ending worked for movie too.

Malin Akerman and Carla Gugino are both incredibly hot, but it didn't work to cast them as mother and daughter. They are only 7 years apart in age.

Dr. Manhattan was perfect. Will be hard to top Billy Crudup, but I am betting HBO will make Dr. Manhattan look pretty awesome.

Watchmen is great is because it breaks down the comic book archetypes.
The comic ending is just bananas though, I like the movie ending much better. The pacing felt off to me, that was about the only major issue I had with the movie.
Fenrir
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TCTTS said:

I take it you didn't watch The Leftovers? Seasons two and three were not only critically acclaimed, but some of the best television I've ever seen. And sure, Lost sputtered toward the end, but to do what he did with that show across six, network-length seasons is pretty incredible. That, and it IS one of the most popular shows in television history. Star Trek Into Darkness and Cowboys vs. Aliens are definitely notches against him, as is Prometheus (even though it has come to light that that was likely more Ridley Scott's fault than anyone else's), but The Leftovers was so good that Lindelof is at least back in my good graces, and many other peoples' as well. I really do think he could do some amazing things with this.
Started a couple of episodes when I had an HBO sub last year for GoT. Wasn't blown away right away enough to keep the sub when GoT season finale came and went. I may give it a shot one of these days if it ends up on Prime or Netflix or something but I'm probably not going to subscribe just for it.
Jim01
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I really enjoyed the movie (own it on Blu-ray).

I read the comic after the movie and like TCTTS couldn't believe the ending. I mean imagine if people were as critical of that comic as the people over in The Ladt Jedi thread. Exploding whales for Christ's sake!!! One of the more ridiculous endings ever. The film was very wise to change it.
SeattleAgJr
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comic ending was "fine" for its time, but is/was still dumb.

The movie ending is much better.

That said, yes, the series could better cover "more" of the comic, as well as the Pirate back story, but really would not be add much for the viewer.

I think this is a bad idea and unneeded.

It is likely to be beautiful and well acted. It is just unnecessary at this point.
amercer
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The movie was great, but I feel like you had to have lived through the Cold War early 80s to really appreciate the gloom and foreboding in the story.

I'd like to see it modernized, although 80s nostalgia is at a bit of a peak now. Also, I will assume HBO goes all in on the giant blue dong.
TCTTS
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Quote:

I think this is a bad idea and unneeded.

It is likely to be beautiful and well acted. It is just unnecessary at this point.

Re: the unneeded / unnecessary claim, I'm not so sure. The more I think about it, a lot has obviously changed since 2009, when the movie came out, in terms of the political climate, social movements, etc., and I'd be incredibly curious to see this story applied to our modern world view. Because in many ways things are obviously different from the '80s as well, but also a ton of parallels can be drawn in new and interesting ways. I'm not saying trade out Trump for Nixon or anything like that, but there are a ton of opportunities in going down that path, and also in just how prevalent superheroes in cinema/television have become compared to even 2009 and the '80s. There could be some pertinent commentary / parallels drawn on just how much we rely on them in modern pop culture as well.
Sapper Redux
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I see no one has admitted to being excited for more Dr. Manhattan dong!
SeattleAgJr
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TCTTS said:


Quote:

I think this is a bad idea and unneeded.

It is likely to be beautiful and well acted. It is just unnecessary at this point.

Re: the unneeded / unnecessary claim, I'm not so sure. The more I think about it, a lot has obviously changed since 2009, when the movie came out, in terms of the political climate, social movements, etc., and I'd be incredibly curious to see this story applied to our modern world view. Because in many ways things are obviously different from the '80s as well, but also a ton of parallels can be drawn in new and interesting ways. I'm not saying trade out Trump for Nixon or anything like that, but there are a ton of opportunities in going down that path, and also in just how prevalent superheroes in cinema/television have become compared to even 2009 and the '80s. There could be some pertinent commentary / parallels drawn on just how much we rely on them in modern pop culture as well.
I get that, but there is not much new they can add to the story that was not already covered by the movie.

Is it going to be a period piece as well, or are they going to set it in contemporary times.
The story would be much different contemporary, due to the Internet, cell phones, etc., so I assume it will still be a period piece.

As for filtering it through today's lense, I am not too thrilled by that. Yes, Moore is a hardcore lib, and that shows in his writings, I am not thrilled by other modern liberal sensibilities being interjected into this.

Lindelof did an incredible job with Leftovers. That show should not have worked, especially after the first season, so he ahs a LOT of clout right now in my book, but this is something of a vanity project that can very easily disappoint depending on how they go with it.
Forum Troll
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Sex Panther said:

Did anyone ready the Before Watchmen comics that came out a year or two ago? Are they worth looking into?
From what I've read on Reddit its not. Doomsday Clock, the currently in production sequel from Geoff Johns, is apparently very good. I've got the first 2 issues but haven't caught up yet on some reading prior.
Sapper Redux
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Forum Troll said:

Sex Panther said:

Did anyone ready the Before Watchmen comics that came out a year or two ago? Are they worth looking into?
From what I've read on Reddit its not. Doomsday Clock, the currently in production sequel from Geoff Johns, is apparently very good. I've got the first 2 issues but haven't caught up yet on some reading prior.


Isn't the Watchmen universe now part of the main DC universe?
SeattleAgJr
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Dr. Watson said:

Forum Troll said:

Sex Panther said:

Did anyone ready the Before Watchmen comics that came out a year or two ago? Are they worth looking into?
From what I've read on Reddit its not. Doomsday Clock, the currently in production sequel from Geoff Johns, is apparently very good. I've got the first 2 issues but haven't caught up yet on some reading prior.


Isn't the Watchmen universe now part of the main DC universe?
Yes. All of the main 6 are back (for those that were dead) and now in Earth 1, or whatever it is called these days.
And Ozy seems to be repeating himself with the same intentions.
John Matrix
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AG
Watchmen is not only one of the best comics ever written, it may be one of the best pieces of literature ever written. Time Magazine famously listed it as one of the best hundred novels of the 29th century at one point. The movie has its issues, but it's about as good as an adaption as you could ask for in a film. This, like A Song of Ice and Fire, is made for prestige TV.

More importantly though it is coming st the perfect time for examining the superhero genre in film. The comic is a brilliant deconstruction of comic tropes at the time because the medium had finally aged to the point where everyone was familiar with the themes inherent in them. In terms of film, we've had about 15 years of comic book movies and it's about time for that deconstruction,
SeattleAgJr
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John Matrix said:

Watchmen is not only one of the best comics ever written, it may be one of the best pieces of literature ever written. Time Magazine famously listed it as one of the best hundred novels of the 29th century at one point.
I guess since you are writing from the 30th century, this must be true....
Bruce Almighty
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Time magazine calling Watchmen one of the 100 greatest novels of all time is just dumb (and I'm a comic book fan).
Liquid Wrench
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Quote:

The comic ending is just bananas though, I like the movie ending much better.
I was expecting the movie to go with a staged alien invasion, which probably would have helped the film's popularity in giving it more sci-fi appeal. It would also have been consistent with the times of the original publishing, when Reagan had given a speech to the UN throwing out the idea that countries of the world would unite and end the cold war if we faced an external threat. The movie's ending worked though in keeping "John out there watching."

Never read any of the newer comics, but the movie left open a crazy prospect of wondering how people will behave knowing this real "god" was watching from Mars or whatever, so there are plenty of directions for a new series to go in.
TCTTS
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AG

Quote:

Never read any of the newer comics, but the movie left open a crazy prospect of wondering how people will behave knowing this real "god" was watching from Mars or whatever, so there are plenty of directions for a new series to go in.

Not a bad idea. Never thought of that. This series very well could retell the '80s stuff via flashbacks but also have a modern day main plotline in which the graphic novel storyline happened 30 years prior. Indeed, so many directions they could go...
Al Bula
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Yeah, Watchmen is great for a comic book series. It's not a great piece of literature though.
Liquid Wrench
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Alan Moore isn't exactly a publicity hound; I think it's safe to say that the literary hype comes from journalists wanting to sound cultured and relevant and writing their own attitudes into his work. There's a reason they celebrate The Watchmen and not, say, The Killing Joke.
TCTTS
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AG
 
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