4 said:

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Ducks4brkfast said:

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Deputy Travis Junior said:

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I believe in low taxes not just as a matter of policy, but as an ethical imperative, and even I'm struggling to justify tax cuts in the face of $2 trillion deficits. This bill is "kick the can down the road and let our kids deal with the consequences" bull*****

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Yep. We're cutting taxes and spending more money than we bring in. Insanity.

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By cutting taxes, we will bring more money in.
Clearly not more than we are spending, but we will bring more in. That has been proven time and time again.

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Deputy Travis Junior said:

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I believe in low taxes not just as a matter of policy, but as an ethical imperative, and even I'm struggling to justify tax cuts in the face of $2 trillion deficits. This bill is "kick the can down the road and let our kids deal with the consequences" bull*****

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Malibu said:

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Deputy Travis Junior said:

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I believe in low taxes not just as a matter of policy, but as an ethical imperative, and even I'm struggling to justify tax cuts in the face of $2 trillion deficits. This bill is "kick the can down the road and let our kids deal with the consequences" bull*****

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It's no longer our kids. Unless you're on your way out, WE are the kids that will have to deal with the fallout. Real estate, precious metals, farmland, and multinational high cap firms that pay dividends are your best friends right now.

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Fitch said:

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Probably worth acknowledging that the only path to truly resolve the national debt from just spending cuts is to completely (or nearly completely) axe social security and medicare. As in delete them from the budget or just go ahead and put a cut off on them that anyone under "XX" age will not be eligible to receive payments while maintaining the tax through the death of all current recipients.

The expansion of those programs under the Greatest Generation and Boomers ~80% of the reason for the debt levels we have, with the last 20% being Bretton Woods and the monetary system we created which allows us to run perpetual deficits and accumulate debt.

Having said that, strictly cutting the spending is one way but not the only way to shrink the expanding debt. Certainly the quickest and most straight forward, but GDP growth in excess of debt growth also gets to the same end over a longer term and inflating the debts way is the other, nuclear, option.

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Monday, on news of the BBB, 30 yr US treasuries rose to 5% and 10 yr US treasuries rose to 4.52%.

That’s the price WE pay to finance the national debt when old notes mature.

We’re approaching $1.5 trillion of annual interest payments… over $4,000 per US citizen per year.

— Thomas Massie (@RepThomasMassie) May 20, 2025

WestAustinAg said:

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Fitch said:

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Probably worth acknowledging that the only path to truly resolve the national debt from just spending cuts is to completely (or nearly completely) axe social security and medicare. As in delete them from the budget or just go ahead and put a cut off on them that anyone under "XX" age will not be eligible to receive payments while maintaining the tax through the death of all current recipients.

The expansion of those programs under the Greatest Generation and Boomers ~80% of the reason for the debt levels we have, with the last 20% being Bretton Woods and the monetary system we created which allows us to run perpetual deficits and accumulate debt.

Having said that, strictly cutting the spending is one way but not the only way to shrink the expanding debt. Certainly the quickest and most straight forward, but GDP growth in excess of debt growth also gets to the same end over a longer term and inflating the debts way is the other, nuclear, option.

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Allow SS to grow with the market. Invest it in relatively aafe marketable securities and bonds. That solves 90% of the problem right there. Delay SS until 65. Then in 10 years push it to 70.

Tie work programs to Medicare.

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WestAustinAg said:

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Lower taxes spur growth. Growth powers the economy. And the government brings in hundreds of billions more in tax revenue even though tax rates are lower. This happens every time.

We need really smart tax cuts (or just continuing them instead of stopping them). And we need to massively cut government expenses. Massively. Like 3 or 4 trillion a year. Starting right now.

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YouBet said:

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WestAustinAg said:

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Lower taxes spur growth. Growth powers the economy. And the government brings in hundreds of billions more in tax revenue even though tax rates are lower. This happens every time.

We need really smart tax cuts (or just continuing them instead of stopping them). And we need to massively cut government expenses. Massively. Like 3 or 4 trillion a year. Starting right now.

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Sure but we aren't making any spending cuts so the tax cuts will have to drum up $3-4T out of thin air to cover all of the increased spending. Cutting taxes for food servers and people on overtime is not going to bring in $3-4T.

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TRM said:

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Moody's downgraded the rating on US credit and too much spending.

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TRM said:

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Are you going to call out the grandstanders in the SALT Caucus?

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flown-the-coop said:

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TRM said:

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Moody's downgraded the rating on US credit and too much spending.

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The idea of Moody giving a credit rating on US debt is beyond comical.

I am sure they will offer Bessent a "repair your credit" program for an ongoing fee.

All credit reporting agencies are a ****ing scam and those who own and run them should be in jail.

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Jeeper79 said:

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flown-the-coop said:

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TRM said:

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Moody's downgraded the rating on US credit and too much spending.

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The idea of Moody giving a credit rating on US debt is beyond comical.

I am sure they will offer Bessent a "repair your credit" program for an ongoing fee.

All credit reporting agencies are a ****ing scam and those who own and run them should be in jail.

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Oh brother…

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flown-the-coop said:

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Jeeper79 said:

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flown-the-coop said:

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TRM said:

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Moody's downgraded the rating on US credit and too much spending.

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The idea of Moody giving a credit rating on US debt is beyond comical.

I am sure they will offer Bessent a "repair your credit" program for an ongoing fee.

All credit reporting agencies are a ****ing scam and those who own and run them should be in jail.

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Oh brother…

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I take it you have never dealt with any of these agencies?

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Quote:

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I take it you have never dealt with any of these agencies?

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samurai_science said:

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Roy is the only one worth a damn and I hope this bill fails

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Windy City Ag said:

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Quote:

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I take it you have never dealt with any of these agencies?

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He is just pointing out your degree of ignorance regarding consumer credit agencies like TransUnion, Experian, and Fair Isaac (FICO) and corporate credit research and ratings bureaus like Moody's, S&P, Kroll, Morningstar DBRS, etc.

Big insurers, pension funds, and institutional investors rely heavily (for better or worse) on credit agencies for scoring the degree of default risk in their bond holdings. There was a time to be angry at them . . .2008 . . . but in this case they are just stating the obvious and anyone that claims bias in this conclusion is either ignorant or delusional.

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Windy City Ag said:

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Quote:

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I take it you have never dealt with any of these agencies?

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He is just pointing out your degree of ignorance regarding consumer credit agencies like TransUnion, Experian, and Fair Isaac (FICO) and corporate credit research and ratings bureaus like Moody's, S&P, Kroll, Morningstar DBRS, etc.

Big insurers, pension funds, and institutional investors rely heavily (for better or worse) on credit agencies for scoring the degree of default risk in their bond holdings. There was a time to be angry at them . . .2008 . . . but in this case they are just stating the obvious and anyone that claims bias in this conclusion is either ignorant or delusional.

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BigRobSA said:

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samurai_science said:

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Roy is the only one worth a damn and I hope this bill fails

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Him, Cruz, Lee, Paul, Kennedy ...there are like 6 or 7 conservatives in all of Congress. Everyone else is worthless and should be primaried.

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WestAustinAg said:

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Lower taxes spur growth. Growth powers the economy. And the government brings in hundreds of billions more in tax revenue even though tax rates are lower. This happens every time.

We need really smart tax cuts (or just continuing them instead of stopping them). And we need to massively cut government expenses. Massively. Like 3 or 4 trillion a year. Starting right now.

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flown-the-coop said:

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Windy City Ag said:

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Quote:

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I take it you have never dealt with any of these agencies?

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He is just pointing out your degree of ignorance regarding consumer credit agencies like TransUnion, Experian, and Fair Isaac (FICO) and corporate credit research and ratings bureaus like Moody's, S&P, Kroll, Morningstar DBRS, etc.

Big insurers, pension funds, and institutional investors rely heavily (for better or worse) on credit agencies for scoring the degree of default risk in their bond holdings. There was a time to be angry at them . . .2008 . . . but in this case they are just stating the obvious and anyone that claims bias in this conclusion is either ignorant or delusional.

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So since 2008 they cleaned up their act and now only reserve their hot takes to downgrade the US sovereign credit rating? Why now?

I think it's funny folks continue to put faith and trust in such flawed institutions. They are not independent, they are all beholden to the same geopolitical forces to start, hold, or change a narrative. They all make money serving the same industries and institutions they supposedly serve. Fine, but that doesn't make them independent in any sense of the word.

Next time a see a commercial for Charmin #1 rated toilet paper I can be assured a totally independent rating agency like Moody's was behind my choice of what to wipe my arse with. Or, I can know that their report is worth even less than my Charmin.

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flown-the-coop said:

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Meeting on Capitol Hill over. Mike Johnson still looks like he could use a productive bowel movement as Trump addresses the press.

Trump indicates it was a good meeting. Poor reporter asks about reports that Trump said he was "losing his patience", and he lit into him in great Trump fashion. Told the reporter to go back to his source, if there really was one, and call them a liar.

He's pretty turnt up, so maybe the meeting did not go as well as he says. Mike is off camera, hopefully they are getting him a diaper or a drink. He looked miserable.

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Malibu said:

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WestAustinAg said:

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Lower taxes spur growth. Growth powers the economy. And the government brings in hundreds of billions more in tax revenue even though tax rates are lower. This happens every time.

We need really smart tax cuts (or just continuing them instead of stopping them). And we need to massively cut government expenses. Massively. Like 3 or 4 trillion a year. Starting right now.

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If you know the appropriate lowered tax rate that will definitely increase real government revenue, please share it with the class . I'm not a higher taxes ideologue, but our current situation demands that we continue to at least maintain current revenue. We can't shink revenue for ideological reasons and hope to pay off our debt. That's an argument for the future when we are on a sustainable path.

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Jeeper79 said:

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flown-the-coop said:

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Windy City Ag said:

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Quote:

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I take it you have never dealt with any of these agencies?

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He is just pointing out your degree of ignorance regarding consumer credit agencies like TransUnion, Experian, and Fair Isaac (FICO) and corporate credit research and ratings bureaus like Moody's, S&P, Kroll, Morningstar DBRS, etc.

Big insurers, pension funds, and institutional investors rely heavily (for better or worse) on credit agencies for scoring the degree of default risk in their bond holdings. There was a time to be angry at them . . .2008 . . . but in this case they are just stating the obvious and anyone that claims bias in this conclusion is either ignorant or delusional.

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So since 2008 they cleaned up their act and now only reserve their hot takes to downgrade the US sovereign credit rating? Why now?

I think it's funny folks continue to put faith and trust in such flawed institutions. They are not independent, they are all beholden to the same geopolitical forces to start, hold, or change a narrative. They all make money serving the same industries and institutions they supposedly serve. Fine, but that doesn't make them independent in any sense of the word.

Next time a see a commercial for Charmin #1 rated toilet paper I can be assured a totally independent rating agency like Moody's was behind my choice of what to wipe my arse with. Or, I can know that their report is worth even less than my Charmin.

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It is literally Moody's job to call these sorts of things. It is their product. If you owned a company, would you intentionally put out garbage? No. Because it would be shooting yourself in the face. And if you do it long enough, you lose the whole business.

You say they should be in jail. For what? Saying something you didn't like?

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Quote:

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So since 2008 they cleaned up their act and now only reserve their hot takes to downgrade the US sovereign credit rating? Why now?

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Quote:

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PWBM now estimates that conventional primary deficits will increase by $3,175 billion ($3.2 trillion) over the 10-year budget window.

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