*** DOCTOR STRANGE IN THE MULTIVERSE OF MADNESS *** (Spoilers)

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AgfromHOU
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In reply to c-jags • 7:12p, 6/24/22
AG
It is fair to judge it as bad writing/acting when that is the case. I doubt anyone would argue otherwise.

However, in the case of this movie, there is literally a quick scene with the moms (where they only interlock arms and smile) and Strange telling America that he hopes she finds her moms. Neither mom has a line in the movie. America wears a tiny rainbow pin, but honestly I didn't even notice it until someone pointed it out after the movie.

America's actor is super young and actually does a really good job. I did NOT like the movie, but I found her story arc to be very enjoyable and my favorite part of the movie.

Her powers fit the narrative, so I did not think she was shoehorned in for diversity's sake.
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J. Walter Weatherman
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In reply to fat girlfriend • 8:32p, 6/24/22
fat girlfriend said:
TCTTS said:
fat girlfriend said:
TCTTS said:
fat girlfriend said:
TCTTS said:
you're clearly one of those people who seems to have a problem with gay anything showing up in movies, TV, etc,
That's false. I have a problem with the constant "homosexuality is conducive to human flourishing" proselytizing found regularly in movies and TV. Characterizing that as having a problem with anything gay showing up in movies is both false and uncharitable.

I'm sorry, but if THAT'S what you're getting from this stuff, then you're ACTIVELY looking to be offended, pick a fight, etc. If you watched this movie, and in the brief few seconds a gay couple was on screen, truly thought, "They're clearly trying to show that homosexuality is conducive to human flourishing," I don't know what to tell you. Because it just ain't there, at all. The movie simply *depicted* a gay couple on screen for a few seconds. AT WORST it was pandering, but it was about as innocuous as pandering can be, all things considered. Either way, NOTHING about their appearance said, "Being gay is essential to human flourishing."

It was literally nothing more than a depiction of a loving family being torn apart. No different than the depiction of a loving, heterosexual family being torn apart.

Tell me, do you get this upset when heterosexual families are shown flourishing on screen in the face of divorce, infidelity, and infertility? Because, both biologically and psychologically, none of those things are conducive to human flourishing either. Yet I don't see you in other threads, raising a stink when those kinds of non-conducive behaviors appears in those movies. It's *only* for the gay stuff. I wonder why that is...
I get upset at the normalizing of all harmful behaviors. When Christian parents wouldn't let their kids watch The Love Boat in the 80s, they were mocked. Over time, those who get upset at the normalization of harmful behavior have come to be called "unloving" or face thinly veiled insults that they just hate gay people. I don't see how anyone could deny that movies with a young audience in mind are making a thoughtful decision to promote a value system that normalizes homosexual behavior.


So you think homosexuality = "harmful behavior"? Yeah, you can take a hike with that sh*t. Later.
Yes, I do think that homosexual sex is harmful behavior, corrosive both to individual flourishing and the common good. This has been by far the preferred opinion of mankind, both Christian and not, in most cultures, and remains the opinion for most of the world, despite the fact that the secular religion of the western world is working so hard to make people like you think that people who think what I think are evil.


I was under the impression "individual flourishing" was what will probably happen after a few of these scenes:

double aught said:
Sports-Ag said:
When Scarlet Witch went to the multiverse and possessed the body of Wanda in the kitchen and she stares at you (the fourth wall) the crowd was like whoa. I was like that's hot. I thought Elizabeth Olsen was hot as Scarlet Witch being the villain.
She looked damn good as Wanda in her mom clothes too.
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DallasTeleAg
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10:38p, 6/24/22
Just watched it, and don't really feel like taking the time to go through this entire thread, but my thoughts are:

This movie was dark.

Wasn't as bad as I feel others made it out to be. I would probably put it middle-low in the MCU, though. There were definitely a lot of very shocking scenes in this movie. I caught myself with my jaw dropped from surprise on multiple occasions.

I did not care for the ending with America just immediately being able to use her powers because... believe in yourself? I mean, it's the same crap we got in Kenobi. There was absolutely no build up to that moment other than the story required it. That was lazy writing and yet another example of unearned power-up time.

Olsen was great in her role, and sexy as ever. However, I did not appreciate her character seemingly doing a 180 from where we left her in Wandavision. I get our last view was her reading the Darkhold in her sleep and I guess that corrupted her. I would have much preferred a story where our universe's Wanda was with Strange to fight another universe's Wanda who was doing all of this. Perhaps make it where there is only one universe where Wanda has kids, and our Wanda has already let go of that dream for the greater good, so has to help another Wanda do the same.

It just felt like a retcon of the character from the rest of the MCU. She has spent the entire MCU trying to do the right thing, has a break where she selfishly creates the life she always wanted, and then gave it up because it was right. But now we want to tell a freaky multiverse story, so let's make her bad.

Just didn't like the direction of the character.
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DallasTeleAg
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10:52p, 6/24/22
Just went back a couple of pages... and there's TCTTS carrying on an argument with someone he claims is a troll yet continues to respond to. Par for the course!

To be honest, so much of this movie shocked me, I forgot about the couple. However, it is 2022, so to call them a "gay couple" just by looking at them is assuming their gender. What if one identified as a man? Are they then a heterosexual couple? Or do we just call them a queer couple? Or is calling them a queer couple now hateful because I am assuming either both or one identify as queer? Now I'm just confused.

Really, I just remember seeing that and chuckling to myself, then moving on. Seeing demons fly out of Strange's eyes and turn into bat wings put most of that out of my head.

As I have always said, no matter how much "woke" they choose to pump into the MCU moving forward, or how off the rails they get, we will always have Phases 1, 2, and 3.
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TCTTS
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In reply to DallasTeleAg • 10:55p, 6/24/22
AG
Literally never once said he was troll, or even alluded to him being one, but sure, go ahead and put words in my mouth.
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maroon barchetta
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In reply to TCTTS • 10:56p, 6/24/22
TCTTS said:
Literally never once said he was troll, or even alluded to that, but go ahead and put words in my mouth.


I said he was a troll
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double aught
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In reply to MASAXET • 12:39a, 6/25/22
AG
Quote:
I'm only shocked that no one has made equal fun of benfiasco's ridiculous immigrant take a couple of pages back. Not sure if that shows progress from the board or not.
That was an out there rant to be sure. I think he owes fat girlfriend for distracting everyone from his xenophobic nonsense.
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MooreTrucker
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3:04p, 6/25/22
AG
rhutton125 said:
She's fine, there's just not a lot of her. And her gay parents are one flashback scene.
Wait....THAT's what all the hubub is about? Seriously? (I haven't read the entire thread, probably for the best).

Quote:

I wonder when they'll rip the bandaid off and have an actual out and out gay hero. If it's not Valkyrie in 2 weeks we might have to wait until Iceman holds hands with someone in the final montage of the first X-Men film in 2026. Until then, nothing but glimpses and teases.
Based on a scene in the trailer I just saw, I don't think it's Valkyrie....
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TXAG 05
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3:37p, 6/25/22
AG
Watched it last night, thought it was good, but don't ever need to see it again. Like many others have said, I'd like them to at least give us a hint of what they are building towards.
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PatAg
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7:56p, 6/25/22
AG
I don't regret missing the incursion two pages back
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BowSowy
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In reply to DallasTeleAg • 10:46p, 6/25/22
AG
DallasTeleAg said:

Olsen was great in her role, and sexy as ever. However, I did not appreciate her character seemingly doing a 180 from where we left her in Wandavision. I get our last view was her reading the Darkhold in her sleep and I guess that corrupted her. I would have much preferred a story where our universe's Wanda was with Strange to fight another universe's Wanda who was doing all of this. Perhaps make it where there is only one universe where Wanda has kids, and our Wanda has already let go of that dream for the greater good, so has to help another Wanda do the same.

It just felt like a retcon of the character from the rest of the MCU. She has spent the entire MCU trying to do the right thing, has a break where she selfishly creates the life she always wanted, and then gave it up because it was right. But now we want to tell a freaky multiverse story, so let's make her bad.

Just didn't like the direction of the character.
I'm going to disagree here. When I watched MoM in theaters, I felt the same way. But just last week, I rewatched WandaVision with my wife. I do think they set up her character for this arc. In WV, her interactions with Agatha make it known that she doesn't initially know *how* she created this "altered" reality. Her experience with Agatha 1) makes her more powerful, 2) leads to her embracing the Scarlet Witch moniker (and then reading/being corrupted by the Darkhold), and 3) makes her learn how/why her power can make these things happen. Her motivations to bring her family back to reality have been clear, and the events from WV fully pushed her over the edge. (I think the corruption from the Darkhold is doing a lot for this point).

As for why we didn't see White Vision - I believe that her experience in WV made her realize that Vision is going to figure out that something is wrong, even when he has zero memory from the events before. Her goal changes to being together with her boys, and she realized bringing Vision into the gold had a chance to complicate things. But this could be me trying to explain away a plot hole haha.
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jeffk
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7:47a, 6/26/22
AG
Watched it again yesterday and it's still mid-tier Marvel in my opinion. It was interesting and dark, but overall not that enjoyable to me.

Also, I still can't get over that they released this on Mothers Day weekend.
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YouBet
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8:22a, 6/26/22
AG
Caught up on this. Movie was fine. Mid tier. Skipped most of thread because I got too far behind so SIAP:

Get the larger question on where we are going with Phase 4 but I would look at this movie as the end of a trilogy that kicked off Phase 4 - Wandavision, What If, and Multiverse are that trilogy that need to be watched as one. Someone watching Multiverse would almost have no idea what's happening if you hadn't watched the other two before it. Granted most people would have done that and known to do that but all the more reason the Disney+ shows are now a requirement.

I have no idea who America Chavez is which I assume is a function of me not reading the latest generation of comics, but she was obviously there for Gay Fan Service more-so than introducing a good or relevant character. Flame away on that one.

Really cool to see the Illuminati however briefly they were alive. Lol. Krasinski as Reed Richards was pretty awesome. Hopefully, that becomes permanent. Professor X was awesome so obviously we have the X-Men here now. I assume this Black Bolt is same one from Inhumans show? Never watched it. Is that even canon?

Carter is cool as alternate Cap. I don't think I'm a fan of Angry Captain Marvel in either iteration we've seen so far although I think I like Lashana a little better here than Brie Larson.

Also, was fine with the horror elements. If y'all recall, when this movie was first announced it was presented as going to be a full blown horror film which I think many of us were pumped about. And they dialed that back in the media some but still got elements. Appreciated them trying it a bit here. A lot of the visuals were pretty cool. Really liked the demon incorporation into Stranges cape or being or whatever. That was cool looking.

Is Strange having a third eye a permanent thing going forward? Charlize Theron still hot.

Edit: My wife turned to me at end of this and said exact same thing she said after finishing Kenobi the night before: "I think I'm done with Star Wars/Marvel for now."

Lol. Thanks Disney.

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swimmerbabe11
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In reply to jeffk • 8:37a, 6/26/22
jeffk said:
Watched it again yesterday and it's still mid-tier Marvel in my opinion. It was interesting and dark, but overall not that enjoyable to me.

Also, I still can't get over that they released this on Mothers Day weekend.



I thought I was the only person who found that insane
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maroon barchetta
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In reply to swimmerbabe11 • 9:31a, 6/26/22
swimmerbabe11 said:
jeffk said:
Watched it again yesterday and it's still mid-tier Marvel in my opinion. It was interesting and dark, but overall not that enjoyable to me.

Also, I still can't get over that they released this on Mothers Day weekend.



I thought I was the only person who found that insane


It's about a mother who will do anything for her children!
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MooreTrucker
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In reply to YouBet • 12:40p, 6/26/22
AG
Charlize Theron? Did I miss something?
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maroon barchetta
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In reply to MooreTrucker • 12:41p, 6/26/22
MooreTrucker said:
Charlize Theron? Did I miss something?


Easter egg scene.
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MooreTrucker
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In reply to maroon barchetta • 12:44p, 6/26/22
AG
Still don't know what it is.
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maroon barchetta
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12:47p, 6/26/22
1. Go see new Dr. Strange movie
2. When movie is over, DO NOT LEAVE!!! Wait until credits have rolled to see Easter egg scene
3. ?????
4. Profit
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MooreTrucker
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In reply to maroon barchetta • 1:02p, 6/26/22
AG
maroon barchetta said:
1. Go see new Dr. Strange movie
2. When movie is over, DO NOT LEAVE!!! Wait until credits have rolled to see Easter egg scene
3. ?????
4. Profit
OOOOOOHHHHH, that's who that was??? I love her but didn't recognize her. Mid-credits, right?
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maroon barchetta
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In reply to MooreTrucker • 2:29p, 6/26/22
I believe so.
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The Porkchop Express
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In reply to YouBet • 10:58p, 6/26/22
YouBet said:


I have no idea who America Chavez is which I assume is a function of me not reading the latest generation of comics, but she was obviously there for Gay Fan Service more-so than introducing a good or relevant character. Flame away on that one.

WARNING: I have a deep-seated desire for others to love the Star Wars franchise as much as I do, in exactly the way I do, and get snippy and sensitive and passive-aggressive when they don't.
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Madmarttigan
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12:54p, 6/27/22
AG
Just finished today. First, I'm a little shell shocked at how bad and and dumb this movie is.

Second I can't believe the two moms thing has been that much of a discussion when it was literally 5 seconds of screen time with no PDA. Holy crap talk about snowflakes people who are bringing up something so trivial.
Formerly tv1113
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Ornithopter
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7:29p, 6/27/22
AG
I think it was enjoyable, but what kept it from being great is the lack of a motivation for Wanda that made sense.
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redline248
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In reply to Ornithopter • 7:36p, 6/27/22
AG
DubFalls said:
I think it was enjoyable, but what kept it from being great is the lack of a motivation for Wanda that made sense.
How is there a lack of motivation from Wanda? Her brother is dead. A few years later her boyfriend died twice within a span of minutes, she breaks down and creates a world to bring him back, only to end up with both him and her fake kids dead, AND she's being corrupted by the Darkhold. Her singular motivation is getting her kids back in an attempt to fill the massive hole from all the loss she's experienced, no matter the cost.
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DallasTeleAg
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In reply to redline248 • 7:50p, 6/27/22
So she goes from someone struggling with loss, to a mass murderer? I don't buy it.
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YouBet
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In reply to DallasTeleAg • 7:59p, 6/27/22
AG
DallasTeleAg said:
So she goes from someone struggling with loss, to a mass murderer? I don't buy it.
She has God level powers and has lost all of the most important people in her life, so I never had any issue with her motive.

When you've faced that much loss, and you can literally change reality, that's a pretty big damn motivator.
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redline248
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8:02p, 6/27/22
AG
not to mention THE GODDAM DARKHOLD, WHICH EVERYONE SEEMS TO BE F-CKING FORGETTING, WAS ESSENTIALLY DOMINATING HER MIND WITH PURE EVIL
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TCTTS
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In reply to redline248 • 8:06p, 6/27/22
AG
Exactly, It drives me nuts that people keep glossing over this. If anything, her mistake, post WandaVision, was opening the Darkhold in the first place. But once she did, it essentially possessed her from then on out. Or at least took her desires/motivation to a very dark place.
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jeffk
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8:10p, 6/27/22
AG
See! Books are dangerous! I been trying to tell folks.
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double aught
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In reply to redline248 • 8:36p, 6/27/22
AG
redline248 said:
DubFalls said:
I think it was enjoyable, but what kept it from being great is the lack of a motivation for Wanda that made sense.
How is there a lack of motivation from Wanda? Her brother is dead. A few years later her boyfriend died twice within a span of minutes, she breaks down and creates a world to bring him back, only to end up with both him and her fake kids dead, AND she's being corrupted by the Darkhold. Her singular motivation is getting her kids back in an attempt to fill the massive hole from all the loss she's experienced, no matter the cost.
Don't forget she was dusted for five years (the kids call it "blipped").
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Madmarttigan
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In reply to TCTTS • 9:41p, 6/27/22
AG
TCTTS said:
Exactly, It drives me nuts that people keep glossing over this. If anything, her mistake, post WandaVision, was opening the Darkhold in the first place. But once she did, it essentially possessed her from then on out. Or at least took her desires/motivation to a very dark place.


I think it was still the suddenness of it. I think something setting up the darkholds impact would have been a little better at the beginning other than oh you read a corrupting book you are a mass murderer now within 5 mins.

Gives me shades of Danaerys ridiculousness from GoT. They do a better job of showing darkhold influence throughout the movie by introducing darker strange but right off the bat it's very sudden and feels like a harsh character flip.

My issue was more just how cheesy the America Chavez character was with the star punches and the dialogue during the believe in yourself ending. Super cheesy and laughable stuff.
Formerly tv1113
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TCTTS
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In reply to Madmarttigan • 9:48p, 6/27/22
AG
I hear you, and agree to an extent. We discussed this a bit when the movie first came out, but it basically came down to either setting up Wanda's "turn" more gradually, like you're describing - or - giving us that great surprise in the orchard scene that SHE'S the villain/behind it all. And for a number of us, the latter was worth sacrificing the former.
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Ornithopter
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In reply to TCTTS • 9:53p, 6/27/22
AG
TCTTS said:
I hear you, and agree to an extent. We discussed this a bit when the movie first came out, but it basically came down to either setting up Wanda's "turn" more gradually, like you're describing - or - giving us that great surprise in the orchard scene that SHE'S the villain/behind it all. And for a number of us, the latter was worth sacrificing the former.


So, with the way MoM ended it would make sense for Dr Strange to get corrupted. We have seen Sinister Strange, we have seen the third eye, it's all building nicely.

The Scarlet Witch thing and the Dark hold uss just more blunt of a build. We could have used seeing her be warned against it, had some conflict with her decision making process, and then going into it. Even watching WandaVision it didn't make sense. That left it where she was at peace with losing things because the cost wasn't worth it. But now, she changed her mind and is okay murdering instead of just controlling minds.
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TCTTS
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In reply to Ornithopter • 9:55p, 6/27/22
AG
Huh?
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