Wait, wait, wait... Batman is married??? Can't Commissioner Gordon help her beat this?

Fightin TX Aggie said:

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Fishin Texas Aggie 05 said:

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DPD chief is defending the cops and asking us to not say mean things

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THIS right here is a big part of the problem with policing. It isn't racism.

First, police departments end up hiring bad cops. Second, they poorly train their cops.

Then finally, and this may be the biggest problem, there is a culture within PDs that defends bad cops. The chief should have come out and said, "I've reviewed the tape, and there was no indication Mrs. West was intoxicated. Officer ___ did a bad job on the testing. This will be marked in her employment record, and we will require her to take some continuing education on DUI policies."

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What happens if it comes out the officer is correct and he the Police chief made her out to be incompetent?

Panama Red said:

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This video and resulting arrest are a great example of why DUI attorneys advise not to do the road side gymnastics.

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Did you watch the same video I did? After the disasterous manner in which she pulled over, she is lucky she was dealt an experienced cop to help give her a chance. Also, she was getting arrested either way, cops don't let suspected intoxicated drivers leave for refusing everything.

Let's assume the tox comes back positive. If I'm a juror watching that pull over, then see her refuse and lawyer up, I'm leaning more towards conviction. After I see the scared grandma comply and the inexperienced cop, I'm less inclined to convict. I know we are seeing differing opinions here, but her defense attorney has a hell of a lot more to leverage now, than just a disasterous pull over by his client.

But we will see if the prosecution even takes the case to trial. Doubt it after that cop's "excellent" job.

Tanya 93 said:

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What happens if it comes out the officer is correct and he the Police chief made her out to be incompetent?

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Enough evidence has already surfaced that the cop wasn't correct and made many mistakes (see BuddyBud post on prior page). So even if the tox report shows Valium or something, the sum total of everything almost certainly leads to the case being thrown out or ends in a traffic citation.

If she lives at the address in the report and at the North Park PF Changs, why was she going westbound on NW Hwy? It appears that when cop spots her it is on the Harry Hines over pass. Seems like she would have taken Central/75.

Like she said, she was lost.

I don't know what the full truth is yet on this woman and this stop.

But I'm sticking with my post from 7/19/21.

Quote:

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I'm not a big fan of Abbott, but I find the trust for West around here a bit perplexing.

His track record and tenure or lack there of, since exiting the military in 2004 sends up alot of red flags for me.

Pretty much everything he's done for 17 straight years has been cut shorter than originally intended(as was his military career most likely). And in the case of him being a one term congressman, I get that his district was redrawn to become more heavily Democrat, but instead of duking it out as the incumbent, he jumped to a more favorable district and still lost...in Florida mind you.

I like west on some issues. But if I was handed a resume by someone with as many short term jobs as this guy has had over the last 17 years I would not hire them.

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The man has no place near our governors mansion. And I have no problem with Abbott being replaced. And I have no problem with having a black governor. This just isn't the right one and the way he has handled this situation proves it.

thirdcoast said:

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DannyDuberstein said:

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You do realize that inability to follow simple instruction is part of the test, right? That's as much of the test as looking at her balance. West received very simple, clear instruction and couldnt follow it. The officer isn't a kindergarten teacher to help her immediately every time she gets stuck or is doing it wrong. That's part of the evaluation and it's being captured.

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Ok, I'll concede that instruction following is a part of it, but losing balance is a much BIGGER part. Maybe with all the lights and cars driving by she heard "heel in front of toe". Either way it's hard to tell who is less experienced in roadside sobriety tests in this video...that's the much bigger problem.

My cop gave me a 9.30 min eye test. He told me not to move my head and to follow the pen to extremes, at least a dozen times. He wasn't a kindergarten teacher. I asked for a 2nd opinion, and he yelled at me until another cop pulled him aside and told him to calm down and take deep breath. In that case, me not following directions led to a dismissal. So the point is, OTHER things matter much more. In this case, the manner in which West pulled over blows everything else out of the water. Had she lawyered up and gone straight to jail, the state and the cop would be better off.

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Tell me you have never been arrested in Dallas County without telling me you have never been arrested in Dallas County.

Fightin TX Aggie said:

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Fishin Texas Aggie 05 said:

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DPD chief is defending the cops and asking us to not say mean things

---

THIS right here is a big part of the problem with policing. It isn't racism.

First, police departments end up hiring bad cops. Second, they poorly train their cops.

Then finally, and this may be the biggest problem, there is a culture within PDs that defends bad cops. The chief should have come out and said, "I've reviewed the tape, and there was no indication Mrs. West was intoxicated. Officer ___ did a bad job on the testing. This will be marked in her employment record, and we will require her to take some continuing education on DUI policies."

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This right here is a big part of the disconnect between the public and the police. The public has no idea what they are talking about so they ASSUME the officer is in the wrong when she did everything by the book. What appears to you to be "no indication of intoxication" was actually about 20 different indications of intoxication to officers who have been certified to administer field sobriety tests. The chief backed the officer for doing her job correctly as he should have.

Yes.

Not sure what point you are trying to make. I've only been arrested in Austin, Houston, Comal, and College Station. Only once for DWI in Austin, and it was dismissed because the cop did even worse than this lady. You lost all credibility when you came here to post that this cop did an "excellent" job. And if you are a cop or former cop with that opinion, that's extremely troubling to hear as a taxpayer.

He's DPD cop.

BuddysBud said:

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Bocephus said:

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Player To Be Named Later said:

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Bocephus said:

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She had spilled alcohol on her shirt and a McDonalds cup containing alcohol in the center console of the SUV. The car smelled like an alcoholic beverage when you approached it. These are all signs of intoxication.

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Where are we seeing this?

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Arrest report/affidavit

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Based on the video:

It appears that the officer not only is incompetent but lied in the report to cover her ass.
In the dash cam video there is no stain or indication of a wet spot on Mrs. West's shirt. How did she know about alcohol in the cup without testing it? The chief said that they didn't analyze the cup.

That officer wanted the DWI really bad and did everything she could to get it.

As for the driving on the fog line, I see it all of the time when idiots are texting as they are driving. I am sure that many commenting here about her bad driving are even more guilty of this sin.

She also could have been checking on the baby. Not smart but not DWI.

Also the shoulder became a driving lane as Mrs West was driving there. I don't think that was an issue here but it should be considered.

She didn't pull over into the center lane to stop. She stopped at a red light, and waited for the police car with flashing lights to pass. Then the officer had to tell her to pull over. Mrs. West likely didn't have any clue until that time that she was being pulled over. Who knows what the officer told her from there? Perhaps she gave instructions that were just as clear as she gave during the field tests.

The officer was so focused on DWI she never considered explaining why Mrs West was stopped. Or asking whether she had been drinking or why she was driving around on the shoulder. Mrs. West had no clue what was happening until the officer pulled out the breathalyzer. Obviously this was the first time she had been pulled over for suspected DWI, possibly it could have been her first ticket. She mentioned that she thought that she was being pulled over for a lane change without signaling. If you rarely if ever get traffic ticket, and suddenly the officer makes you do silly tests, I would understand her being confused and distracted.

Overall the officer was so intent on getting a DWI arrest that she failed to look at the big picture. That is a real sign of inexperience and poor training.

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Have you watched the entirety of the body camera and dash camera footage or just the 14-minute edited version available on YouTube? If you have not watched all of the video, then how can you be sure what instructions Mrs. West was given?

Driving on the shoulder is a crime. Parking in the middle of a highway is a crime. Parking in the right lane of a freeway is a crime. All are possible indicators of intoxication. You are welcome to go to court and argue that there was lemonade in the cup. No one is ever going to test it. None of that changes the fact that this was a valid arrest and enough PC existed in the state of Texas to generate a warrant for her blood.

When it comes back that she had alcohol in her system, are you going to come back on here and publicly apologize for insulting the officer for getting it right while you got it wrong?

MsDoubleD81 said:

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If she lives at the address in the report and at the North Park PF Changs, why was she going westbound on NW Hwy? It appears that when cop spots her it is on the Harry Hines over pass. Seems like she would have taken Central/75.

Like she said, she was lost.

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I asked that myself. Assuming she was taking the grandchild to his parents home.

Bocephus said:

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When it comes back that she had alcohol in her system, are you going to come back on here and publicly apologize for insulting the officer for getting it right while you got it wrong?

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When this ends in dropped DWID/DWI charges and petty traffic citation, are you going to still claim this officer did an "excellent" job?

thirdcoast said:

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Not sure what point you are trying to make. I've only been arrested in Austin, Houston, Comal, and College Station. Only once for DWI in Austin, and it was dismissed because the cop did even worse than this lady. You lost all credibility when you came here to post that this cop did an "excellent" job. And if you are a cop or former cop with that opinion, that's extremely troubling to hear as a taxpayer.

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That's okay. You think that refusing to test and lawyering up is a bad thing. I would take all of your advice about the criminal justice system with a grain of salt. The fact that I am allowed to be a cop is very troubling to me as a taxpayer too, but that is gubmint work for ya!

thirdcoast said:

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Not sure what point you are trying to make. I've only been arrested in Austin, Houston, Comal, and College Station. Only once for DWI in Austin, and it was dismissed because the cop did even worse than this lady. You lost all credibility when you came here to post that this cop did an "excellent" job. And if you are a cop or former cop with that opinion, that's extremely troubling to hear as a taxpayer.

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Umm, you've been arrested 4 times and you're on here talking about credibility? LOL.

thirdcoast said:

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Bocephus said:

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When it comes back that she had alcohol in her system, are you going to come back on here and publicly apologize for insulting the officer for getting it right while you got it wrong?

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When this ends in dropped DWID/DWI charges and petty traffic citation, are you going to still claim this officer did an "excellent" job?

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If the blood test comes back with no signs of alcohol, I will be right back on here admitting that I was wrong. The officer did do an excellent job. As I said before, I will be surprised if her blood alcohol level is below 0.15. We will see.

How long does it take to get the blood test results?

I never said that. I said, if not hammered and in .08 range, not refusing tests you can pass, and refusing the breathalizer can be a good thing. It's not a hard thing to understand, and it's not one size fits all advice for the masses, its for educated adults who visit F16. But I still understand why that's a debatable risk here.

What's not debatable is whether this cop did an excellent job or not. She was NOT excellent. Maybe you are friends with her, or maybe your roadside tests are even more amateur, making this look "excellent" by comparison.

We look forward to you making excuses for DPD or blaming the Wests, once this all ends in a petty traffic ticket.

Q: if not guilty for DWI and she didn't get a ticket for shoulder, middle lane stop in the first place, can she get a ticket?

That would seem rather petty, especially when they had her spend two nights in jail

Curious as to your thoughts about Allen West's response. Assuming the remaining evidence shows his wife was completely sober and a majority come to the conclusion this was all caused by an over zealous officer, would you believe West is a viable choice for governor? Specifically, his behavior and actions have all been justified?

This is not a "gotcha" post as I am truly curious. Personally, I think his actions showed poor judgement even though I can understand a husband being very angry with regards to how his wife and grandchild were treated. Again, curious.

texag84 said:

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Q: if not guilty for DWI and she didn't get a ticket for shoulder, middle lane stop in the first place, can she get a ticket?

That would seem rather petty, especially when they had her spend two nights in jail

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Not sure about DPD, but that's how it ended for me. Booked over weekend on DWI in Travis County jail, ended with a $200 traffic citation after DWI dropped bc cop was an embarrassment. I turned wrong way on one way street in unfamiliar downtown area, immediately noticed and turned around, but cop saw and lit me up from down the street.

Wait all your advice on how to avoid an arrest actually resulted in you getting arrested and sitting in jail over the weekend? You're kidding, right?

OldArmyBrent said:

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Wait all your advice on how to avoid an arrest actually resulted in you getting arrested and sitting in jail over the weekend? You're kidding, right?

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Lol, you are a bit slow. I know. My posts were about avoiding conviction not arrest. I clarified that point several times. At least the others here arguing with me understand that the going to jail part is inevitable either way, and they just disagree on probabilities of conviction. In fact the arrest part is actually even more certain if you are a suspected drunk driver that refuses. I wouldn't expect you to understand that, as you already posted indicating you think there is a chance cops let suspected drunk drivers go home if they refuse.

OldArmyBrent said:

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Why wouldn't there be just as much chance the cop had no additional proof and was forced to let her go if those tests weren't performed?

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No offense, but what makes you think cops let suspected drivers go for refusing tests?
Again, the arrest and jail part is inevitable. I expected that in both cases I was pulled over for DWI. One case I went to jail and charges got dropped. The other case the cop let me drive home after I talked with him (to my suprise). Hope that clarifies things for you.

I'm happy with my outcomes. Also, happy if people want refuse and immediately lawyer up when not drunk.

West had the audacity to claim that baby was in danger by being left in the care of those officers until the parents arrived. I watched that video and I am thankful that the officer was able to stop Mrs. West from driving any farther with that baby. She had no business being behind the wheel. I probably would have voted for West before this.

If the BAC test comes back positive, is it possible that West's enemies dosed her lemonades at the three hour PF Chang's dinner with the baby? That timeline she put out did her no favors.

my thoughts

she was driving poorly, worthy of examination(I live in BCS, her driving would fit in here, lol)

**To me, she's driving in a way that she seems lost and knows she needs to make an exit

I don't really under stand the various pull over spots

The final spot was still fairly loud with road noise

The officer was reading from a printout, That's good, she was trying to stay on script. Given what appears to be the newness of this to her, some of the instructions seemed a little muddled. What is heard by the microphone is not necessarily indicative of what Mrs. West hears. The overall interaction between the 2 seems less than clear that all steps of the various field sobriety test were heard and understood. Oddly, the officer seemed almost resistant to repeat or clarify, like saying I already told you.

I observed Mrs. West walking with one foot in front of the other, she missed the part of direct contact heel toe steps.

Is that poor instructions, poor environment to hear them, did she think she was doing it correctly, or was she impaired?

I dunno

Her speaking did not leave me to believe she was under the influence of alcohol. She is an older woman and I am not sure of her exact physical health. Overall I found her to be coherent and cooperative.


I would like to know if the officer discussed the driving problems, she should/could have been cited for failure to maintain lane.

The officer didn't do bad, but there is a lot of room for improvement imo

im not a cop and am not trained in these test

As much as they are looking for signs of impairment are there also checks to indicate non-impairment, like its time to cut this person loose they are obviously not drunk?

I think there should be.

thirdcoast said:

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OldArmyBrent said:

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Wait all your advice on how to avoid an arrest actually resulted in you getting arrested and sitting in jail over the weekend? You're kidding, right?

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Lol, you are a bit slow. I know. My posts were about avoiding conviction not arrest. I clarified that point several times. At least the others here arguing with me understand that the going to jail part is inevitable either way, and they just disagree on probabilities of conviction. In fact the arrest part is actually even more certain if you are a suspected drunk driver that refuses. I wouldn't expect you to understand that, as you already posted indicating you think there is a chance cops let suspected drunk drivers go home if they refuse.

OldArmyBrent said:

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Why wouldn't there be just as much chance the cop had no additional proof and was forced to let her go if those tests weren't performed?

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No offense, but what makes you think cops let suspected drivers go for refusing tests?
Again, the arrest and jail part is inevitable. I expected that in both cases I was pulled over for DWI. One case I went to jail and charges got dropped. The other case the cop let me drive home after I talked with him (to my suprise). Hope that clarifies things for you.

I'm happy with my outcomes. Also, happy if people want refuse and immediately lawyer up when not drunk.

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You seem to be the slow one. I haven't once argued that you should shut up and count on being let go. I have argued that you **** up less when you don't say anything. I made hypothetical points to refute your idiocy that doing all the stupid human tricks is always a good thing.

Go reread everything. Then stop giving legal advice.

thirdcoast said:

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I never said that. I said, if not hammered and in .08 range, not refusing tests you can pass, and refusing the breathalizer can be a good thing. It's not a hard thing to understand, and it's not one size fits all advice for the masses, its for educated adults who visit F16. But I still understand why that's a debatable risk here.

What's not debatable is whether this cop did an excellent job or not. She was NOT excellent. Maybe you are friends with her, or maybe your roadside tests are even more amateur, making this look "excellent" by comparison.

We look forward to you making excuses for DPD or blaming the Wests, once this all ends in a petty traffic ticket.

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I've never met this officer.

If you are under the influence at all, it is ALWAYS a better idea to refuse all tests. That is common sense.

This is Dallas f-ing county. I watched a guy who beat his daughter to death take a plea to failing to call 911 during an emergency. What I expect to happen is for the blood test to come back positive for alcohol and Mrs. West to plead guilty to a charge that is less than a felony and get probation and maybe some community service. I really do not care. The officer did her job which was to make the streets safer that night. When the blood test comes back positive it will justify her actions.

Bocephus said:

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thirdcoast said:

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I never said that. I said, if not hammered and in .08 range, not refusing tests you can pass, and refusing the breathalizer can be a good thing. It's not a hard thing to understand, and it's not one size fits all advice for the masses, its for educated adults who visit F16. But I still understand why that's a debatable risk here.

What's not debatable is whether this cop did an excellent job or not. She was NOT excellent. Maybe you are friends with her, or maybe your roadside tests are even more amateur, making this look "excellent" by comparison.

We look forward to you making excuses for DPD or blaming the Wests, once this all ends in a petty traffic ticket.

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I've never met this officer.

If you are under the influence at all, it is ALWAYS a better idea to refuse all tests. That is common sense.

This is Dallas f-ing county. I watched a guy who beat his daughter to death take a plea to failing to call 911 during an emergency. What I expect to happen is for the blood test to come back positive for alcohol and Mrs. West to plead guilty to a charge that is less than a felony and get probation and maybe some community service. I really do not care. The officer did her job which was to make the streets safer that night. When the blood test comes back positive it will justify her actions.

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So you're not expecting the Mayor to bend to West's demand to apologize. [/SouthPark]

We fixed the keg said:

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Curious as to your thoughts about Allen West's response. Assuming the remaining evidence shows his wife was completely sober and a majority come to the conclusion this was all caused by an over zealous officer, would you believe West is a viable choice for governor? Specifically, his behavior and actions have all been justified?

This is not a "gotcha" post as I am truly curious. Personally, I think his actions showed poor judgement even though I can understand a husband being very angry with regards to how his wife and grandchild were treated. Again, curious.

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His wife could be completely innocent and I would not vote for him bc he acted like an entitled bully who doxxed an officer. He lied about the officers actions at a minimum. There is a right way and a wrong way to handle this and imo he chose the wrong way.

Bocephus said:

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We fixed the keg said:

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Curious as to your thoughts about Allen West's response. Assuming the remaining evidence shows his wife was completely sober and a majority come to the conclusion this was all caused by an over zealous officer, would you believe West is a viable choice for governor? Specifically, his behavior and actions have all been justified?

This is not a "gotcha" post as I am truly curious. Personally, I think his actions showed poor judgement even though I can understand a husband being very angry with regards to how his wife and grandchild were treated. Again, curious.

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His wife could be completely innocent and I would not vote for him bc he acted like an entitled bully who doxxed an officer. He lied about the officers actions at a minimum. There is a right way and a wrong way to handle this and imo he chose the wrong way.

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He definitely showed an inability to think rationally and in a measured manner. We don't need a Governor that lashes out like that without thinking things through or getting all of the facts first.

The more I think about it, the more I agree with you..... it was not a smart move on his part to 100% go all in how he did before knowing every fact.

If it turns out she was drinking, and she swore up and down to him that she hadn't been, those two are going to have one serious conversation at home.

Bocephus said:

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If you are under the influence at all, it is ALWAYS a better idea to refuse all tests. That is common sense.

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That's your opinion, and may be good advice generally for the masses, but it directly conflicts with my anecdote and many others who weren't drunk and partially complied. Never blow is ALWAYS best. But being able walk and turn and knowing how to not max deviate your eyes, is a calculated risk many adults like me are willing to take IF sober enough.

Despite you thinking this cop did "excellent", Mrs West's lawyer will have MORE leverage at his disposal than had she refused everything and gone straight to jail after a disasterous pull over. Most rational people would understand this, even if it was just dumb luck.

Smelled alcohol in the car......glad I drink vodka!

Bocephus said:

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BuddysBud said:

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Bocephus said:

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Player To Be Named Later said:

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Bocephus said:

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She had spilled alcohol on her shirt and a McDonalds cup containing alcohol in the center console of the SUV. The car smelled like an alcoholic beverage when you approached it. These are all signs of intoxication.

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Where are we seeing this?

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Arrest report/affidavit

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Based on the video:

It appears that the officer not only is incompetent but lied in the report to cover her ass.
In the dash cam video there is no stain or indication of a wet spot on Mrs. West's shirt. How did she know about alcohol in the cup without testing it? The chief said that they didn't analyze the cup.

That officer wanted the DWI really bad and did everything she could to get it.

As for the driving on the fog line, I see it all of the time when idiots are texting as they are driving. I am sure that many commenting here about her bad driving are even more guilty of this sin.

She also could have been checking on the baby. Not smart but not DWI.

Also the shoulder became a driving lane as Mrs West was driving there. I don't think that was an issue here but it should be considered.

She didn't pull over into the center lane to stop. She stopped at a red light, and waited for the police car with flashing lights to pass. Then the officer had to tell her to pull over. Mrs. West likely didn't have any clue until that time that she was being pulled over. Who knows what the officer told her from there? Perhaps she gave instructions that were just as clear as she gave during the field tests.

The officer was so focused on DWI she never considered explaining why Mrs West was stopped. Or asking whether she had been drinking or why she was driving around on the shoulder. Mrs. West had no clue what was happening until the officer pulled out the breathalyzer. Obviously this was the first time she had been pulled over for suspected DWI, possibly it could have been her first ticket. She mentioned that she thought that she was being pulled over for a lane change without signaling. If you rarely if ever get traffic ticket, and suddenly the officer makes you do silly tests, I would understand her being confused and distracted.

Overall the officer was so intent on getting a DWI arrest that she failed to look at the big picture. That is a real sign of inexperience and poor training.

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Have you watched the entirety of the body camera and dash camera footage or just the 14-minute edited version available on YouTube? If you have not watched all of the video, then how can you be sure what instructions Mrs. West was given?

Driving on the shoulder is a crime. Parking in the middle of a highway is a crime. Parking in the right lane of a freeway is a crime. All are possible indicators of intoxication. You are welcome to go to court and argue that there was lemonade in the cup. No one is ever going to test it. None of that changes the fact that this was a valid arrest and enough PC existed in the state of Texas to generate a warrant for her blood.

When it comes back that she had alcohol in her system, are you going to come back on here and publicly apologize for insulting the officer for getting it right while you got it wrong?

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I watch the clip posted in this thread. My impression was Mrs West had no idea why she was stopped. The officer never questioned her about whether or not she had been drinking and that video. If she had asked her, Mrs West should not have been surprised when the officer pulled out the breathalyzer. If she were a long term alcoholic, as some had suggest odds would be that she would have understood what was happening.

Based upon seeing a frightened, disoriented grandmother who appeared to be obedient and courteous as the officer was conducting the tests, I wouldn't be surprised if her blood alcohol test ends up being zero.

Will you admit that the officer got it wrong and showed lack of experience if the blood alcohol is zero or very low?

If the police report states that Mrs West had a spilled alcohol stain on her shirt, the video does not support that claim.

I am not a police officer, and I have never been stopped for suspicion of DUI. I only noted my observations based upon the posted video.

Also, driving on the shoulder is a traffic violation. It mostly happens from distracted driving, which is another traffic violation. Freeways don't have cross streets and traffic lights. She was not in a freeway. Stopping for a red light is not a crime. It actually is a crime to not stop.

Not moving after the light changes is not correct but someone who doesn't often get stopped by the police with red and blue lights flashing behinds might not comprehend what to do in the heat of the moment.

You are making things up that did not happen.