veryfuller said:
MBAR said:
veryfuller said:
In Spider-Man, almost all the cameos and characters brought in had a layer they added to Peter Parker's main story, even if it was only "they deserve to live".
In DS 2, the only cameo that could be argued that they added to anyone's story, IMO, was Professor X. So it was just a bunch of characters there to have a fight and show how powerful Wanda was without having to lose any characters in the main universe.
Ok but why is that a bad reason to have those characters here? I mean the only reason for lots of enemies showing up in Spiderman is as an excuse to bring in the other Spiderman actors to be extreme fan service. And people loved it for that. And that's all fine, but the last Spider Man film isn't some ground breaking story or take but rather just a giant nostalgia bomb. Yet in this film, it really seems like to me that people are just upset the powerful people they wanted to see have a big roll were just canon fodder and label it as "fan service" in this case because they aren't happy with how they were used.
People don't have to like either one of the uses, but people not liking one and liking the other doesn't change that they are both fan service. This is honestly the first time we've gotten to see Wanda not limited by some bull**** that the MCU needed in order to let others shine. That's a very real reason to use this whole multiverse aspect that they're heavily leaning into in this phase. Honestly it makes a lot more sense than Peter wanting to go to MIT.
I feel like you didn't read my first sentence.
I 100% expected Spiderman to be just lots of characters showing up for fan service, but was surprised by how they contributed to the character arc of Peter Parker. One of the villains killed May. Doc Oc got to be redeemed on the other side of Spider-Man II. The two visiting spider-men came in as emotional support for Peter, not just extra good guys to fight bad guys and have cool wink wink moments. We got those too, but it was more than that.
Fan service isn't bad, I just personally prefer it to be in service of the story. These characters were just dropped in and didn't really have a meaningful impact on the story at all, they were just famous actors or powerful superheroes that added to a body count just to show how powerful Wanda is, but without really raising any true stakes for the characters we were following. And it was all basically wink wink and no substance.
Thats is the difference between the movies, IMO. And honestly I couldn't care less who cameo-ed or showed up in this movie. I'm just annoyed they had all the cameos just to make a fight I was 0% invested in.
I disagree with this though. Doc Oc and Green Goblin are definitely more important to the plot than all other cameos. Lizard and Sandman are pretty meh, and honestly so is Electro but Jamie Foxx is a much better actor so he is more of an on screen presence. But as parts of the plot? They're generic as hell. Andrew Garfield is practically in the movie to do nothing more than gives fan closure on his movie. Toby reminds Peter of humanity, but its not like only he could do this. Its arguable that it would have been better for Ned or MJ to have done this, quite frankly.
In MoM, Cpt Marvel, Black Bolt, and Reed Richards do nothing but provide noteworthy foils. But Christine, Mordo, and Xavier are all integral to the plot and move it forwards. So I don't understand if you're going to give Doc Oc and GG the same credit, why do you deny it here? You keep saying "JUST to show how powerful Wanda is" as if that's not an important element of the story! How is it not important to know that Wanda is so powerful that she can just demolish this amazingly powerful superhero collective?
As for stakes, its a comic book movie. There are no real stakes. Did anyone actually expect Wanda was going to win here? Did anyone think America was going to die? Or that the multiverse was going to come crashing down? The highest stakes we get is someone like Aunt May dying (in the most cliche Spiderman way possible) which really doesn't move the needle for me in that regard. If thats important to others, fair enough, but for me thats a non factor.
EDIT: I do think that Spiderman has a better story than MoM. MoM is a pretty light on plot, IMO. I just disagree it has anything to do with the cameos in either movie.