Clavell said:

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Probably this, but not benzene

https://www.ntsb.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/NR20210330.aspx

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Ok reformate .. less than 10 % BZ … I remember the news here reporting it was a BZ barge, typical news reporting something more dangerous

YouBet said:

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So, what's the length of time before they get a new bridge up? Five years? Ten years?

Living in Baltimore already sucked balls because it's a leading US ****hole. And now triple or quadruple your commute on top of it.

That place is about to suck even harder and that's hard to do.

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Once the salvage is complete, the new bridge could probably be built fairly quickly. Without having to deal with maintaining traffic flow a lot of the construction operations will become orders of magnitude simpler.

You have to know that engineers and contractors were putting in the overtime yesterday knowing that the RFP is coming and coming quickly for a design build scenarios.

Can envision a scenario where they got on emergency power and something they did onboard to respond to the emergency inadvertently tripped power back offline again. Who knows if the anchor windlass or the bow thruster is designed to be operated on emergency power. A lot of things could have gone wrong but looking at the video they got power back and then lost it again for some reason, and that may have been the difference here if they would have been able to restore steering long enough to straighten out the rudder.

Quote:

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Clay Diamond, the executive director of the American Pilots' Association, said the ship experienced a "full blackout" around 1:20 a.m., meaning it lost both engine power and electrical power to its control and communications systems.

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This guy saying they were completely dead in the water for some period of time. They got electrical power back at some point but it's unclear whether they ever restored the main propulsion or were able to back down as initially thought. Still would guess that it was fuel related or some major electrical problem that took out both generators at the same time.

YouBet said:

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So, what's the length of time before they get a new bridge up? Five years? Ten years?

Living in Baltimore already sucked balls because it's a leading US ****hole. And now triple or quadruple your commute on top of it.

That place is about to suck even harder and that's hard to do.

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895 and the harbor tunnel is going to have to pick up the regular commuter traffic but hazmat is banned from the tunnel. It's really going to impact any commercial traffic carrying anything considered hazardous. The tunnel is two lanes each direction so I would expect that to get backed up pretty solid during the rush hours

HumpitPuryear said:

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YouBet said:

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So, what's the length of time before they get a new bridge up? Five years? Ten years?

Living in Baltimore already sucked balls because it's a leading US ****hole. And now triple or quadruple your commute on top of it.

That place is about to suck even harder and that's hard to do.

---

895 and the harbor tunnel is going to have to pick up the regular commuter traffic but hazmat is banned from the tunnel. It's really going to impact any commercial traffic carrying anything considered hazardous. The tunnel is two lanes each direction so I would expect that to get backed up pretty solid during the rush hours

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Thanks. I read yesterday that most hazmat stuff goes over that bridge, wasn't sure why.

Logos Stick said:

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HumpitPuryear said:

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YouBet said:

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So, what's the length of time before they get a new bridge up? Five years? Ten years?

Living in Baltimore already sucked balls because it's a leading US ****hole. And now triple or quadruple your commute on top of it.

That place is about to suck even harder and that's hard to do.

---

895 and the harbor tunnel is going to have to pick up the regular commuter traffic but hazmat is banned from the tunnel. It's really going to impact any commercial traffic carrying anything considered hazardous. The tunnel is two lanes each direction so I would expect that to get backed up pretty solid during the rush hours

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Thanks. I read yesterday that most hazmat stuff goes over that bridge, wasn't sure why.

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Yep I guess that traffic will have to go around the loop to the west of Baltimore which is a pretty long detour. That tunnel is also height restricted. There are height monitors on the approach and big warning signs that light up if anything too tall is sensed.

HumpitPuryear said:

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Logos Stick said:

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HumpitPuryear said:

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YouBet said:

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So, what's the length of time before they get a new bridge up? Five years? Ten years?

Living in Baltimore already sucked balls because it's a leading US ****hole. And now triple or quadruple your commute on top of it.

That place is about to suck even harder and that's hard to do.

---

895 and the harbor tunnel is going to have to pick up the regular commuter traffic but hazmat is banned from the tunnel. It's really going to impact any commercial traffic carrying anything considered hazardous. The tunnel is two lanes each direction so I would expect that to get backed up pretty solid during the rush hours

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Thanks. I read yesterday that most hazmat stuff goes over that bridge, wasn't sure why.

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Yep I guess that traffic will have to go around the loop to the west of Baltimore which is a pretty long detour. That tunnel is also height restricted. There are height monitors on the approach and big warning signs that light up if anything too tall is sensed.

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Any chance a ferry could operate within say 6 months? Temp connecting roads and set up type thing?

Pro Sandy said:

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Cost benefit isn't there. Last time a bridge was hit was probably 20 years ago in Oklahoma? Plus you are reliant on humans making a quick decision constantly. Risk for failure is high.

Much better to build bridges with dolphins around the pilings. More expensive, but work 24/7 without pay. I doubt the Key bridge had any since it is almost 50 years old.

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good luck having these guys stop that Singapore ship!!

bigjag19 said:

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HumpitPuryear said:

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Logos Stick said:

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HumpitPuryear said:

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YouBet said:

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So, what's the length of time before they get a new bridge up? Five years? Ten years?

Living in Baltimore already sucked balls because it's a leading US ****hole. And now triple or quadruple your commute on top of it.

That place is about to suck even harder and that's hard to do.

---

895 and the harbor tunnel is going to have to pick up the regular commuter traffic but hazmat is banned from the tunnel. It's really going to impact any commercial traffic carrying anything considered hazardous. The tunnel is two lanes each direction so I would expect that to get backed up pretty solid during the rush hours

---

Thanks. I read yesterday that most hazmat stuff goes over that bridge, wasn't sure why.

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Yep I guess that traffic will have to go around the loop to the west of Baltimore which is a pretty long detour. That tunnel is also height restricted. There are height monitors on the approach and big warning signs that light up if anything too tall is sensed.

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Any chance a ferry could operate within say 6 months? Temp connecting roads and set up type thing?

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I doubt they could do it on a large scale taking lots of commuter vehicles across, but they might be able to set something up using military equipment for hazmat trucks and other oversized loads to keep from cluttering the other roads and the tunnel.

Tugs only work at very low speeds. They would slow shipping transit to a crawl and thus port activity to a fraction of capacity. Once a ship is above 3-4 knots and has steerage, they are more of a hindrance and actually become a potential cause for accidents more than a preventative.

The key is to protect bridge pilings around channels and keep up on training, maintenance, and inspection requirements, and minimize the odds of an accident that way.

LMCane said:

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Pro Sandy said:

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Cost benefit isn't there. Last time a bridge was hit was probably 20 years ago in Oklahoma? Plus you are reliant on humans making a quick decision constantly. Risk for failure is high.

Much better to build bridges with dolphins around the pilings. More expensive, but work 24/7 without pay. I doubt the Key bridge had any since it is almost 50 years old.

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good luck having these guys stop that Singapore ship!!

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Didn't you see that movie about the talking dolphins?

Fa love Pa.

I bet a lot of bridges built prior to the 80s will be retrofit with concrete barriers or dolphins now. I read that this collapsed bridge could have been protected with a $3 million construction project but it wasn't approved.

Quote:

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Several large automakers said on Tuesday that they were working to reroute shipments of cars because of the collapse of the Francis Scott Key Bridge in Baltimore.

The Port of Baltimore plays an important role in the shipment of vehicles and handled more than 750,000 cars and trucks in 2023, according to the Maryland Port Administration.

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BMW uses Sparrows Point that is situated outbound the Key Bridge...

https://bimmerlife.com/2022/02/09/bmw-na-opens-new-vehicle-distribution-center-in-baltimore/

Kinetic energy of Dali: ~120 kWh

(200,000,000# at 6kn)

Kinetic energy in a 3,000# car at 70 mph: ~0.19 kWh


Dolphins aren't stopping that.

An artificial reef, maybe.

The best you can hope for is a sacrificial guide to redirect it away from the bridge supports, but deflection only happens if there's an angle.

bigjag19 said:

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HumpitPuryear said:

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Logos Stick said:

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HumpitPuryear said:

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YouBet said:

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So, what's the length of time before they get a new bridge up? Five years? Ten years?

Living in Baltimore already sucked balls because it's a leading US ****hole. And now triple or quadruple your commute on top of it.

That place is about to suck even harder and that's hard to do.

---

895 and the harbor tunnel is going to have to pick up the regular commuter traffic but hazmat is banned from the tunnel. It's really going to impact any commercial traffic carrying anything considered hazardous. The tunnel is two lanes each direction so I would expect that to get backed up pretty solid during the rush hours

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Thanks. I read yesterday that most hazmat stuff goes over that bridge, wasn't sure why.

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Yep I guess that traffic will have to go around the loop to the west of Baltimore which is a pretty long detour. That tunnel is also height restricted. There are height monitors on the approach and big warning signs that light up if anything too tall is sensed.

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Any chance a ferry could operate within say 6 months? Temp connecting roads and set up type thing?

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I have no ideal. I can't imagine the amount of red tape to start up something like that including what would be required to set up the ferry landing on both ends. Maybe they could relax some of the limits on hazmat going straight through Baltimore on I95. There's still the 695 west loop it's just a longer route.

Ferries are probably not the way to go in this situation. Trying to cross a river with busy shipping traffic on a hastily arranged ferry set-up is inviting another disaster IMO.

Example that I'm familiar with is the MV George Perry ferry disaster and it had been running for years. My wife's family had used it often and would tell you that you didn't want to brave the ferry unless you had a compelling reason to get to the other side. The Hale Boggs bridge was under construction in large part to relieve the traffic issues that this ferry was coping with.

Obviously the port closure is going to be bad for the local Baltimore economy, but is it a choke point for the nation's economy in general? I don't think it's like a few years ago when container ships from China were backed up at Long Beach, or would be like the Port of Houston closing and creating a gas shortage.

Quote:

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but is it a choke point for the nation's economy in general?

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I don't think it's a choke point for the overall economy, but I do think it is for a lot of automobile imports, and there will be quite a bit of local economic downturn due to not being able to get goods in/out.

CDUB98 said:

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Quote:

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but is it a choke point for the nation's economy in general?

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I don't think it's a choke point for the overall economy, but I do think it is for a lot of automobile imports, and there will be quite a bit of local economic downturn due to not being able to get goods in/out.

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Auto and construction equipment.

CDUB98 said:

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Quote:

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but is it a choke point for the nation's economy in general?

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I don't think it's a choke point for the overall economy, but I do think it is for a lot of automobile imports, and there will be quite a bit of local economic downturn due to not being able to get goods in/out.

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**** 'em. That area is the richest in the nation.

23% of all US coal exported through Baltimore.

CDUB98 said:

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Quote:

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but is it a choke point for the nation's economy in general?

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I don't think it's a choke point for the overall economy, but I do think it is for a lot of automobile imports, and there will be quite a bit of local economic downturn due to not being able to get goods in/out.

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Not expected to be a big impact nationally:

Quote:

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Shippers and logistics experts expect the collapse of the Francis Scott Key Bridge to disrupt the flow of some industrial commodities and likely delay freight traffic for a time as companies redirect shipments. But the impact of the latest supply chain disruption will likely be limited as ocean carriers and importers divert trade to other ports while truckers drive around bottlenecked Baltimore.

The WSJ Logistics Report's Liz Young writes the most immediate impact looks to be on coal exports, a major commodity at a port that handles big volumes of bulk materials.

Baltimore is a key gateway for automotive and other vehicle shipments. But major automakers say their terminals are south of the site of the collapsed bridge and so they don't expect car carriers to be impeded.

Container importers will find alternate gateways from New York to Norfolk, Va., but nearby distribution centers will lose a key route.

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🚨 BREAKING 🚨

Angela Chao, sister-in-law of Senator Mitch McConnell, who drowned in her vehicle 6 days ago, was the CEO of the shipping company that owned the massive cargo ship that hit the Key Bridge & caused its collapse just 24+ hours ago.

🛑Conspiracy?🛑

She is… pic.twitter.com/YEpkU853Oh

— ᴊᴀᴄᴋ ᴅᴀɴɢᴇʀ (@AmericazOutlaw) March 27, 2024

Stat Monitor Repairman said:

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23% of all US coal exported through Baltimore.

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Thoughtfully glancing over at my global climate change tinfoil hat collection while reading this and the automobile import posts above...

I am confused. Chao was CEO of Foremost. I thought the ship was owned by another company?

aggiehawg said:

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I am confused. Chao was CEO of Foremost. I thought the ship was owned by another company?

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I believe that's right but it doesn't really even matter to whether that Twitter post deserves a second of attention

Stat Monitor Repairman said:

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Dammit, our cabinet is inhabited by Muppets

Stat Monitor Repairman said:

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23% of all US coal exported through Baltimore.

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Learn to code while we pay for the new bridge

Stat Monitor Repairman said:

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NO ****, SHERLOCK!!