Yes. And I'd bet the USCG already has it.torrid said:
I assume ships have the equivalent of the voice and flight data recorders on airplanes?
If you look at the AIS plotter, the Dali veered just a few degrees off the main channel, and bam.
Francis Scott key bridge struck by boat
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Last: 19 days ago by IndividualFreedom
If you look at the AIS plotter, the Dali veered just a few degrees off the main channel, and bam.
not yet.BassCowboy33 said:Yes. And I'd bet the USCG already has it.torrid said:
I assume ships have the equivalent of the voice and flight data recorders on airplanes?
If you look at the AIS plotter, the Dali veered just a few degrees off the main channel, and bam.
press conference going on now.
no physical contact with the boat yet. all contact with the boat so far has just been boat to USCG radio chat
Psycho Bunny said:
To the idiot pilotling the ship
Maybe so, but there are a million things that could have gone wrong on a ship that led to this without the pilot being an idiot.
Quite surprising. It's usually the first thing done after an accident involving a ship, often within a couple of hours. Very standard pull. The only thing I could imagine is that the vessel is in a precarious physical setup, which I guess is possible with rescue going on around it..C@LAg said:not yet.BassCowboy33 said:Yes. And I'd bet the USCG already has it.torrid said:
I assume ships have the equivalent of the voice and flight data recorders on airplanes?
If you look at the AIS plotter, the Dali veered just a few degrees off the main channel, and bam.
press conference going on now.
no physical contact with the boat yet. all contact with the boat so far has just been boat to USCG radio chat
Yeah, just based on the video, I wouldn't guess pilot error. Even at a slow speed, it takes a 980 ft ship a long time to stop. It'll take even longer at shallow depths.Sea Speed said:Psycho Bunny said:
To the idiot pilotling the ship
Maybe so, but there are a million things that could have gone wrong on a ship that led to this without the pilot being an idiot.
yeah. they said rescue is top priority right now. using ROVs and side scan sonar to look for cars (I presume for victims) as well as get an early idea of the debris field.BassCowboy33 said:
Quite surprising. It's usually the first thing done after an accident involving a ship, often within a couple of hours. Very standard pull. The only thing I could imagine is that the vessel is in a precarious physical setup, which I guess is possible with rescue going on around it..
air support is overhead helping look; no assessment yet if there is an oil spill or not but the smell is there. were waiting on more daylight to assess.
I'm now reading the Dali has a hull breach on the bow. So, that explains that.BassCowboy33 said:Quite surprising. It's usually the first thing done after an accident involving a ship, often within a couple of hours. Very standard pull. The only thing I could imagine is that the vessel is in a precarious physical setup, which I guess is possible with rescue going on around it..C@LAg said:not yet.BassCowboy33 said:Yes. And I'd bet the USCG already has it.torrid said:
I assume ships have the equivalent of the voice and flight data recorders on airplanes?
If you look at the AIS plotter, the Dali veered just a few degrees off the main channel, and bam.
press conference going on now.
no physical contact with the boat yet. all contact with the boat so far has just been boat to USCG radio chat
If it's on the forward section, an oil spill is not likely. Fuel is located at the stern. But, again, a grounding might cause a leak? In that case, you'd be pushing out HFO or MDO.C@LAg said:yeah. they said rescue is top priority right now. using ROVs and side scan sonar to look for cars (I presume for victims) as well as get an early idea of the debris field.BassCowboy33 said:
Quite surprising. It's usually the first thing done after an accident involving a ship, often within a couple of hours. Very standard pull. The only thing I could imagine is that the vessel is in a precarious physical setup, which I guess is possible with rescue going on around it..
air support is overhead helping look; no assessment yet if there is an oil spill or not but the smell is there. were waiting on more daylight to assess.
Foreverconservative said:Yeah I did notice all the lights on the ship go off for about three seconds before the impact, however the ship has a backup uninterruptible power supply, or UPS, that can provide power and automation in case of emergency. SO I'm not really buying power loss yet.C@LAg said:it looks like it loses power at one point, and then the drifting/turn into the bridgeForeverconservative said:
Is it just me or does it not appear like there was a course correction to run directly into the bridge pylon?
so engine was still puffing generating pressure, driving it, but the loss of power may have doomed it.
The ship absolutely does NOT have an automatic UPS that can power the propulsion on the ship. The ship has an emergency diesel generator to power specific things on board on the emergency bus.
ts5641 said:
Yeah it appears it turned right into it.
The rudder could have very well been stuck at a certain rudder order depending on what the helmsman was doing at the time. It would not have been a very large rudder order because as noted the wind was not blowing and there was not a bend in the channel, but just a few degrees can make a difference, obviously.
Never once did I say anything about propulsion, I said automation.Sea Speed said:Foreverconservative said:Yeah I did notice all the lights on the ship go off for about three seconds before the impact, however the ship has a backup uninterruptible power supply, or UPS, that can provide power and automation in case of emergency. SO I'm not really buying power loss yet.C@LAg said:it looks like it loses power at one point, and then the drifting/turn into the bridgeForeverconservative said:
Is it just me or does it not appear like there was a course correction to run directly into the bridge pylon?
so engine was still puffing generating pressure, driving it, but the loss of power may have doomed it.
The ship absolutely does NOT have an automatic UPS that can power the propulsion on the ship. The ship has an emergency diesel generator to power specific things on board on the emergency bus.
“Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience" - Mark Twain
— ₿aller.eth (@8INK5) March 26, 2024
“Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience" - Mark Twain
nvm - some of the other posts I read clarified my question
DON'T TREAD ON ME
BassCowboy33 said:Quite surprising. It's usually the first thing done after an accident involving a ship, often within a couple of hours. Very standard pull. The only thing I could imagine is that the vessel is in a precarious physical setup, which I guess is possible with rescue going on around it..C@LAg said:not yet.BassCowboy33 said:Yes. And I'd bet the USCG already has it.torrid said:
I assume ships have the equivalent of the voice and flight data recorders on airplanes?
If you look at the AIS plotter, the Dali veered just a few degrees off the main channel, and bam.
press conference going on now.
no physical contact with the boat yet. all contact with the boat so far has just been boat to USCG radio chat
The captain probably ensured that they data is saved but no one has been on board to retrieve it. USCG not being there yet doesn't surprise me as they are govt workers and this happened outside of business hours.
Foreverconservative said:Never once did I say anything about propulsion, I said automation.Sea Speed said:Foreverconservative said:Yeah I did notice all the lights on the ship go off for about three seconds before the impact, however the ship has a backup uninterruptible power supply, or UPS, that can provide power and automation in case of emergency. SO I'm not really buying power loss yet.C@LAg said:it looks like it loses power at one point, and then the drifting/turn into the bridgeForeverconservative said:
Is it just me or does it not appear like there was a course correction to run directly into the bridge pylon?
so engine was still puffing generating pressure, driving it, but the loss of power may have doomed it.
The ship absolutely does NOT have an automatic UPS that can power the propulsion on the ship. The ship has an emergency diesel generator to power specific things on board on the emergency bus.
The EDG isn't an instant on thing and the only UPS that a ship has may be on cargo consoles or computers. I'm not sure what any automation would do here, anyways. When a ship has a blackout, it is just that.
Ships also have emergency steering capabilities, but if this happened inside a couple of minutes it doesn't matter. Commercial ships don't man aft steering anyways.
It seems relatively straightforward to me that the ship lost power and hit the bridge. Show me 10 pilots and I will show you 10 guys who have been on a ship that lost power and/or steering while in transit.
What will be interesting is what was the cause and how much did the captain know about the propensity of the ship to go dark, or were there any leading indicators that this was going to happen.
A lot of Captains will hide things from pilots or others boarding ships like myself and the only time we hear about them is when something goes wrong.
Quote:
The bridge spans the Patapsco River and carries an estimated 11.5 million vehicles annually. In this collapse, the only shipping lane in and out of the port was severed.
Baltimore is the most inland port on the East Coast and is connected to the I-95 highway network. With no commercial vessels sailing in and out of port anytime soon, this is catastrophic for port operations and could spark supply chain snarls in the Mid-Atlantic and Northeast. We suspect inbound vessels are rerouting sails this morning.
According to the Maryland government's website, the Port of Baltimore handled over 52 million tons of international cargo valued at more than $80 billion last year, ranking it as the ninth busiest port in the United States. The data shows that the port handled 847,158 autos and light trucks in 2023, the most of any US port. The port also handles farm and construction machinery, sugar, gypsum, and coal.
The port supports 15,330 direct jobs and 139,180 jobs in Maryland, according to the Maryland government's website.
Baltimore Mayor Brandon Scott's office posted on X:https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/watch-huge-bridge-baltimore-collapses-after-container-ship-strikeQuote:
"I'm aware of and en route to the incident at the Key Bridge. I have been in contact with Baltimore Fire Chief James Wallace, Gov. Wes Moore (and the county executives of Baltimore and Anne Arundel counties). Emergency personnel are on scene, and efforts are underway."
Baltimore is about to get a GIANT stimulus check from bid daddy Biden..........along with a massive insurance settlement from whoever underwrote that container ship.
Sea Speed said:ts5641 said:
Yeah it appears it turned right into it.
The rudder could have very well been stuck at a certain rudder order depending on what the helmsman was doing at the time. It would not have been a very large rudder order because as noted the wind was not blowing and there was not a bend in the channel, but just a few degrees can make a difference, obviously.
We're probably talking 2-3 degrees.
Sea Speed said:BassCowboy33 said:Quite surprising. It's usually the first thing done after an accident involving a ship, often within a couple of hours. Very standard pull. The only thing I could imagine is that the vessel is in a precarious physical setup, which I guess is possible with rescue going on around it..C@LAg said:not yet.BassCowboy33 said:Yes. And I'd bet the USCG already has it.torrid said:
I assume ships have the equivalent of the voice and flight data recorders on airplanes?
If you look at the AIS plotter, the Dali veered just a few degrees off the main channel, and bam.
press conference going on now.
no physical contact with the boat yet. all contact with the boat so far has just been boat to USCG radio chat
The captain probably ensured that they data is saved but no one has been on board to retrieve it. USCG not being there yet doesn't surprise me as they are govt workers and this happened outside of business hours.
This got a giggle out of me.
BassCowboy33 said:Sea Speed said:ts5641 said:
Yeah it appears it turned right into it.
The rudder could have very well been stuck at a certain rudder order depending on what the helmsman was doing at the time. It would not have been a very large rudder order because as noted the wind was not blowing and there was not a bend in the channel, but just a few degrees can make a difference, obviously.
We're probably talking 2-3 degrees.
Yep thats about my guess. One other thing not mentioned is the current. I assume the ship had a draft of 8-15 meters, but probably like 10 to 12. Thats a building underwater getting pushed on by the flood or ebb. If it was slack water then this is moot. If not though, that is even more potentially working against the folks on the ship.
News reports this morning say the lights on the ship went out two minutes prior to the crash and they are speculating that the ship lost all power. Apparently a harbor pilot was at the helm so will be interesting when we find out the details of the actual cause.
Frank Sobotka when he heard the news:
Bill Rawls says this happened on the wrong side of the bridge. McNulty is mad for sure.
Bill Rawls says this happened on the wrong side of the bridge. McNulty is mad for sure.
bonfarr said:
News reports this morning say the lights on the ship went out two minutes prior to the crash and they are speculating that the ship lost all power. Apparently a harbor pilot was at the helm so will be interesting when we find out the details of the actual cause.
There was 100% a pilot at the helm. I'm also about 100% sure it wouldn't have made a difference. You lose power, you're pretty much at the mercy of the gods.
Al Bula said:
Frank Sobotka when he heard the news:
Bill Rawls says this happened on the wrong side of the bridge. McNulty is mad for sure.
This definitely crossed my mind
BassCowboy33 said:I'm now reading the Dali has a hull breach on the bow. So, that explains that.BassCowboy33 said:Quite surprising. It's usually the first thing done after an accident involving a ship, often within a couple of hours. Very standard pull. The only thing I could imagine is that the vessel is in a precarious physical setup, which I guess is possible with rescue going on around it..C@LAg said:not yet.BassCowboy33 said:Yes. And I'd bet the USCG already has it.torrid said:
I assume ships have the equivalent of the voice and flight data recorders on airplanes?
If you look at the AIS plotter, the Dali veered just a few degrees off the main channel, and bam.
press conference going on now.
no physical contact with the boat yet. all contact with the boat so far has just been boat to USCG radio chat
So, iceberg? Case closed?
BassCowboy33 said:bonfarr said:
News reports this morning say the lights on the ship went out two minutes prior to the crash and they are speculating that the ship lost all power. Apparently a harbor pilot was at the helm so will be interesting when we find out the details of the actual cause.
There was 100% a pilot at the helm. I'm also about 100% sure it wouldn't have made a difference. You lose power, you're pretty much at the mercy of the gods.
If they see a danger of collision with the bridge can the ship drop anchor if they had no power? Would that brake the ship?
bonfarr said:
News reports this morning say the lights on the ship went out two minutes prior to the crash and they are speculating that the ship lost all power. Apparently a harbor pilot was at the helm so will be interesting when we find out the details of the actual cause.
Point of clarification, pilot has the conn, helmsman is at the helm. When you have the helm you're actively steering and pilots are only giving rudder commands and engine orders, known as conning the ship.
does holding your hand outside the car window while driving stop your car?bonfarr said:
If they see a danger of collision with the bridge can the ship drop anchor if they had no power? Would that brake the ship?
bonfarr said:BassCowboy33 said:bonfarr said:
News reports this morning say the lights on the ship went out two minutes prior to the crash and they are speculating that the ship lost all power. Apparently a harbor pilot was at the helm so will be interesting when we find out the details of the actual cause.
There was 100% a pilot at the helm. I'm also about 100% sure it wouldn't have made a difference. You lose power, you're pretty much at the mercy of the gods.
If they see a danger of collision with the bridge can the ship drop anchor if they had no power? Would that brake the ship?
Yes you can and it absolutely is an emergency maneuver but 2 minutes isn't enough time for it to have done anything here.
C@LAg said:does holding your hand outside the car window while driving stop your car?bonfarr said:
If they see a danger of collision with the bridge can the ship drop anchor if they had no power? Would that brake the ship?
In some of the videos there's clearly a fireball in and around the right most bridge pylon when its sections come down. Is there a fuel line or some sort on that bridge or is that fuel from unlucky vehicles?
Actually, the harbor pilot could likely not be at fault at all but at minimum his career is likely over and they may try to put him in jail. He is in an advisory role and the captain of the ship is in full control and responsibility.Psycho Bunny said:
To the idiot pilotling the ship
I feel for the pilot as he could be a victim of being assigned a POS ship with a POS 3rd world captain and crew that failed at the absolutely worst time.
i meant it as illustrative, not condescending.El Hombre Mas Guapo said:C@LAg said:does holding your hand outside the car window while driving stop your car?bonfarr said:
If they see a danger of collision with the bridge can the ship drop anchor if they had no power? Would that brake the ship?
but the huge mass of a boat like this, and one fully loaded, is not going to stop on a dime. or a quarter, or a silver dollar, even at the relatively slow speeds they would be doing in the harbor vs out in the open ocean.
🚨#BREAKING: Morning Daylight reveals the aftermath of the mass casualty event of the Scott Key Bridge collapse
— R A W S A L E R T S (@rawsalerts) March 26, 2024
📌#Baltimore | #Maryland
Watch As morning daylight approaches, it reveals the devastating aftermath of an early morning incident after a large cargo ship from… pic.twitter.com/zzXBuUB5m0
It's hard to imagine the size of these ships when they are under way. Those containers are 40' long x 8' wide x 8' 6" high.
There is a pilot that posts here who said dropping anchor is the first thing they do when power is lost. May not help, but won't hurt.
Texasclipper said:Actually, the harbor pilot could likely not be at fault at all but at minimum his career is likely over and they may try to put him in jail. He is in an advisory role and the captain of the ship is in full control and responsibility.Psycho Bunny said:
To the idiot pilotling the ship
I feel for the pilot as he likely is a victim of bad luck.
Definitely bad luck but I'm not so sure his career is over. A pilot in an area most of us are around daily killed a guy 2 or 3 years ago and is still trucking. As long as the guy wasn't drunk and didn't do anything they can really hammer blame on, I would bet this gets pinned on Captain and chief engineer of the ship.
This is of course assuming no pilot error. Pilots sometimes seem to have a magic shield of protection. I was with a couple on the phone with another pilot like 10 minutes after the ship he was on ran aground. The conversation was funny and eye opening. As you mentioned, being in an advisory capacity really helps. And I get it now because I board ships in an advisory capacity now too, and do most of the stuff that pilots do, and a bunch they don't. I'm glad i don't have overall responsibility.
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