jeffk said:

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Just got out. I have a ton of thoughts. First is that I'm not sure if I liked it or not.

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Yes, I'm QTing myself, it's fine, this is the multiverse, there's no rules. I think I liked it, but I didn't really enjoy it, if that makes sense. Like it felt like a long What If? episode, which I liked, but the further I got into the movie, the more questions I had about what we were really learning or how is this progressing the narrative in the MCU.

Wanda being evil wasn't a huge stretch for me. But her methods and her end goal were sort of misaligned and no one seemed to point that out to her in the film. She wanted to be with them, but never lose them again. So basically wanted a realized version of her memory. Which isn't the same as really loving or living with someone. Basically, the story needed Vision around to engage more philosophically.

Point of order: we're calling White Vision "Cataract" now. I'll hear no arguments to the contrary.

The Illuminati were cool. They were obviously just there as a fan service and then a demo for Scarlet Witch's power. Nothing wrong with it, but it also felt like Raimi had recently binge-watched The Boys or Invincible.

I'm rambling. It was fine. Glad I saw it. No idea if it'll age well or how even it'll fit within the large MCU plan, but I'm glad I saw it.

I also half expected to see our boy Ned at the Kamar Taj in that closing scene.

I did get a good chuckle out of the Illuminati's "we can handle your little witch no problem" line.

Lol, Ok…

TCTTS said:

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bobinator said:

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EXTREMELY similar. I even typed that in there and then deleted it.

We needed either some more WandaVision, or more to start this movie, where we see her continue the slide. A doesn't work, she tries B, B doesn't work, so C, each decision further from who she wants to be but she deems it necessary.

Instead, at the end of WandaVision she's reading a bad book as her kids are screaming "help me" from somewhere and then this starts and she's sending monsters to kill a child. That's a big off screen jump.

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They address her "slide" MULTIPLE times in this movie. By studying The Darkhold (the book with the spells), she essentially became possessed by it. Simply *opening* it - something Strange wouldn't even do - was an invitation for bad news.

So, yes, she had a character arc in WandaVision, for the better, but then made the mistake of using The Darkhold to look for her kids. Once she went down that path, it took hold of her, "possessed" her, and thus we got the evil version of Wanda in this movie.

Had it been a Wanda-centric movie, sure, I could see them showing that "possession"/transition take hold, etc, but seeing as this was Doctor Strange movie, that felt unnecessary. Not to mention, I really liked how they turned it into a twist/surprise instead. That was a great moment when she slipped and called her "America" in front of Strange, before he ever told her America's name. That was such a cool "oh sh*t" moment where you realize something is off and that Wanda is the villain. No way would I have traded that for us actually seeing her make that transition. We got the gist through dialogue and then were off to the races.

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Well said.

To me it's also similar to Hawkeye being possessed by Loki in The Avengers. His abilities were being used to kill people, but he wasn't in control. Maybe a little like Bucky as The Winter Soldier too, and he was labeled as a villain for it like Wanda. It didn't need a lot of explanation.

I didn't think this was a stretch for Wanda. Even in WandaVision, she teased what she was capable of by taking over the soldiers' weapons, holding people hostage in their own minds with no remorse until Vision finally got through to her. She was capable of being cold, The Darkhold magic simply took it to the darkest place...we just don't get see all of that transformation on screen.

jeffk said:

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I did get a good chuckle out of the Illuminati's "we can handle your little witch no problem" line.

Lol, Ok…

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That whole exchange is what I enjoy so much about Dr. Strange. His facial expressions and "No ****, genius" response to what was happening despite the Illuminati's overconfidence was great.

It would be easy to make his character super serious, particularly given Cumberbatch's history, but I'm glad they Strange has some of that 'Tony Stark' sarcasm.

Saw it this morning, really liked it. Evil Wanda is seriously scary. Here are some thoughts about some of the topics going around this thread.

Movie opens with America and a Strange running from the monster. Then we later find out America has met a lot of Stranges. I think we can assume Wanda had been after her for a while. It's not hard to imagine the growing frustration of being unable to capture her pushing Wanda more toward evil. Like TCTTS, I am glad we didn't see any of it because revealing her as the surprise villain was a "holy sh-t" moment that I would not want taken away. By the way, this isn't the first time Marvel has done character transformation off screen. Thor getting fat, Scientist Hulk...even Tony had a bunch of changes between movies.

I really enjoyed the fight with music notes. An excellent representation of the madness in this movie.

I was genuinely amused at the Illuminati version of Captain Marvel calling Strange arrogant, when she had the most arrogant attitude of them all. "We can handle your little witch." Please. I did not think anything could make me prefer the Bri Larson version.

edit to add: I love Elizabeth Olsen and she acted her ass off in this movie. Wanda is a must have character, for me.

redline248 said:

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Then we later find out America has met a lot of Stranges.

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one can never have too much strange.

jeffk said:

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Did we ever get any clue as to how her breaking apart the throne room cave in one universe destroyed the Darkholde in all universes? Did I miss some critical piece of info?

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Standing at the seat of Chthon's power at Mount Wundagore, her blast of chaos magic traveled through every dimension, obliterating every variant of the Darkholde.


that said, the books of magic are not sources of power. Rather, they channel the power of other beings; the Darkhold channels Chthon's chaos and the Book of Vishanti is a conduit for the light magic of the three Vishanti. The conduits may be gone, but the beings who created them and their power are not.

Makes perfect sense to me.

schmendeler said:

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I can't tell if this is legit or bs but it's beautiful bs even so.

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I am THE Marvel comics nerd on this forum.

Have prob read 50K+ issues over the decades, and legally own 30K+ issues (sad I know)

and then digitally I have prob 90+% of everything Marvel comics has ever released.

Friend sent this

So house of harkness is a Disney plus show that is coming soon. When we last see Agatha, Wanda cast a spell on her that turns her back into that Stepford wife esk happy go lucky character. I bet the moment Wanda destroys all the darkholds, that spell is broken, and that's where the series starts off

AMW2010 said:

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So house of harkness is a Disney plus show that is coming soon. When we last see Agatha, Wanda cast a spell on her that turns her back into that Stepford wife esk happy go lucky character. I bet the moment Wanda destroys all the darkholds, that spell is broken, and that's where the series starts off

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