*** WATCHMEN (HBO) ***

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Robert C. Christian
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In reply to hunter2012 • 7:48a, 10/22/19
AG
hunter2012 said:
With the good reviews I'd like to ask before watching, is the white supremacy bits just an eye roll or does it actually get preachy? It's probably just bad timing that I just finished "the Boys"(and the conceited Christian camp episode), so I really don't feel like being preached at again.

Wasn't preachy, The Cavalry is described as a white supremacist group but, not actions or background is really given.

If actual history is preachy, you won't like the opening scene.
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c-jags
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In reply to Robert C. Christian • 8:03a, 10/22/19
Robert C. Christian said:
hunter2012 said:
With the good reviews I'd like to ask before watching, is the white supremacy bits just an eye roll or does it actually get preachy? It's probably just bad timing that I just finished "the Boys"(and the conceited Christian camp episode), so I really don't feel like being preached at again.

Wasn't preachy, The Cavalry is described as a white supremacist group but, not actions or background is really given.

If actual history is preachy, you won't like the opening scene.


I'm strongly against the concept of white supremacist as the bad guys and think (as of now, I could be surprised later) it's lazy writing and a fake boogeyman... and thought the opening scene was well done, sobering, and that the Tulsa riots need to be known far and wide. I thought it was an amazing and heartbreaking scene.

It's possible to sympathize with real pain from our past as well as not wanting Hollywood to stoke racial fires today.

I think everyone has been civil this far in this thread, FTR.
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BenFiasco14
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In reply to hunter2012 • 8:06a, 10/22/19
AG
hunter2012 said:
With the good reviews I'd like to ask before watching, is the white supremacy bits just an eye roll or does it actually get preachy? It's probably just bad timing that I just finished "the Boys"(and the conceited Christian camp episode), so I really don't feel like being preached at again.
Eye roll (for now)
CNN is an enemy of the state and should be treated as such.
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easttexasaggie04
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8:15a, 10/22/19
AG
I'm in the demographic that has never seen The Watchmen. I pretty much have no idea what's going on but still enjoyed the pilot episode. I actually kind of like figuring it out as I go.
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redline248
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8:58a, 10/22/19
AG
It reminds me of Legion in a "wtf is happening" regard
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Old Tom Morris
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In reply to easttexasaggie04 • 9:15a, 10/22/19
easttexasaggie04 said:
I'm in the demographic that has never seen The Watchmen. I pretty much have no idea what's going on but still enjoyed the pilot episode. I actually kind of like figuring it out as I go.
Same boat here. Enjoyed the pilot. Interested to see more. Obviously a lot of it is a mystery to me for now, but it didn't make it less enjoyable. That said, the white supremecist angle seemed trite, but obviously, given that it feels there's a lot more to this, I'm willing to be patient on that one for now.
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Old Tom Morris
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9:28a, 10/22/19
That said, I was disappointed that they couldn't work in Tim Blake Nelson with a "Oh, George, not the livestock" in the 50 cal scene.
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Swarely
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12:59p, 10/22/19
Anyone looking to dive a little deeper needs to go read the supplemental PDFs on HBOs website.

https://www.hbo.com/peteypedia

My apologies if it has already been posted.
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easttexasaggie04
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3:54p, 10/22/19
AG
Watching The Watchmen last night has brought me down the rabbit hole of watching many YouTube videos about the movie and graphic novel. Now I'm very interested. I guess the only thing left to do is watch the movie. I know I'll never read the graphic novel.
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Swarely
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In reply to easttexasaggie04 • 3:59p, 10/22/19
You can probably read the graphic novel faster than watching the movie. The endings are pretty different, and it seems the show will be following the GN.
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TCTTS
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In reply to easttexasaggie04 • 4:04p, 10/22/19
AG
There's a voiced/animated version of the graphic novel that's really good. Not animated in the traditional sense, but they animated the comic panels in a really cool and effective way. It's been years since I watched it, so I don't know where to find it, but I'm sure it's still available online if you Google it. That would be my preferred method, even above the movie (though the movie is definitely worth it).
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DonaldFDraper
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4:28p, 10/22/19
AG
Is the movie available on any of the (legal) streaming services?
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TMoney2007
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In reply to Old Tom Morris • 4:30p, 10/22/19
AG
Old Tom Morris said:
easttexasaggie04 said:
I'm in the demographic that has never seen The Watchmen. I pretty much have no idea what's going on but still enjoyed the pilot episode. I actually kind of like figuring it out as I go.
Same boat here. Enjoyed the pilot. Interested to see more. Obviously a lot of it is a mystery to me for now, but it didn't make it less enjoyable. That said, the white supremecist angle seemed trite, but obviously, given that it feels there's a lot more to this, I'm willing to be patient on that one for now.
Stop the presses!!! This is unheard of!!!
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PDWT_12
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5:01p, 10/22/19
AG

Stolen from Reddit. Pretty cool detail
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Duncan Idaho
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In reply to PDWT_12 • 6:25p, 10/22/19
PDWT_12 said:

Stolen from Reddit. Pretty cool detail

Literally hitler
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BQ08
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8:53p, 10/23/19
AG
Seems like most of the viewing audience (rt, imdb) had the same opinion I did... ham-fisted wokeness.

I cringed when I heard that "smells like bleach" line.

TCTTS, I hope you're right about a slow burn, because on the surface, it was pretty contrived and uninteresting.
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TCTTS
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In reply to BQ08 • 9:46p, 10/23/19
AG
Two things:

1) If we're citing "most of the viewing audience," reactions on the whole seem to be positive, which would go against your own, personal "contrived and uninteresting" feelings, whether most of the viewing audience had a problem with the "wokeness" or not. You can't cite them on one angle and not the other.

2) It doesn't matter whether I'm right or wrong. You're missing the point of my argument. I'm saying let's put away the pitch forks until we know for sure. Seeing as Lindelof seems smarter than to ultimately go that route, and the fact that one of the main tenets of Watchman is literally that things on the surface aren't what they seem, let's not do the typical, cliched TexAgs thing of criticizing "wokeness" or SJWs or "libs" or whatever until we've seen the whole thing. It's like once every six weeks or so people come out of the woodwork to b*tch about this kind of stuff in regards to an unseen movie or series, before we have all the facts/context, and it's never, ever accurate and none of the people b*tching about all that nothingness ever come back and say, "You know what, I overreacted." It's just rinse and repeat and it's happened so many times here that I'm just trying to say, once again, let's wait 'til we have all the pieces in front of us. Then, if it ends up being as bad as you think it's going to be, go nuts and gripe all you want.
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AirplaneAg09
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12:18a, 10/24/19
AG
It's been a few days since I watched the premiere but is the opening scene and the black cop getting shot clouding some people's judgement on the white supremacists boogeymen angle? I came away from the episode thinking more that the 7Th Cav guys were domestic terrorists/freedom fighters standing up against a police state. It just so happens the main cop character is black(and kinda racist herself?), but they obviously lynched Don Johnson the white police chief. Was there some specifically racist stuff said by the 7th Cav characters, or is that the assumption because of the stereotype? I genuinely don't remember and need to rewatch the episode before Sunday.
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Proc92
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2:06a, 10/24/19
I'm up for one of those series that starts out all woke but turns that on it's head later. Suggestions?
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BQ08
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In reply to TCTTS • 6:06a, 10/24/19
AG
TCTTS said:
Two things:

1) If we're citing "most of the viewing audience," reactions on the whole seem to be positive, which would go against your own, personal "contrived and uninteresting" feelings, whether most of the viewing audience had a problem with the "wokeness" or not. You can't cite them on one angle and not the other.

2) It doesn't matter whether I'm right or wrong. You're missing the point of my argument. I'm saying let's put away the pitch forks until we know for sure. Seeing as Lindelof seems smarter than to ultimately go that route, and the fact that one of the main tenets of Watchman is literally that things on the surface aren't what they seem, let's not do the typical, cliched TexAgs thing of criticizing "wokeness" or SJLs or "libs" or whatever until we've seen the whole thing. It's like once every six weeks or so people come out of the woodwork to b*tch about this kind of stuff in regards to an unseen movie or series, before we have all the facts/context, and it's never, ever accurate and none of the people b*tching about all that nothingness ever come back and say, "You know what, I overreacted." It's just rinse and repeat and it's happened so many times here that I'm just trying to say, once again, let's wait 'til we have all the pieces in front of us. Then, if it ends up being as bad as you think it's going to be, go nuts and gripe all you want.


Dude, it's scoring below 50% with the audience on rotten tomatoes (which you seem to be ignoring) . And yes, like I said- it seems hamfisted and woke for wokeness sake AT THE MOMENT (should have added that clarifier)

And as for your comment about people *****ing about things they haven't seen, I was genuinely excited about this one. I can see why Alan Moore wanted nothing to do with this one now.

I am hoping it gets better, but the dialogue was pretty terrible, visuals were nice though.
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GinaLinetti
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6:27a, 10/24/19
AG
I may have seen the movie but dont remember. I really liked the first episode. Weird but fun.

I'm more upset that I never heard of Black WALL street or the Tulsa Race Massacre until now. I've taken tons of history classes and not once was it mentioned. How devastatingly sad.
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PDWT_12
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8:52a, 10/24/19
AG
Don't really want to get into with anybody, because I doubt anybody will change their minds, but I'm really not bothered by the white supremacist bad guy thing they've got going on, and I really don't think there is going to be some major twist where we find out there's much more to them than that. Granted, I haven't seen "The Boys" on Amazon so I'm not already maxed out on them as a villain type, no more than I am white Russian gangsters, Middle Eastern terrorists, or Mexican drug cartels as bad guys in media.

I mean, Rorschach submitted his journal to a "news organization" that would appeal to those types of people, and it makes sense that they would pick up on the truths in his writings and warp them to fit their own belief system. And the Nixon City or whatever that trailer park was made me think immediately of Elohim City (a white supremacy community) in Oklahoma.

So I don't know. I could see it never being more than "Yes, these people are racist. And scum. And whatever else. But they're not totally wrong. Veidt, the government, somebody is hiding something from the American public, and they're using a masked police force that frees themselves up to abduct and abuse citizens on whims and suspicion to keep you from finding out about it."

But it's Watchmen, it's Lindelof, and there is 9 episodes left. Plenty of time to flip this story into something else new and crazy.


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Bigfootisreal
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10:37a, 10/24/19
I re-watched last night after the Astros got creamed. Much better than my initial impression.

Weird question- but why are the black couple's kids white?
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Duncan Idaho
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In reply to Bigfootisreal • 11:21a, 10/24/19
Bigfootisreal said:
I re-watched last night after the Astros got creamed. Much better than my initial impression.

Weird question- but why are the black couple's kids white?

I am going to go on a limb and guess adoption.
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TMoney2007
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In reply to BQ08 • 11:38a, 10/24/19
AG
BQ08 said:
TCTTS said:
Two things:

1) If we're citing "most of the viewing audience," reactions on the whole seem to be positive, which would go against your own, personal "contrived and uninteresting" feelings, whether most of the viewing audience had a problem with the "wokeness" or not. You can't cite them on one angle and not the other.

2) It doesn't matter whether I'm right or wrong. You're missing the point of my argument. I'm saying let's put away the pitch forks until we know for sure. Seeing as Lindelof seems smarter than to ultimately go that route, and the fact that one of the main tenets of Watchman is literally that things on the surface aren't what they seem, let's not do the typical, cliched TexAgs thing of criticizing "wokeness" or SJLs or "libs" or whatever until we've seen the whole thing. It's like once every six weeks or so people come out of the woodwork to b*tch about this kind of stuff in regards to an unseen movie or series, before we have all the facts/context, and it's never, ever accurate and none of the people b*tching about all that nothingness ever come back and say, "You know what, I overreacted." It's just rinse and repeat and it's happened so many times here that I'm just trying to say, once again, let's wait 'til we have all the pieces in front of us. Then, if it ends up being as bad as you think it's going to be, go nuts and gripe all you want.


Dude, it's scoring below 50% with the audience on rotten tomatoes (which you seem to be ignoring) . And yes, like I said- it seems hamfisted and woke for wokeness sake AT THE MOMENT (should have added that clarifier)

And as for your comment about people *****ing about things they haven't seen, I was genuinely excited about this one. I can see why Alan Moore wanted nothing to do with this one now.

I am hoping it gets better, but the dialogue was pretty terrible, visuals were nice though.
Alan Moore thinks he's a witch and is salty because he signed his rights away and didn't like the deal he got after the fact. I wouldn't read too much into him not being involved with an adaptation.

He's crazy and salty.
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Definitely Not A Cop
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In reply to Bigfootisreal • 12:40p, 10/24/19
AG
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TCTTS
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12:47p, 10/24/19
AG
You guys throw around "woke" and "SJW" so much that they totally lose their meaning. That, and I don't think you quite understand what the terms mean to begin with. Nothing about this episode was "woke" or featured any social justice warrior-ing whatsoever. Yes, it dealt with race, but that doesn't mean it was trying to make some grand, eye-opening statement.
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TCTTS
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In reply to TCTTS • 12:47p, 10/24/19
AG
(I say this right as Champ edits/deleted his SJW comment, of course.)
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TCTTS
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In reply to PDWT_12 • 12:48p, 10/24/19
AG
Very well said.
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TCTTS
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In reply to Bigfootisreal • 1:06p, 10/24/19
AG
Bigfootisreal said:
I re-watched last night after the Astros got creamed. Much better than my initial impression.

Weird question- but why are the black couple's kids white?

I could be wrong, but the Tulsa of this world seems almost upside down in a way. "Redfordations" (President Redford's reparations) have seemingly been paid to the black community for the Tulsa Massacre / Race Riot of 1921. There was not only a "celebration" of black figures/culture on a downtown mural, but blacks also seemed to be extremely well off in this version of Tulsa. The black cop who was shot had a really nice, big house, and Angela's family seemed to have a very nice life as well. I saw them having adopted white kids in the same way an affluent white family might adopt underprivileged black children. The whites of this version of Tulsa may, in fact, be the underprivileged. Again, I could be wrong, but that was the impression I got and why I'm erring on the side of this all being SUPER intentional in a way that will be used effectively down the line, beyond just "white people are racist." There's a very intentional reversal going on here beyond just trying to be "woke."
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Definitely Not A Cop
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In reply to TCTTS • 2:42p, 10/24/19
AG
TCTTS said:
(I say this right as Champ edits/deleted his SJW comment, of course.)


I was trying to be sarcastic, but it came across as serious, so I deleted it.
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Jasomania
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In reply to Bigfootisreal • 4:17p, 10/24/19
AG
Bigfootisreal said:
I re-watched last night after the Astros got creamed. Much better than my initial impression.

Weird question- but why are the black couple's kids white?
My assumption was that because of the gun shot wound she talked about to the classroom she isn't able to have kids.
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TCTTS
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In reply to Jasomania • 4:25p, 10/24/19
AG
Ah, good call.
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TCTTS
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4:27p, 10/24/19
AG
I just rewatched the pilot as well during lunch and yeah, it definitely plays better the second time. I'm really warming up to this world. After soaking everything in, the "in the weeks ahead" preview looked even better too. Can't wait to see where all this goes.
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easttexasaggie04
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In reply to TCTTS • 4:29p, 10/24/19
AG
Yea I'm all in. At first watch I was lost. Now with the help of YouTube and this thread I'm not quite as WTF. The squid really threw me at first watch.
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