If I understand it, the claim is that nobody under their umbrella did anything to cause the accident. They are willing to give up what they can get for the ship.

The onus is now on anyone who was damaged to prove that there was some negligence or incompetence in order to get anything else.

What we looking at is typical of every limitation action and to be expected here.

Stat Monitor Repairman said:

---

What we looking at is typical of every limitation action and to be expected here.

---

Oh I know that...it's still ballsy to claim that it "wasn't me".

The ol' "Somebody did something".

Very high stakes riding on the outcome of the investigation. We looking at the difference between $44 million and ~$3 billion here with specifics surrounding causation being outcome determinative. No way to predict how this will play out until we get more facts.

Stat Monitor Repairman said:

---

Very high stakes riding on the outcome of the investigation. We looking at the difference between $44 million and ~$3 billion here with specifics surrounding causation being outcome determinative. No way to predict how this will play out until we get more facts.

---

And these cases will likely take years to unravel and resolve.

Ag with kids said:

---

Stat Monitor Repairman said:

---

What we looking at is typical of every limitation action and to be expected here.

---

Oh I know that...it's still ballsy to claim that it "wasn't me".

---

Go read carefully. They didn't say, "It wasn't me," they said that it wasn't an act of neglect on their part or anyone under the umbrella. They're effectively calling it an act of God and saying they did everything they were supposed to and operated according to established standards and procedures and they shouldn't be held liable for the full extent of the damages.

I think they deliberately avoided announcing that on April 1st.

Ag with kids said:

---

Stat Monitor Repairman said:

---

What we looking at is typical of every limitation action and to be expected here.

---

Oh I know that...it's still ballsy to claim that it "wasn't me".

---

The Shaggy defense.

Quote:

---

So, I guess the bridge just fell down all by itself and the boat came over to help out?

---

Guessing from your username that you really do have kids. I'm surprised, nay shocked, that you're not more familiar with the principles involved with things spontaneously breaking. Just because an individual and/or ginormous ocean vessel was the only party anywhere near the broken cookie jar and/or collapsed 50+ year old steel span bridge does NOT implicate the nearby party in any way, shape, or form.

Stat Monitor Repairman said:

---

Very high stakes riding on the outcome of the investigation. We looking at the difference between $44 million and ~$3 billion here with specifics surrounding causation being outcome determinative. No way to predict how this will play out until we get more facts.

---

The left has corrupted every part of government , look at the FBI !! The freaking FBI, the worlds premiere/ world leading law enforcement agency for decades that took only the best. Now, it is basically the Stasi !! I have zero faith in this investigation. If the left /DNC had an fault in this, it will be covered up !!!

The FBI wasn't even good in the 1920's.

The head of the NTSB was originally appointed by Donald Trump and a unanimous Senate to the NTSB board and then "promoted" by Biden.

NTSB's career staff are largely a bunch of math, science, and engineering nerds who aren't there because they like or enjoy politics. As has been said, they do thorough and good work. And their work is important.

agent-maroon said:

---

Quote:

---

So, I guess the bridge just fell down all by itself and the boat came over to help out?

---

Guessing from your username that you really do have kids. I'm surprised, nay shocked, that you're not more familiar with the principles involved with things spontaneously breaking. Just because an individual and/or ginormous ocean vessel was the only party anywhere near the broken cookie jar and/or collapsed 50+ year old steel span bridge does NOT implicate the nearby party in any way, shape, or form.

---

I have 9 kids and NONE of them EVER were guilty of ANYTHING if you asked.

So, I just punished all of them. They were all guilty of SOMETHING I didn't catch.

Ha! I bet my wife (also a maritime lawyer) the limitation would plead $40-50 million as the liability cap. She took the over.

Having participated in a couple of NTSB investigations and many, many USCG ones, I have some deeper thoughts on the query about the length it takes the NTSB to investigate but for starters- the NTSB will designate Responsible Parties (not a legal conclusion but an investigation designation), evidence will be gathered and produced, experts will be identified, depositions and other statements will be taken from fact witnesses and experts, the RPs will be allowed to present certain witnesses, additional RPs may be added, at some point a formal hearing will take place, the NtSB will issue a draft report to the RPs who will be allowed to comment, the comments may or may not be adopted, the final report will be prepared and may be circulated to USCG as a courtesy, and then the report will be posted publicly. Interestingly, unlike USCG reports which are completely inadmissible in court, the factual portions of an NTSB report generally are admissible.

As others have noted, the NTSB investigations are very detailed. There is some history here with the NTSB and the vessel lawyer, who is a friend and highly capable. He will defend his client vigorously and as a graduate of SUNY Maritime has sailed and is experienced. It will be interesting to see how this shakes out as it will all turn on the maintenance history and the cause of the power failure.

ABATTBQ11 said:

---

Ag with kids said:

---

Stat Monitor Repairman said:

---

What we looking at is typical of every limitation action and to be expected here.

---

Oh I know that...it's still ballsy to claim that it "wasn't me".

---

Go read carefully. They didn't say, "It wasn't me," they said that it wasn't an act of neglect on their part or anyone under the umbrella. They're effectively calling it an act of God and saying they did everything they were supposed to and operated according to established standards and procedures and they shouldn't be held liable for the full extent of the damages.

---

Again...that's their legal reasoning. And I get it. I would be surprised if their attorneys DIDN'T claim that.

But all of that still boils down to "wasn't me". That's what an "act of God" is.

ABATTBQ11 said:

---

Ag with kids said:

---

Stat Monitor Repairman said:

---

What we looking at is typical of every limitation action and to be expected here.

---

Oh I know that...it's still ballsy to claim that it "wasn't me".

---

Go read carefully. They didn't say, "It wasn't me," they said that it wasn't an act of neglect on their part or anyone under the umbrella. They're effectively calling it an act of God and saying they did everything they were supposed to and operated according to established standards and procedures and they shouldn't be held liable for the full extent of the damages.

---

It's not really an Act of God defense, though they may plead that too, but they are saying it's not due to their negligence.

EX TEXASEX said:

---

Stat Monitor Repairman said:

---

Very high stakes riding on the outcome of the investigation. We looking at the difference between $44 million and ~$3 billion here with specifics surrounding causation being outcome determinative. No way to predict how this will play out until we get more facts.

---

The left has corrupted every part of government , look at the FBI !! The freaking FBI, the worlds premiere/ world leading law enforcement agency for decades that took only the best. Now, it is basically the Stasi !! I have zero faith in this investigation. If the left /DNC had an fault in this, it will be covered up !!!

---

you need to relax. and clearly you dont know what you are talking about with the NTSB or the CSB for that matter.

They should look at the failure modes of follow-up and non follow-up steering under various power loss scenarios.

Seems like if the emergency generator fired up and came online like it was supposed to they would've had at least one steering pump running.

So it's possible that they got steering back but somehow they didn't realize they had steering back in time to do anything.

The steering would've been slow to respond and felt different on one pump. Would have also responded differently because no water was being forced over the rudder due to loss of main propulsion. It's also unknown what, if any indicators on the bridge would confirm they had steering. It's possible they defaulted to a different steering mode and didn't realize it.

So we looking at an engineering issue with the initial loss of electrical power for sure. But also the potential for human failure in responding to the emergency.

Stat Monitor Repairman said:

---

They should look at the failure modes of follow-up and non follow-up steering under various power loss scenarios.

Seems like if the emergency generator fired up and came online like it was supposed to they would've had at least one steering pump running.

So it's possible that they got steering back but somehow they didn't realize they had steering back in time to do anything.

The steering would've been slow to respond and felt different on one pump. Would have also responded differently because no water was being forced over the rudder due to loss of main propulsion. It's also unknown what, if any indicators on the bridge would confirm they had steering. It's possible they defaulted to a different steering mode and didn't realize it.

So we looking at an engineering issue with the initial loss of electrical power for sure. But also the potential for human failure in responding to the emergency.

---

i would say that human failure is guaranteed at some level. this is always the case in pretty much any significant incident or accident, humans are failure prone and always involved.

the question will be to what extent that is the case, if it was organizational pressures, training/competency, not following procedures, that sort of thing. or even if emergency response procedures were followed correctly.

aggiehawg said:

---

Aaaannnd, we're off to court!

Quote:

---

The owner of the Dali ship that crashed into the Francis Scott Key Bridge in Baltimore last week has filed a court filing in U.S. Federal Court, claiming no responsibility for the Key bridge's collapse.
In a court petition, Dali's owner, Grace Ocean Private Limited, "denied any fault or neglect of the collapse of the Francis Scott Key Bridge."

Grace Ocean Private Limited and Dali's ship manager, Synergy Marine Pte Ltd, requested in the petition to be exonerated from all liability for the Key bridge's collapse.

A portion of the filing obtained by Independent states, "The [bridge collapse] was not due to any fault, neglect, or want of care on the part of [ship owner & operator], the Vessel, or any persons or entities for whose acts [ship owner & operator] may be responsible."

---

Dali owners deny fault for Baltimore bridge collapse and demand lawsuits be capped at price of the boat https://t.co/gieWNNVWhV pic.twitter.com/7sqVTNmZIy

— New York Post (@nypost) April 2, 2024

LINK

---

FYI- Alex Giles is my friend that shared the pre-incident bridge photo I previously posted on this thread.

Maritime law is notoriously complex but the economic consequences of this, and losses by other carriers/commercial companies, will far outstrip the valuation of the ship that took the bridge down, itself.

If negligence in maintenance/servicing of the ship is shown (or for that matter in the conduct of the crew prior to the impact) then I doubt they limit the liabilities to their total cost, though maybe part of this is just their wording around 'hey, don't go after us, go after our insurers.'

If the limitation holds expect everyone under the sun to get sued including the charterer Maersk, OEMs and even the bridge builder and designer. They may all get sued anyway.

Another interesting maritime quirk will be if the owner declares general average and the cargo interests are implicated in sharing some of the cargo losses. I don't know how many containers are lost or damaged but more could be affected as time goes by. There are a number of reefer containers on there. GA is complex and very time consuming. My wife has a client with around 100 containers on there. They are more worried about getting dragged into GA than late delivery.

Admiralty Law was one of my favorite courses in school and I was pretty in to it. Even got to attend a conference the prof gives that a couple students a year get to attend.

Sea Speed said:

---

Admiralty Law was one of my favorite courses in school

---

Then you can tell us all about how US Courts are illegitimate because they use gold-fringed flags.



Conspiracy theory for those not familiar

https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost.com/2024/04/07/us-news/massive-container-ship-loses-power-near-nycs-verrazzano-bridge-days-after-baltimore-key-bridge-disaster/amp/

Another container ship lost power and is currently anchored.

Is this something that's pretty common and we're just now hearing about it bc one finally hit a bridge, or is something else going on?

TexasAggie_02 said:

---

https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost.com/2024/04/07/us-news/massive-container-ship-loses-power-near-nycs-verrazzano-bridge-days-after-baltimore-key-bridge-disaster/amp/

Another container ship lost power and is currently anchored.

Is this something that's pretty common and we're just now hearing about it bc one finally hit a bridge, or is something else going on?

---

I am not saying it is Russians...

but Russians /s


during the height of the bridge discussion, there were experts saying that power outages are rare, but common enough..

One experts stated something like on average 10 each day, worldwide, but they are typically addressed/power restored with no issues whatsoever because they are not in port or not in a place where any infrastructure is at risk.

not sure if the number is correct, but "it happens" is my take away. We are lucky that collisions of any sort are very rare.

Who could have seen this coming https://t.co/fcWt8ZOso0

— Adam Carolla (@adamcarolla) April 9, 2024

How about no?

Will they pinky swear that will fix race relations

Bondag said:

---

Who could have seen this coming https://t.co/fcWt8ZOso0

— Adam Carolla (@adamcarolla) April 9, 2024

---

Agthatbuilds said:

---

I'll bet a whole dollar that the bridge will not return as the "Francis Scott key" bridge seeing as how he was a slave owner.

---

Called it many pages ago. I'm a wizard.

Was this congressman gay? Bisexual? Transgender? No?

Hmmmm, I dunno... I'm not sure that just being black & male checks enough boxes to name a bridge after in 2024.

I don't want to attempt to traverse a DEI span.

I'll choose option 2.

Caulk the wagon!!