GAC06 said:
https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/iowa-class-battleship-uss-new-jersey-getting-massive-overhaul-209152
Guessing New Jersey
Don't doubt for a minute that you're correct, but why does it take that long? Ship loses power then ship hits the bridge. Figure out why the ship lost power and BOOM, generate your report.Quote:
Anyone who has paid attention to NTSB investigations knows the biggest ones can take 1-3 years to produce the final report, but they will issue multiple interim reports as the investigation progresses.
Because gov't.Quote:
but why does it take that long?
I think a lot of it is because of how thorough their reports are. I know people like to dump on the government agencies, but the NTSB really does some exceptional work.agent-maroon said:Don't doubt for a minute that you're correct, but why does it take that long? Ship loses power then ship hits the bridge. Figure out why the ship lost power and BOOM, generate your report.Quote:
Anyone who has paid attention to NTSB investigations knows the biggest ones can take 1-3 years to produce the final report, but they will issue multiple interim reports as the investigation progresses.
Thank God it doesn't take an auto mechanic this long to figure out a problem or we would all be walking...
TexasRebel said:
It's not exactly apples to apples.
Diagnosing the immediate cause and repairing the ship are easy.
Diagnosing the root cause and finding what exactly had to align for this event to happen, along with the probability of those events aligning, then changing tiny things to reduce the possibility of all of those things happening at once again while making sure you don't create an easier path for this to happen again…
That's not so easy.
The question of what happened is fairly easy to answer. Ship hit bridge, bridge collapsed.agent-maroon said:Don't doubt for a minute that you're correct, but why does it take that long? Ship loses power then ship hits the bridge. Figure out why the ship lost power and BOOM, generate your report.Quote:
Anyone who has paid attention to NTSB investigations knows the biggest ones can take 1-3 years to produce the final report, but they will issue multiple interim reports as the investigation progresses.
Thank God it doesn't take an auto mechanic this long to figure out a problem or we would all be walking...
agent-maroon said:Don't doubt for a minute that you're correct, but why does it take that long? Ship loses power then ship hits the bridge. Figure out why the ship lost power and BOOM, generate your report.Quote:
Anyone who has paid attention to NTSB investigations knows the biggest ones can take 1-3 years to produce the final report, but they will issue multiple interim reports as the investigation progresses.
Thank God it doesn't take an auto mechanic this long to figure out a problem or we would all be walking...
aggiehawg said:
I have heard a report that the reefer containers kept tripping breakers while the ship was still in port. Don't have verification of that but if there were some electrical issues while still dockside that's definitely something they will look at.
The reefers? I don't think so. Was watching Jeff's stream I posted above and the subject of the reefers came up from a chat member and he explained that there are outlets on those container ships just for reefer containers.TexasRebel said:aggiehawg said:
I have heard a report that the reefer containers kept tripping breakers while the ship was still in port. Don't have verification of that but if there were some electrical issues while still dockside that's definitely something they will look at.
Don't they run on gasoline?
Never let a crisis go to waste when you can force the taxpayers to absorb the waste.one safe place said:
Trying to be sure most of the contracts are awarded to minority contractors will add a year to the timeline.
I don't know. Maryland has already hired Scanksa. They have a great track record in Florida. Finish on-time or early and right on or slightly under budget. That's a good sign to me that they won't dilly-dally too much.Ag87H2O said:Never let a crisis go to waste when you can force the taxpayers to absorb the waste.one safe place said:
Trying to be sure most of the contracts are awarded to minority contractors will add a year to the timeline.
I heard Gingrich on Fox make a great point. PeePaw gonna stick it to greedy corporations for making snickers bars smaller and shaving some ounces off bags of chips, but when you have other greedy corporations that caused a multi-million dollar bridge fiasco that impacts commerce, he's gonna dig in our pockets and pay it off.Ag87H2O said:Never let a crisis go to waste when you can force the taxpayers to absorb the waste.one safe place said:
Trying to be sure most of the contracts are awarded to minority contractors will add a year to the timeline.
I've watched a lot of the Air Disasters episodes and it's really interesting to see what they do during their investigations...and you can just tell from the show that it takes a LONG time to do their reports.Rapier108 said:The question of what happened is fairly easy to answer. Ship hit bridge, bridge collapsed.agent-maroon said:Don't doubt for a minute that you're correct, but why does it take that long? Ship loses power then ship hits the bridge. Figure out why the ship lost power and BOOM, generate your report.Quote:
Anyone who has paid attention to NTSB investigations knows the biggest ones can take 1-3 years to produce the final report, but they will issue multiple interim reports as the investigation progresses.
Thank God it doesn't take an auto mechanic this long to figure out a problem or we would all be walking...
Then comes WHY it happened and that is the hard part. Accidents like this are complex; it is usually a series of events that occur that result in the accident.
Think of it as a length of chain. Each link in the chain is one factor in the accident. If one link is removed, the accident does not happen. Now the NTSB has to figure out how all of the links occurred in just the right order and at just the wrong time to cause the ship to lose power and then hit the bridge.
The NTSB looks into every possible cause and potential factor, and rules them out one by one. Some are easy to rule out; others take a lot longer.
Because this involved a ship, and the bridge, they are looking at two different incidents. First the problems on the ship that caused it to hit the bridge. The second will be why did the bridge collapse. And yes, the ship hitting it caused the collapse, but they will look into why dolphins weren't added to protect it, or if there was anything in the design or maintenance that could have made it more susceptible to collapse.
NTSB reports can be hundreds of pages long and not only will provide very specific details of why the accident ultimately occurred, but will include recommendations on how to prevent it from happening again. As the NTSB does not have regulatory power, it will be up to other agencies to implement those recommendations.
If you have the time, find some of the NTSB reports online. The amount of time and technical detail they put into them, even for small accidents, is remarkable.
aggiehawg said:
I have heard a report that the reefer containers kept tripping breakers while the ship was still in port. Don't have verification of that but if there were some electrical issues while still dockside that's definitely something they will look at.
Yep. The alphabets have no incentive to be efficient, or timely, they can drag things out as long as they want. And nobody will do anything to them anyway. That's how government and government agencies work. I suspect most of them could write a 1,000 page manual on boiling water. And take 10 months to do it.CDUB98 said:Because gov't.Quote:
but why does it take that long?
BALTIMORE UPDATE:
— Lara Logan (@laralogan) April 2, 2024
Baltimore police department’s Marine Unit was defunded as part of ‘defund the police’ - so no divers for search, rescue & recovery & no boats of their own…https://t.co/i4fWjfSRuM
Decades of Marriner experience dealing with major hurricanes, floods, dead…
It depends on the NTSB folks in charge, but I would suspect they will have regular updates of some sort at least in the form of press briefings due to the high profile nature of this incident. But they may not issue interim reports along the way unless there are major findings that they think justify an immediate change that needs to happen to prevent similar incidents. If so, they may issue an interim report with a set of recommendations included.agent-maroon said:
Thanks everyone for the replies regarding the length of the investigation. Did not consider that we were talking about a root cause analysis vs a "OK here's the problem ma'am" analysis. Will they issue interim reports, something like they know it was a fuel problem along the way to determining why there was a fuel problem? Or will all the legalities and liabilities prevent any sort of a relatively quick final failure mode response?
Appreciate the gentle & informative replies!
agent-maroon said:Don't doubt for a minute that you're correct, but why does it take that long? Ship loses power then ship hits the bridge. Figure out why the ship lost power and BOOM, generate your report.Quote:
Anyone who has paid attention to NTSB investigations knows the biggest ones can take 1-3 years to produce the final report, but they will issue multiple interim reports as the investigation progresses.
Thank God it doesn't take an auto mechanic this long to figure out a problem or we would all be walking...
I was beaten to it, but RCCAs do take time when they're done well. Especially the "CA" part; it's hard balancing giving things enough time to get done but not so much time that everyone just moves on and forgets about it because other emergent issues take priority. This is a big part of what my job revolves around.agent-maroon said:
Thanks everyone for the replies regarding the length of the investigation. Did not consider that we were talking about a root cause analysis vs a "OK here's the problem ma'am" analysis. Will they issue interim reports, something like they know it was a fuel problem along the way to determining why there was a fuel problem? Or will all the legalities and liabilities prevent any sort of a relatively quick final failure mode response?
Appreciate the gentle & informative replies!
Quote:
The owner of the Dali ship that crashed into the Francis Scott Key Bridge in Baltimore last week has filed a court filing in U.S. Federal Court, claiming no responsibility for the Key bridge's collapse.
In a court petition, Dali's owner, Grace Ocean Private Limited, "denied any fault or neglect of the collapse of the Francis Scott Key Bridge."
Grace Ocean Private Limited and Dali's ship manager, Synergy Marine Pte Ltd, requested in the petition to be exonerated from all liability for the Key bridge's collapse.
A portion of the filing obtained by Independent states, "The [bridge collapse] was not due to any fault, neglect, or want of care on the part of [ship owner & operator], the Vessel, or any persons or entities for whose acts [ship owner & operator] may be responsible."
Dali owners deny fault for Baltimore bridge collapse and demand lawsuits be capped at price of the boat https://t.co/gieWNNVWhV pic.twitter.com/7sqVTNmZIy
— New York Post (@nypost) April 2, 2024
Quote:
"The [bridge collapse] was not due to any fault, neglect, or want of care on the part of Petitioners, the Vessel, or any persons or entities for whose acts Petitioners may be held responsible," the "limitation of liability" petition filed in the US District Court of Baltimore says, the Banner reports.
Quote:
The ship had reportedly lost power ahead of the collision with one of the support beams of the bridge, causing the crew to lose control.
The two companies also argued in the petition that liability costs should be capped at $43.6 million, which they say is the cost of the 984-foot-long vessel after the damage it sustained.
Quote:
They claimed that before the ship set off from the Port of Baltimore last Tuesday, its value was about $90 million.
But they estimated that repairs to the ship will cost at least $28 million, salvage operations will cost at least $19.5 million and the freight costs are estimated to cost $1.1 million.
Those opposing limiting the companies' liability must now prove there was some fault or neglect, according to the Banner.
aggiehawg said:
Aaaannnd, we're off to court!Quote:
The owner of the Dali ship that crashed into the Francis Scott Key Bridge in Baltimore last week has filed a court filing in U.S. Federal Court, claiming no responsibility for the Key bridge's collapse.
In a court petition, Dali's owner, Grace Ocean Private Limited, "denied any fault or neglect of the collapse of the Francis Scott Key Bridge."
Grace Ocean Private Limited and Dali's ship manager, Synergy Marine Pte Ltd, requested in the petition to be exonerated from all liability for the Key bridge's collapse.
A portion of the filing obtained by Independent states, "The [bridge collapse] was not due to any fault, neglect, or want of care on the part of [ship owner & operator], the Vessel, or any persons or entities for whose acts [ship owner & operator] may be responsible."Dali owners deny fault for Baltimore bridge collapse and demand lawsuits be capped at price of the boat https://t.co/gieWNNVWhV pic.twitter.com/7sqVTNmZIy
— New York Post (@nypost) April 2, 2024
LINK
That's pretty ballsy claiming that.Quote:
"The [bridge collapse] was not due to any fault, neglect, or want of care on the part of [ship owner & operator], the Vessel, or any persons or entities for whose acts [ship owner & operator] may be responsible."
