Is that their whole world?
******Official Game of Thrones Season 4 NONSPOILER thread
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Last: 11 yr ago by Rudyjax
I saw something where the wall was 300 miles across, do that scale looks way off if that is true.
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I think his point was more that Littlefinger probably didn't undertake it on his own, he's certainly capable but most likely wouldn't do something like that without other motivation
You mean like when he told Catelyn on the spot that the knife in season 1 was his and he lost it in a bet to Tyrion (despite Tyrion never owning it?) That kicked off the whole conflict and no one gave LF an order to do that.
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I saw something where the wall was 300 miles across, do that scale looks way off if that is true.
Looks pretty close to me, if the wall is 300 miles.. Just looked up the width of Utah for comparison: 370 miles.
Yeah, never mind... I was looking at the map on my phone earlier and looked more like the wall was the size of Texas from that small view...
In the first season lots of people made the trip from Winterfell to King's Landing in what seemed like a relatively short time. From the look of that map that would be like going from Montana to New Orleans. With a large party traveling by horseback, it seems like they made that in a pretty short time.
I copied the map picture to paint and drew straight lines. It was slightly longer as the crow flies from Winterfell to King's Landing, and that doesn't take into account having to go around some bodies of water.
I copied the map picture to paint and drew straight lines. It was slightly longer as the crow flies from Winterfell to King's Landing, and that doesn't take into account having to go around some bodies of water.
Yeah, that scale vs America looks ridiculously large.
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In the first season lots of people made the trip from Winterfell to King's Landing in what seemed like a relatively short time. From the look of that map that would be like going from Montana to New Orleans. With a large party traveling by horseback, it seems like they made that in a pretty short time.
I copied the map picture to paint and drew straight lines. It was slightly longer as the crow flies from Winterfell to King's Landing, and that doesn't take into account having to go around some bodies of water.
I was always under the impression it took them a while, like several weeks, maybe even a couple months.
It's kind of tough to gauge how fast time is passing. I didn't realize, until I read it somewhere the other day, that Joffrey was king for 2 years.
Winterfell is only slightly closer to KL than Mereen is. So obviously she's still just a few episodes horse ride from KL, regardless if the idiotically huge country. The Starks apparently managed to lose an empire the size of France to some dudes and a chick in a few boats, because they apparently took the entire levy population of France with them on a thousand mile march to the Riverlands.
[This message has been edited by JJxvi (edited 4/21/2014 10:40p).]
[This message has been edited by JJxvi (edited 4/21/2014 10:40p).]
Apparently Ned forgot to teach Robb that leaving a 10 year old crippled kid in charge of administering a 300,000 square mile area feudal empire is one of the classic blunders.
[This message has been edited by JJxvi (edited 4/21/2014 10:35p).]
[This message has been edited by JJxvi (edited 4/21/2014 10:35p).]
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Apparently Ned forgot to teach Robb that leaving a 10 year old crippled kid in charge of administering a 300,000 square mile area feudal empire is one of the classic blunders.
clearly a derivative of "never get in a land war in Asia"
Watched it tonight and a couple of thoughts
1) I loved the conversation between Tywin and Tommen in the sept. Well written and well acted
2) Was that the first time Jaime has publicly claimed Joffrey? Obviously we all knew it, but I can't remember Jamie and Cersei actually acknowledging it
3) Little Finger's accent was incredibly distracting. He didn't use to use his accent did he?
1) I loved the conversation between Tywin and Tommen in the sept. Well written and well acted
2) Was that the first time Jaime has publicly claimed Joffrey? Obviously we all knew it, but I can't remember Jamie and Cersei actually acknowledging it
3) Little Finger's accent was incredibly distracting. He didn't use to use his accent did he?
If Tyrion is found not guilty & set free what do you bet that Cersei has Shae murdered or tortured... Maybe have her head delivered to him.
I noticed the seemingly new accent by littlefinger as well
Back to the Purple Wedding for a moment (and down the rabbit hole)...
My reservation about the Olenna-necklace-poison theory is that it's no easier to poison Joffrey by requiring Olenna to dismember the necklace while Sansa's wearing it than it is to sneak poison in using any other of a number of ways. It's going out of the way to do something difficult to poison Joffrey (assuming Sansa isn't in on it, which I think is reasonable to assume, given her surprise during her conversation with Baelish).
So if there's no tactical reason to get Sansa involved, maybe there's a strategic reason? If the poisoning needed to be pinned on Tyrion, it has the added (maybe even primary) benefit of eliminating the last known Stark too because Cersei predictably would have both Tyrion and Sansa arrested. (If the necklace is dismembered even without Tyrion being made cupbearer, then Sansa alone probably would've ended up the investigation's target.)
I can only think of one person who benefits from stamping out the last known Stark—Roose Bolton, who is merely Warden of the North until issue from Tyrion and Sansa's union comes of age to rule the North from Winterfell. With the Stark line finally stamped out, Bolton can start a hereditary dynasty in the North. He just took a wife, after all.
Maybe Baelish is involved with this Tyrell-Bolton plot but couldn't bear to see Catelyn Stark's last (known) remnant die. That, then, sets Baelish at odds with Bolton, whose army is currently trapped south of Moat Cailin.
My reservation about the Olenna-necklace-poison theory is that it's no easier to poison Joffrey by requiring Olenna to dismember the necklace while Sansa's wearing it than it is to sneak poison in using any other of a number of ways. It's going out of the way to do something difficult to poison Joffrey (assuming Sansa isn't in on it, which I think is reasonable to assume, given her surprise during her conversation with Baelish).
So if there's no tactical reason to get Sansa involved, maybe there's a strategic reason? If the poisoning needed to be pinned on Tyrion, it has the added (maybe even primary) benefit of eliminating the last known Stark too because Cersei predictably would have both Tyrion and Sansa arrested. (If the necklace is dismembered even without Tyrion being made cupbearer, then Sansa alone probably would've ended up the investigation's target.)
I can only think of one person who benefits from stamping out the last known Stark—Roose Bolton, who is merely Warden of the North until issue from Tyrion and Sansa's union comes of age to rule the North from Winterfell. With the Stark line finally stamped out, Bolton can start a hereditary dynasty in the North. He just took a wife, after all.
Maybe Baelish is involved with this Tyrell-Bolton plot but couldn't bear to see Catelyn Stark's last (known) remnant die. That, then, sets Baelish at odds with Bolton, whose army is currently trapped south of Moat Cailin.
It does seem like a lot of moving parts. The only reason I could think of having the poison necklace as the "delivery mechanism" to the wedding party was to put as much separation between the person who created the poison and the person doing the poisoning as possible. It's likely Dontos had no idea there was poison in the necklace. There's more opportunity for plausible deniability and misdirection in case something goes awry.
The longer the strings between the puppeteer and the puppet, the harder it is to see who's pulling the strings.
The longer the strings between the puppeteer and the puppet, the harder it is to see who's pulling the strings.
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The longer the strings between the puppeteer and the puppet, the harder it is to see who's pulling the strings.
Bingo Barnacle. This is why as a non book reader I'm still not 100% sure who is directly behind it. Man I love this show!
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The 7 kingdoms aren't the size of like North America and South America, more like the British Isles. Small enough for say the King's court to take a trip to Winterfell and back to go get Ned and his family
quote:quote:
In the first season lots of people made the trip from Winterfell to King's Landing in what seemed like a relatively short time. From the look of that map that would be like going from Montana to New Orleans. With a large party traveling by horseback, it seems like they made that in a pretty short time.
I copied the map picture to paint and drew straight lines. It was slightly longer as the crow flies from Winterfell to King's Landing, and that doesn't take into account having to go around some bodies of water.
I was always under the impression it took them a while, like several weeks, maybe even a couple months.
It's kind of tough to gauge how fast time is passing. I didn't realize, until I read it somewhere the other day, that Joffrey was king for 2 years.
In the very first episode, they make mention of traveling for a month to get from Kings Landing to Winterfell.
yes but that is a month for the king, his family and all the support staff to get there probably stopping every day somewhere to meet with other entities. Plus, it's obvious Robert liked to stop and hunt or stop and have lunch, drink, etc., so probably a snail's pace compared to a few guys on horseback.
quote:
Back to the Purple Wedding for a moment (and down the rabbit hole)...
My reservation about the Olenna-necklace-poison theory is that it's no easier to poison Joffrey by requiring Olenna to dismember the necklace while Sansa's wearing it than it is to sneak poison in using any other of a number of ways. It's going out of the way to do something difficult to poison Joffrey (assuming Sansa isn't in on it, which I think is reasonable to assume, given her surprise during her conversation with Baelish).
So if there's no tactical reason to get Sansa involved, maybe there's a strategic reason? If the poisoning needed to be pinned on Tyrion, it has the added (maybe even primary) benefit of eliminating the last known Stark too because Cersei predictably would have both Tyrion and Sansa arrested. (If the necklace is dismembered even without Tyrion being made cupbearer, then Sansa alone probably would've ended up the investigation's target.)
I can only think of one person who benefits from stamping out the last known Stark—Roose Bolton, who is merely Warden of the North until issue from Tyrion and Sansa's union comes of age to rule the North from Winterfell. With the Stark line finally stamped out, Bolton can start a hereditary dynasty in the North. He just took a wife, after all.
Maybe Baelish is involved with this Tyrell-Bolton plot but couldn't bear to see Catelyn Stark's last (known) remnant die. That, then, sets Baelish at odds with Bolton, whose army is currently trapped south of Moat Cailin.
I think you're right on about pinning the poisoning on Tyrion being the strategy behind involving Sansa. I'm sure the boat with Danto's body and the necklace will be found; and the connection between the necklace, Sansa, and Tyrion will further put the focus on Tyrion being the assassin.
I'm curious to see how Littlefinger's involvement in this all plays out and what his reward for being involved is. Obviously he has Sansa in his possession, which in his eyes could be a replacement for never having Catelyn. I've long thought that Littlefinger is one of the more dangerous characters in this series. His ability to manipulate others and make one of the families think he is on their side gives him a lot of power. Ned Stark thought he was on his side until he turned on him at the end of season one; Joffrey/Cersei/Lannister's still think(except Joffrey) he is on their side even though it is clear he isn't.
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I can only think of one person who benefits from stamping out the last known Stark—Roose Bolton, who is merely Warden of the North until issue from Tyrion and Sansa's union comes of age to rule the North from Winterfell. With the Stark line finally stamped out, Bolton can start a hereditary dynasty in the North. He just took a wife, after all.
Bolton now knows that Bran and Rickon are alive, so he's got a long way to go to become Warden of the North.
I'm wondering if Bolton will send word that Brand and Rickon are alive to Tywin, or will he keep that a secret because it would mean the title given him by Tywin isn't legit?
As for the map, that scale of 900 miles shows that Dany and her thousands of troops have a long way to go to get to striking distance from KL. And a water route (after they got a shi$-ton of boats) looks sort of winding and treacherous.
In that Wiki page they quote GRRM as stating Westeros is roughly the size of South America.
quote:I'm not disagreeing with the part about frequent stops, but how fast can a few guys on horseback ride across most of South America?
yes but that is a month for the king, his family and all the support staff to get there probably stopping every day somewhere to meet with other entities. Plus, it's obvious Robert liked to stop and hunt or stop and have lunch, drink, etc., so probably a snail's pace compared to a few guys on horseback.
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In that Wiki page they quote GRRM as stating Westeros is roughly the size of South America.
Geez, is it Sunday yet? I'm ready to read about some subject matter that is NOT geography/map scale related....
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Apparently Ned forgot to teach Robb that leaving a 10 year old crippled kid in charge of administering a 300,000 square mile area feudal empire is one of the classic blunders.
He really left Maester Luwin and Rodrick Cassell in charge though, Bran just did what they suggested. The critical mistake was leaving Winterfell unprotected to go chase after the Ironborn. Even if they had left 100 troops it would have been virtually impossible to take without a huge army. It's not like Bran was making strategic decisions like that and Luwin and Cassell should have known better.
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I'm not disagreeing with the part about frequent stops, but how fast can a few guys on horseback ride across most of South America?
Or a few thousand junkless dudes to walk across South America, freeing slaves along the way? Haven't read the books, but it appears that Dany's dragons will be the size of a T-Rex when she finally heads across the pond in Season 7.
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Bingo Barnacle. This is why as a non book reader I'm still not 100% sure who is directly behind it. Man I love this show!
If you've never seen the books, they are huge. The take away from that is that Martin is not afraid to develop his story and characters slowly over time. He's gonna put some beer in that crock pot too
Obliterating cliches and not insulting your intelligence are big reasons why I love this show too.
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I'm curious to see how Littlefinger's involvement in this all plays out and what his reward for being involved is. Obviously he has Sansa in his possession, which in his eyes could be a replacement for never having Catelyn.
In addition to his obsession with Catelyn, Sansa is the heir to Winterfell. If Tyrian is executed, she is free to marry again. Even if he isn't, the wedding hasn't been consummated and can be annulled. So Baelish has the potential to be the Lord of Harenhall, The Veil, and Winterfell.
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I'm wondering if Bolton will send word that Brand and Rickon are alive to Tywin, or will he keep that a secret because it would mean the title given him by Tywin isn't legit?
I doubt he would want to risk that word getting out. He'll probably keep that secret to himself and do his best to hunt them down and eliminate them with everyone else none the wiser. The only reason to let anyone else know would be if he needed help hunting them and that would be a weak reason. No sense risking a decision by the Lannister's to align themselves with these wayward princes behind your back.
[This message has been edited by Barnacle (edited 4/22/2014 9:55a).]
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No sense risking a decision by the Lannister's to align themselves with these wayward princes behind your back.
Why in the hell would Bran and Rickon align with the Lannisters?
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In addition to his obsession with Catelyn, Sansa is the heir to Winterfell. If Tyrian is executed, she is free to marry again.
But executing Tyrion necessarily implicates her too. And the poison-plotters could never have assumed that Tyrion would be involved at all. Only at the wedding did Joffrey make Tyrion cupbearer in a fit of childish rage.
The poison-plotters used Sansa's necklace to throw Sansa under the bus. There's no other reason to have done so.
I know. Everyone of note in KL has heard Tyrian threaten the king. The plotters know Cersei and know that her dimwitted rage would eagerly point the finger at him. She already wants Tyrian dead and has made attempts on his life. He's the perfect patsy and his possible execution is just a side benefit to the primary objective of killing the king. If he's not executed, no biggie.
It wouldn't matter if the Lannisters want to implicate Sansa or not. Keep her hidden until an opportune time to present her as the heir to Winterfell and your bride. Baelish is playing the long game.
It wouldn't matter if the Lannisters want to implicate Sansa or not. Keep her hidden until an opportune time to present her as the heir to Winterfell and your bride. Baelish is playing the long game.
No way the actually execute him, right?
They could have been banking on Cersei's ill will towards Tyrion to drive her to accuse him; especially once/if she figured out Sansa wore the necklace containing the poison to the wedding.
[This message has been edited by Ramrod (edited 4/22/2014 10:28a).]
[This message has been edited by Ramrod (edited 4/22/2014 10:28a).]
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