The CBO is inherently biased and leans partisan Democrat. This is a matter of fact and not something that can be refuted outside of statements from the CBO itself or liberal journalists or other Democrats.

Now that we have established that as fact, we can also state that the CBO certainly considers tax cuts negatively. We can parse words and call it "spending" or give it a euphemism of some sort but reality remains the same. They will count it as a negative on the books. This is incontrovertible and cannot be proven otherwise even through their own misleading statements.

They do not take growth through tax cuts into account, or anything else. They are aware of how this skews the data and they do not care.

Funky Winkerbean said:

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The deportations will help reduce the drag on our welfare programs.

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Workfare requirements as well. Ironically enough, earlier some folks were referencing Newts success in the 1990's which also include work requirements for welfare programs.

But let's check in to see if Newt agrees with all the negative nancies in this thread…

Yes welfare programs are a drag, but cutting Medicaid which will lead to closures of many rural hospitals will be deadly, and limiting student loans to 200k? How will anyone be able to go to medical school? Well have no doctors to take care of us, or they'll just sub in suboptimal midlevels. Regardless, we send billions to ukraine, Israel, African countries, asian countries, and refuse to spend on ourselves. No side is with the American people

The other fact lost is that Trump is modeling the strategy of one Ronald Reagan.

Ag_of_08 said:

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So youre fine with no real spending cuts and skyrocketing actual spending?

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What "actual spending" is in the bill?

BoydCrowder13 said:

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aggiegolfer2012 said:

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Can't wait to see next year's 1.8 trillion in deficit and how the Trumpie's here rationalize it.

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It won't be mentioned. And if you do, you are a liberal

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It would be great if next year the deficit is 1.8 trillion.

Because that would mean the deficit DECREASED...

MemphisAg1 said:

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LOYAL AG said:

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Did you read my post? There's no alternative but to run deficits. We collect $5T and untouchable spending is $5.25T. At this point we're just debating the depth of the hole. The only way it decreases is as demands on Social Security fade with the boomers dying off. The best thing we can do in the interim is grow receipts by growing the tax base which is what this bill is trying to do. We aren't cutting spending in any meaningful way so this is the best we'll get.

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We'll just have to agree to disagree. We can absolutely cut spending just like we increased it, with legislation. It takes political will. There are so many options for doing it that aren't extreme but would begin moving us in the right direction. A couple examples:

• Hold spending flat for 10 years and don't adjust for inflation. To be clear, don't cut spending... just keep it flat and let inflation help you on the revenue side.
• Restore spending to the baseline pre-covid 2019 and adjust it for inflation.

Either one of those or something like it would start moving us in the right direction. Neither are extreme. Just a little belt-tightening. It can be done.

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Explain how you hold Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid spending flat.

The rest of the spending could be flattened with no problem and it wouldn't affect the problem...

Logos Stick said:

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This

"The cost of this bill was not new spending so much as tax cuts, which are scored as spending."


Is not true. Tax cuts are not scored as spending.

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They are the only reason this bill is considered to increase the deficit.

Don't call it spending...whatever...it's just semantics if the scoring assumes that tax cuts will cause the deficit to increase.

And it's also bull*****

Logos Stick said:

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jefe95 said:

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Cite your work.

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He made the claim. You ask him to cite his.

Why do you believe him? Cite your work.

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I posted the analysis in another thread and pointed you to it earlier...

jefe95 said:

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Reduced tax revenue via tax cuts is considered spending when a bill is scored.

That why they say tax cuts "cost" x trillion over 10 years. It's money the government doesn't get any more so it's a cost to the government coffers.

It's backwards logic. But that's how it is.

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It's also bull****, since tax revenues haven't decreased after any of those tax cuts...

Funky Winkerbean said:

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Quote:

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Tax cuts are scored as reductions in federal revenue, not as increases in spending.

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Which does what to deficit projections?

---

He's arguing semantics...

Dirty_Mike&the_boys said:

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This never ending debate regarding the CBO's understanding and application of dynamic scoring is so nonsensical because can anyone please point to the source evidence for the time the CBO got it right? In 2017 they said Trump was running us off an economic cliff and it took a man made fake flu epidemic to take down the economy that was on fire up to that point.

Wag the dog

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It's the LACK of dynamic scoring that is the problem with the CBO numbers...

flown-the-coop said:

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Rs have a solid campaign point now that the BBB is passed and the Dems held in lock step against it.

Now this is where you can start slaying them on single issue bills if Johnson and Thune can stay in sync.

Dems are so shell shocked these days getting them to continue to self inflict should be a high priority.

---

This is the fever dream I wish would come true. Rapid fire small, very limited issue bills. Either create new laws or put the democrats on the record of hot button issues. None of this millions of people will die and obfuscate the details.

Ag with kids said:

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Funky Winkerbean said:

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Quote:

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Tax cuts are scored as reductions in federal revenue, not as increases in spending.

---

Which does what to deficit projections?

---

He's arguing semantics...

---

I'm arguing truth.

The tax code that was scored by CBO is the tax code that exists on Jan 1, 2026. The current tax rates expire on December 31st. The CBO is legally bound by what the law is, not by what you or Trump or Miller want it to be.

Even Miller has never argued that tax cuts are counted as spending by the CBO because he's not an idiot. He just thinks it's bogus because part of the bill extends those rates.

Logos Stick said:

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Ag with kids said:

---

Funky Winkerbean said:

---

Quote:

---

Tax cuts are scored as reductions in federal revenue, not as increases in spending.

---

Which does what to deficit projections?

---

He's arguing semantics...

---

I'm arguing truth.

The tax code that was scored by CBO is the tax code that exists on Jan 1, 2026. The current tax rates expire on December 31st. The CBO is legally bound by what the law is, not by what you or Trump or Miller want it to be.

Even Miller has never argued that tax cuts are counted as spending by the CBO because he's not an idiot. He just thinks it's bogus because part of the bill extends those rates.

---

It's just semantics.

Even you have been *****ing about all the spending in this bill which you claim will increase the deficit.

But, there's NO spending in this bill that will increase the deficit.

The ONLY thing in the bill that will increase the bill is the tax cuts...

So, which is it? Is the spending in the bill going to increase the deficit or is the (predicted) reduction in tax revenue from tax cuts going to increase the deficit?

This, and when we understand that something like 90% of all medical expenses are spent on thos over 75 seeking to gain a few more years of life at the expense of their kids!

I am 68, my mom, dad, uncle, mother in law, father in law, and many more I know personally, have accumulated a minimum of $500 k of major surgeries or procedures and most multiple, all covered by SS or supplemental. This does not include after care stuff.

it is just a massive massive expense. No one wants talk about this.

Logos Stick said:

---

Ag with kids said:

---

Funky Winkerbean said:

---

Quote:

---

Tax cuts are scored as reductions in federal revenue, not as increases in spending.

---

Which does what to deficit projections?

---

He's arguing semantics...

---

I'm arguing truth.

The tax code that was scored by CBO is the tax code that exists on Jan 1, 2026. The current tax rates expire on December 31st. The CBO is legally bound by what the law is, not by what you or Trump or Miller want it to be.

Even Miller has never argued that tax cuts are counted as spending by the CBO because he's not an idiot. He just thinks it's bogus because part of the bill extends those rates.

---

CBO also legally bound to use an anemic GDP growth rate vs a more realistic GDP growth rate?

Extending what has been the status quo for 8 years should not be marked against a bill whilst completely ignoring the effects of the Laffer curve and ignoring loads of other data.

They also magically sunset entitlement costs and other funny math. They are a political organization and this has been known for years! But you die on the semantics, the misrepresentation, and the bad math just so long as it all fits your Trump hating narrative.

The rest of us will use terms appropriately, point out the bias of the CBO and use actual math and realistic market factors and GDP growth so we can speak informally an informed manner regarding the effects of the BBB.

One thing the BBB will do, it will shift populations from rural to large cities given the effects of rural hospitals simply shutting down services.

OPAG said:

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This, and when we understand that something like 90% of all medical expenses are spent on thos over 75 seeking to gain a few more years of life at the expense of their kids!

I am 68, my mom, dad, uncle, mother in law, father in law, and many more I know personally, have accumulated a minimum of $500 k of major surgeries or procedures and most multiple, all covered by SS or supplemental. This does not include after care stuff.

it is just a massive massive expense. No one wants talk about this.

---

My late wife's medical care in the last 2 years were billed close to $1 million to the hospital.

And this wasn't old age end of life care...it was care to get her back to functional. Unfortunately, later complications caused the sad ending.

Yeah - medical care is one of the largest expenses in the US budget - both government and private.

Ag with kids said:

---

Logos Stick said:

---

Ag with kids said:

---

Funky Winkerbean said:

---

Quote:

---

Tax cuts are scored as reductions in federal revenue, not as increases in spending.

---

Which does what to deficit projections?

---

He's arguing semantics...

---

I'm arguing truth.

The tax code that was scored by CBO is the tax code that exists on Jan 1, 2026. The current tax rates expire on December 31st. The CBO is legally bound by what the law is, not by what you or Trump or Miller want it to be.

Even Miller has never argued that tax cuts are counted as spending by the CBO because he's not an idiot. He just thinks it's bogus because part of the bill extends those rates.

---

It's just semantics.

Even you have been *****ing about all the spending in this bill which you claim will increase the deficit.

But, there's NO spending in this bill that will increase the deficit.

The ONLY thing in the bill that will increase the bill is the tax cuts...

So, which is it? Is the spending in the bill going to increase the deficit or is the (predicted) reduction in tax revenue from tax cuts going to increase the deficit?

---

The CBO does not score tax cuts as increased spending. It does not. Click your heels and repeat it 1000 times and you are wrong. It's not semantics.

I said there are no net spending cuts in this bill. Promises are not cuts. There will be another reconciliation bill next year and the promises will disappear.

The deficit will go up every year under Trump. The tax cuts will not be some magic bullet that will grow the GDP and increase tax revenue. I will bet you that the deficit rises under Trump every year. It's easy money.

Burpelson said:

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One thing the BBB will do, it will shift populations from rural to large cities given the effects of rural hospitals simply shutting down services.

---

First that shift has been happening for over 200 years in this country. We've been over 80% in suburbs and cities for a very long time. Second other than people that need consistent treatment for some specific reason do you actually know anyone that considers proximity to a hospital when making decisions on where to live? We move for proximity to work and family. Can't say I've ever worried about hospitals.

Logos Stick said:

---

Ag with kids said:

---

Logos Stick said:

---

Ag with kids said:

---

Funky Winkerbean said:

---

Quote:

---

Tax cuts are scored as reductions in federal revenue, not as increases in spending.

---

Which does what to deficit projections?

---

He's arguing semantics...

---

I'm arguing truth.

The tax code that was scored by CBO is the tax code that exists on Jan 1, 2026. The current tax rates expire on December 31st. The CBO is legally bound by what the law is, not by what you or Trump or Miller want it to be.

Even Miller has never argued that tax cuts are counted as spending by the CBO because he's not an idiot. He just thinks it's bogus because part of the bill extends those rates.

---

It's just semantics.

Even you have been *****ing about all the spending in this bill which you claim will increase the deficit.

But, there's NO spending in this bill that will increase the deficit.

The ONLY thing in the bill that will increase the bill is the tax cuts...

So, which is it? Is the spending in the bill going to increase the deficit or is the (predicted) reduction in tax revenue from tax cuts going to increase the deficit?

---

The CBO does not score tax cuts as increased spending. It does not. Click your heels and repeat it 1000 times and you are wrong. It's not semantics.

I said there are no net spending cuts in this bill. Promises are not cuts. There will be another reconciliation bill next year and the promises will disappear.

The deficit will go up every year under Trump. The tax cuts will not be some magic bullet that will grow the GDP and increase tax revenue. I will bet you that the deficit rises under Trump every year. It's easy money.

---

If I do not collect $10 on taxes and spend $10 I have a balanced budget. If I collect $20 and spend $10 I have a surplus of $10. If I collect $10 and spend $20 I have a $10 deficit. If I collect nothing and spend $20, I now have a $20 deficit.

So tax cuts by pure math increases a deficit dollar for dollar the SAME way additional spending does

Again, you have already been told you are tilting at semantic windmills, but whatever floats your boat. Trust that the rest of us understand the math.

And you ignore the Laffer curve which has been proven over and over and over and over and over and over again.

But think it's magic even though the TCJA proved it in spades just a few short years ago.

Part of the whole damn reason to get the bill passed by July 4th is to not make the same mistakes of waiting to long to pass substantial tax cuts as it takes a bit of time for everything to work itself through.

But if you think the bill is nothing but bad vibes then have at it. Just be prepared for many many many people to disagree with you.

flown-the-coop said:

---

Logos Stick said:

---

Ag with kids said:

---

Funky Winkerbean said:

---

Quote:

---

Tax cuts are scored as reductions in federal revenue, not as increases in spending.

---

Which does what to deficit projections?

---

He's arguing semantics...

---

I'm arguing truth.

The tax code that was scored by CBO is the tax code that exists on Jan 1, 2026. The current tax rates expire on December 31st. The CBO is legally bound by what the law is, not by what you or Trump or Miller want it to be.

Even Miller has never argued that tax cuts are counted as spending by the CBO because he's not an idiot. He just thinks it's bogus because part of the bill extends those rates.

---

CBO also legally bound to use an anemic GDP growth rate vs a more realistic GDP growth rate?

Extending what has been the status quo for 8 years should not be marked against a bill whilst completely ignoring the effects of the Laffer curve and ignoring loads of other data.

They also magically sunset entitlement costs and other funny math. They are a political organization and this has been known for years! But you die on the semantics, the misrepresentation, and the bad math just so long as it all fits your Trump hating narrative.

The rest of us will use terms appropriately, point out the bias of the CBO and use actual math and realistic market factors and GDP growth so we can speak informally an informed manner regarding the effects of the BBB.

---

I don't hate Trump, I just don't hang on his nut sack.

Explain to us in detail where we in end up on the Laffer curve. The deficit went up each year under Trump his first term, after his tax cuts. 17% and 24% iirc

I haven't seen you use actual math, realistic market factors or GDP growth. Can you show me?

what time is Trump signing the BBB!?!?

Right Side Broadcasting Network is unwatchable whenever Trump is not actually on it live...

No, I am getting in the pool and listening to patriotic music.

Google Laffer curve effects from TCJA and increased tax collections under Trump for information you seek to get you started.

Once you have some basic info, start a new thread and we can debated just how much additional tax revenue these cuts will generate and we can argue GDP growth factors and how off the CBO was regarding previous legislation.

LMCane said:

---

what time is Trump signing the BBB!?!?

Right Side Broadcasting Network is unwatchable whenever Trump is not actually on it live...

---

5pm et, 4 central I believe.

Logos Stick said:

---

flown-the-coop said:

---

Logos Stick said:

---

Ag with kids said:

---

Funky Winkerbean said:

---

Quote:

---

Tax cuts are scored as reductions in federal revenue, not as increases in spending.

---

Which does what to deficit projections?

---

He's arguing semantics...

---

I'm arguing truth.

The tax code that was scored by CBO is the tax code that exists on Jan 1, 2026. The current tax rates expire on December 31st. The CBO is legally bound by what the law is, not by what you or Trump or Miller want it to be.

Even Miller has never argued that tax cuts are counted as spending by the CBO because he's not an idiot. He just thinks it's bogus because part of the bill extends those rates.

---

CBO also legally bound to use an anemic GDP growth rate vs a more realistic GDP growth rate?

Extending what has been the status quo for 8 years should not be marked against a bill whilst completely ignoring the effects of the Laffer curve and ignoring loads of other data.

They also magically sunset entitlement costs and other funny math. They are a political organization and this has been known for years! But you die on the semantics, the misrepresentation, and the bad math just so long as it all fits your Trump hating narrative.

The rest of us will use terms appropriately, point out the bias of the CBO and use actual math and realistic market factors and GDP growth so we can speak informally an informed manner regarding the effects of the BBB.

---

I don't hate Trump, I just don't hang on his nut sack.

Explain to us in detail where we in end up on the Laffer curve. The deficit went up each year under Trump his first term, after his tax cuts. 17% and 24% iirc

I haven't seen you use actual math, realistic market factors or GDP growth. Can you show me?

---

Revenue went up in the wake of those tax rate cuts which ultimately means spending went up more. We have a spending problem. There's no other way to look at this. We can't tax our way to a balanced budget. The math doesn't work.

flown-the-coop said:

---

No, I am getting in the pool and listening to patriotic music.

Google Laffer curve effects from TCJA and increased tax collections under Trump for information you seek to get you started.

Once you have some basic info, start a new thread and we can debated just how much additional tax revenue these cuts will generate and we can argue GDP growth factors and how off the CBO was regarding previous legislation.

---

Can you explain what happened last time on the Laffer curve with the deficit and the tax cuts? There is actual data out there. You can use AI in the pool to generate nonsense. Phones work in the pool. Just don't put them under the water.

LOYAL AG said:

---

Burpelson said:

---

One thing the BBB will do, it will shift populations from rural to large cities given the effects of rural hospitals simply shutting down services.

---

First that shift has been happening for over 200 years in this country. We've been over 80% in suburbs and cities for a very long time. Second other than people that need consistent treatment for some specific reason do you actually know anyone that considers proximity to a hospital when making decisions on where to live? We move for proximity to work and family. Can't say I've ever worried about hospitals.

---

Actually rural healthcare in many areas has been improving through remote telehealth advancements.

Even the snarl response about a farmer being impaled is off base as it ignores what can be done e by training locals in rudimentary trauma care and similar that can then be paired with the explosive growth in medical air transport, likely to explode even more with unmanned air transport or small VToL craft.

Mine works underwater and I think you have had enough of my attention for the day.

Go kick a puppy or something and get your frustrations out another way.

Ag with kids said:

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OPAG said:

---

This, and when we understand that something like 90% of all medical expenses are spent on thos over 75 seeking to gain a few more years of life at the expense of their kids!

I am 68, my mom, dad, uncle, mother in law, father in law, and many more I know personally, have accumulated a minimum of $500 k of major surgeries or procedures and most multiple, all covered by SS or supplemental. This does not include after care stuff.

it is just a massive massive expense. No one wants talk about this.

---

My late wife's medical care in the last 2 years were billed close to $1 million to the hospital.

And this wasn't old age end of life care...it was care to get her back to functional. Unfortunately, later complications caused the sad ending.

Yeah - medical care is one of the largest expenses in the US budget - both government and private.

---

Medical expenses do not need to be funded by the federal government? It should be a private expense. That would go along way to balancing the budget. Private health insurance should have paid the lion's share of that 1 million.

Tom Fox said:

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Ag with kids said:

---

OPAG said:

---

This, and when we understand that something like 90% of all medical expenses are spent on thos over 75 seeking to gain a few more years of life at the expense of their kids!

I am 68, my mom, dad, uncle, mother in law, father in law, and many more I know personally, have accumulated a minimum of $500 k of major surgeries or procedures and most multiple, all covered by SS or supplemental. This does not include after care stuff.

it is just a massive massive expense. No one wants talk about this.

---

My late wife's medical care in the last 2 years were billed close to $1 million to the hospital.

And this wasn't old age end of life care...it was care to get her back to functional. Unfortunately, later complications caused the sad ending.

Yeah - medical care is one of the largest expenses in the US budget - both government and private.

---

Medical expenses do not need to be funded by the federal government? It should be a private expense. That would go along way to balancing the budget. Private health insurance should have paid the lion's share of that 1 million.

---

Gov is also the reason its so expensive

samurai_science said:

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Tom Fox said:

---

Ag with kids said:

---

OPAG said:

---

This, and when we understand that something like 90% of all medical expenses are spent on thos over 75 seeking to gain a few more years of life at the expense of their kids!

I am 68, my mom, dad, uncle, mother in law, father in law, and many more I know personally, have accumulated a minimum of $500 k of major surgeries or procedures and most multiple, all covered by SS or supplemental. This does not include after care stuff.

it is just a massive massive expense. No one wants talk about this.

---

My late wife's medical care in the last 2 years were billed close to $1 million to the hospital.

And this wasn't old age end of life care...it was care to get her back to functional. Unfortunately, later complications caused the sad ending.

Yeah - medical care is one of the largest expenses in the US budget - both government and private.

---

Medical expenses do not need to be funded by the federal government? It should be a private expense. That would go along way to balancing the budget. Private health insurance should have paid the lion's share of that 1 million.

---

Gov is also the reason its so expensive

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Of course. Get it out of healthcare and wait for the equilibrium.