***** Loki - Season 1 Discussion Thread (Wednesdays - Jun 9 - Jul 14) *****

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YouBet
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In reply to TCTTS • 7:25a, 6/10/21
AG
TCTTS said:
C@LAg said:
JCRiley09 said:
So for Loki to have knowledge of and be killing TVA through time, he would need to know about them and have some kind of time travel device so does this Loki start all this time travel mischief in the future of this timeline?
the twist could still be that it is a GOOD Loki that is doing this - destroying the evil TVA that holds an oppressive grip on the timeline, denying people their free will.

he could also be gathering the canisters of time-restting goop for some purpose. maybe reboot himself back into the MCU prime.

Good call. This would be my guess as well at this point. Especially after watching the Screencrush video above. Would also prove Loki right, that he's going to burn it all to the ground, just like he said - only for noble/good reasons as opposed to his misguided "glorious purpose."


He's the God of Mischief and Owen ignores this at his own peril! Loki succumbing to his fate at the end and admitting his "defeat" and why he does what he does could easily be a ruse.

To the free will comment, he just watched his mom die because of him in the future. There is no way he's not going to fight that future and try to prevent it. His mother is everything to him.
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YouBet
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7:28a, 6/10/21
AG
I also loved that the whole DB Cooper mythos happened because he lost a bet with Thor. Lol.
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KCup17
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8:49a, 6/10/21
AG
Question: Does the existence of the TVA in any way connect to the Sanctum Sacorum? I guess prior to this episode I thought the TVA's job was done by the Sorcerer Supreme.

Also wouldn't Steve Rogers going back in time to visit Agent Carter create a branch in the Sacred Timeline that would then need to be rectified by the TVA?
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Andyzipp
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In reply to KCup17 • 8:58a, 6/10/21
AG
KCup17 said:
Question: Does the existence of the TVA in any way connect to the Sanctum Sacorum? I guess prior to this episode I thought the TVA's job was done by the Sorcerer Supreme.

Also wouldn't Steve Rogers going back in time to visit Agent Carter create a branch in the Sacred Timeline that would then need to be rectified by the TVA?
In the comics, the TVA was created by the last living Time Master. IIRC, he traveled back to the beginning of the timeline and put the TVA in place. The sole purpose of the TVA is to ensure the continued existence of the Time Masters, and so the "Sacred" Timeline is just the one that does that. They clip any branches that jeopardize their existence/prosperity. There aren't any storylines with the TVA and Strange or the Ancient One (at least none that I can think of). They were part of a Fantastic Four story line, and I think She Hulk as well.

How that's going to be handled on Loki remains to be seen.
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boy09
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In reply to KCup17 • 8:59a, 6/10/21
AG
KCup17 said:
Also wouldn't Steve Rogers going back in time to visit Agent Carter create a branch in the Sacred Timeline that would then need to be rectified by the TVA?
Seems like they'll try to get around stuff like this by just saying, "Oh, that's the way it was supposed to be.." Somewhere in the episode Loki tried to throw the Avengers under the bus for messing with time travel, and Mobius just said, "Yeah, they were supposed to do that." Or something along those lines.
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Red Five
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In reply to TCTTS • 9:08a, 6/10/21
AG
TCTTS said:
israeliag said:
That was fantastic. Easily the most cinematic feeling of the Marvel shows yet. Has this great Legion art, set, and weirdness style going for it that I can't get enough of.

The world does feel a bit Umbrella Acadmey, but it's Marvel Universe so I'm looking forward to how they take on that time authority theme.

Pretty tough job of cramming 2-3 movies of character development into one episode of TV, but it kinda worked, but specially with the twist of who the villain is.

Oh, and speaking of Owen Wilson... after just one episode, I now consider it a travesty that he hasn't been a part of the MCU for years. Because he's so damn perfect for this universe, and man is it great to have him back like this.
I thought Owen Wilson did a great job of being Owen Wilson without Owen Wilsoning it up, if that makes sense. He struck just the right tone for the character.
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Cinco Ranch Aggie
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9:21a, 6/10/21
AG
Nice start to the series.

I really enjoyed the 8mm run through Loki's future; that was unexpectedly well done on an emotional level. I also kept getting a Monsters Inc. vibe with all that set design and some massive facility that exists on a different plane or what-have-you from the rest of reality.

And hopefully it was just me, but I had a feeling that this time manipulation could be a way to undo certain things that we know to have happened, like say, bringing Black Widow back from the dead. I hope that was just an out-there thought I had while watching last night, as I'd prefer she remain dead, otherwise that cheapens her sacrifice.
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KCup17
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In reply to boy09 • 9:25a, 6/10/21
AG
I guess if it doesn't jeopardize the existence of the Sacred timeline then it doesn't really matter to them then does it?
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Definitely Not A Cop
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In reply to Red Five • 9:25a, 6/10/21
AG
Red Five said:
TCTTS said:
israeliag said:
That was fantastic. Easily the most cinematic feeling of the Marvel shows yet. Has this great Legion art, set, and weirdness style going for it that I can't get enough of.

The world does feel a bit Umbrella Acadmey, but it's Marvel Universe so I'm looking forward to how they take on that time authority theme.

Pretty tough job of cramming 2-3 movies of character development into one episode of TV, but it kinda worked, but specially with the twist of who the villain is.

Oh, and speaking of Owen Wilson... after just one episode, I now consider it a travesty that he hasn't been a part of the MCU for years. Because he's so damn perfect for this universe, and man is it great to have him back like this.
I thought Owen Wilson did a great job of being Owen Wilson without Owen Wilsoning it up, if that makes sense. He struck just the right tone for the character.


Yeah it's too bad they couldn't have gotten Jackie Chan for the TVA lady who doesn't like Loki. I always loved the movies like Shanghai Noon where they played off each other
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KCup17
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In reply to Andyzipp • 9:35a, 6/10/21
AG
Thanks for the insight. I think when the Ancient One explained to Hulk in End Game the splitting of the timeline I presumed the Ancient One's job was to preserve the timeline. I guess that it isn't.

I did find it really interesting when Loki opened a drawer that had all the infinity stones and the guy behind the desk just laughed them off. Just shows how meaningless they are in this environment which then tells us this is an adventure of greater magnitude.
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bobinator
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In reply to boy09 • 9:45a, 6/10/21
AG
boy09 said:
KCup17 said:
Also wouldn't Steve Rogers going back in time to visit Agent Carter create a branch in the Sacred Timeline that would then need to be rectified by the TVA?
Seems like they'll try to get around stuff like this by just saying, "Oh, that's the way it was supposed to be.." Somewhere in the episode Loki tried to throw the Avengers under the bus for messing with time travel, and Mobius just said, "Yeah, they were supposed to do that." Or something along those lines.
It makes a lot more sense in my head now that someone said that in the comics the Timekeepers were created by the TVA in order to create the TVA.

They know how they want it to end, so they only clip the branches that don't lead to that end.

The branch(es) created by the Avengers lead to the ending they want, so they don't clip them.

That's at least what's going on in my head.
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rhutton125
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9:57a, 6/10/21
AG
The Ancient One may have been thinking more about self-preservation. "I give you the Time Stone, you can go stop Thanos but my entire reality will die in about 5 minutes." So Bruce says they'll return the stones and clip the branches.

It is interesting though... Loki picks up a box because the Avengers did some time stuff, he's now a variant. Steve goes to another reality to live with his former fling, seemingly no problem. Unless this is a point back in the ledger of "it wasn't an alternate reality!" on the Steve time travel discussion.

TBD, we'll likely learn a lot more with each passing week.
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KCup17
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9:59a, 6/10/21
AG
Sorry to keep peppering this thread with questions but do you think that the villain is actually Loki or a villain who is just like Loki in motivations?
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emando2000
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In reply to AgPediRPh • 10:00a, 6/10/21
AG
AgPediRPh said:
Love how the DB Cooper mystery was explained. As soon as Loki said "I have a bomb", I realized what was going on
Remind me? I don't remember this at all.
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YouBet
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In reply to emando2000 • 10:08a, 6/10/21
AG
emando2000 said:
AgPediRPh said:
Love how the DB Cooper mystery was explained. As soon as Loki said "I have a bomb", I realized what was going on
Remind me? I don't remember this at all.
The whole sequence on the plane?
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emando2000
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In reply to YouBet • 10:15a, 6/10/21
AG
YouBet said:
emando2000 said:
AgPediRPh said:
Love how the DB Cooper mystery was explained. As soon as Loki said "I have a bomb", I realized what was going on
Remind me? I don't remember this at all.
The whole sequence on the plane?
I saw that but didn't know which movie that was from and neither did the person I was watching it with.
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JCRiley09
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In reply to emando2000 • 10:16a, 6/10/21
AG
Google "DB Cooper" mystery

It's wild
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YouBet
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In reply to emando2000 • 10:18a, 6/10/21
AG
emando2000 said:
YouBet said:
emando2000 said:
AgPediRPh said:
Love how the DB Cooper mystery was explained. As soon as Loki said "I have a bomb", I realized what was going on
Remind me? I don't remember this at all.
The whole sequence on the plane?
I saw that but didn't know which movie that was from and neither did the person I was watching it with.
Oh, you mean you don't know who DB Cooper. Yeah, look it up. One of the most famous unsolved mysteries in the US.
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bobinator
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In reply to rhutton125 • 10:27a, 6/10/21
AG
Yeah, Loki being a variant without even time traveling himself is a tough break.
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lunchbox
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In reply to KCup17 • 10:34a, 6/10/21
KCup17 said:
Sorry to keep peppering this thread with questions but do you think that the villain is actually Loki or a villain who is just like Loki in motivations?
Hear me out.

What if this is where Lady Sif went?

No, I don't believe she is the villain but if I had to put $5 on a longshot...
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emando2000
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In reply to YouBet • 10:37a, 6/10/21
AG
Ahhhhh.... got it, thanks!
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TexasAggie_02
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11:08a, 6/10/21
AG
I wonder if Loki pocketed a time stone. Out of all the stones in the drawer, that is the one he picked up. I realize that they don't work in the TVA realm, but once he gets back to "reality," it will.

I was wondering how this other "bad" loki was hopping around committing time crimes. Either he got a hold of one of the TVA's time travel portal thingys, or he has a time stone.

Also, since the TVA can hop around through time, why do they always show up after bad Loki has committed a crime? why not show up before or during? I mean, they were johnny on the spot with Loki in Mongolia.
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YouBet
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In reply to TexasAggie_02 • 11:13a, 6/10/21
AG
TexasAggie_02 said:
I wonder if Loki pocketed a time stone. Out of all the stones in the drawer, that is the one he picked up. I realize that they don't work in the TVA realm, but once he gets back to "reality," it will.

I was wondering how this other "bad" loki was hopping around committing time crimes. Either he got a hold of one of the TVA's time travel portal thingys, or he has a time stone.

Also, since the TVA can hop around through time, why do they always show up after bad Loki has committed a crime? why not show up before or during? I mean, they were johnny on the spot with Loki in Mongolia.
Bad Loki did take the time eraser tool in that last scene but maybe that's its only capability. You would assume he has several of them since he's killed multiple Minutemen.
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C@LAg
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In reply to TexasAggie_02 • 11:15a, 6/10/21
TexasAggie_02 said:
I wonder if Loki pocketed a time stone. Out of all the stones in the drawer, that is the one he picked up. I realize that they don't work in the TVA realm, but once he gets back to "reality," it will.

I was wondering how this other "bad" loki was hopping around committing time crimes. Either he got a hold of one of the TVA's time travel portal thingys, or he has a time stone.

Also, since the TVA can hop around through time, why do they always show up after bad Loki has committed a crime? why not show up before or during? I mean, they were johnny on the spot with Loki in Mongolia.
because it is a variant doing it. it is not part of the sacred timeline for which they know all the details, which is why they are keen take care of it.
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KCup17
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In reply to lunchbox • 11:19a, 6/10/21
AG
That would be an interesting twist. Her absence in Ragnarok means that she is still alive I presume
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bobinator
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In reply to C@LAg • 11:25a, 6/10/21
AG
C@LAg said:
TexasAggie_02 said:
Also, since the TVA can hop around through time, why do they always show up after bad Loki has committed a crime? why not show up before or during? I mean, they were johnny on the spot with Loki in Mongolia.
because it is a variant doing it. it is not part of the sacred timeline for which they know all the details, which is why they are keen take care of it.
I think this is a little more complicated than that but it's hopefully something they'll explain.

If they know X event at Y time caused a possible nexus event, which they do know, you'd think they'd travel back to before Y to prevent X from doing it. That seems perfectly within their capability.
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C@LAg
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In reply to bobinator • 11:27a, 6/10/21
bobinator said:
C@LAg said:
TexasAggie_02 said:
Also, since the TVA can hop around through time, why do they always show up after bad Loki has committed a crime? why not show up before or during? I mean, they were johnny on the spot with Loki in Mongolia.
because it is a variant doing it. it is not part of the sacred timeline for which they know all the details, which is why they are keen take care of it.
I think this is a little more complicated than that but it's hopefully something they'll explain.

If they know X event at Y time caused a possible nexus event, which they do know, you'd think they'd travel back to before Y to prevent X from doing it. That seems perfectly within their capability.
more likely the writers just did not think it through as if that would work, there would never be an issue with resolving the problem.

that is why I really hate that the MCU doubled down on this time travel and multiverse bull**** instead of just focusing on expanding their existing universe with more characters and stories.
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JCRiley09
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11:31a, 6/10/21
AG
My brain thinks of time travel like Back to the Future

Then Banner says "that's not how time travel works"

And now I still haven't quite put it all together about how time travel works. But I'm sure if you asked Marvel your question about "just show up earlier," the response would be "that's not how time travel works"
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bobinator
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In reply to C@LAg • 11:33a, 6/10/21
AG
Nah, I bet they'll come up with some sort of reason to explain it.

Just off the top of my head it could be impossible-by-design for the TVA to travel into the sacred timeline, so they can't actually travel to a branch until after the nexus event has happened and created it, so that's why they have to wait and then they show up and erase it and go back to their non-time.
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MASAXET
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In reply to boy09 • 11:34a, 6/10/21
AG
boy09 said:
KCup17 said:
Also wouldn't Steve Rogers going back in time to visit Agent Carter create a branch in the Sacred Timeline that would then need to be rectified by the TVA?
Seems like they'll try to get around stuff like this by just saying, "Oh, that's the way it was supposed to be.." Somewhere in the episode Loki tried to throw the Avengers under the bus for messing with time travel, and Mobius just said, "Yeah, they were supposed to do that." Or something along those lines.
A question about this though:

Loki said that he didn't mess with time it was the Avengers that did . How does Loki know this? From his perspective, he just saw some weird stuff go down while getting arrested in NYC and then grabbed the tesseract when it popped out of the case. He doesn't know about the plot by the Avengers to go back in time to get the stones.
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Dro07
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11:37a, 6/10/21
AG
all this to just merge two "timelines" so we can add mutants
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AverageJones
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In reply to MASAXET • 11:38a, 6/10/21
AG
MASAXET said:
boy09 said:
KCup17 said:
Also wouldn't Steve Rogers going back in time to visit Agent Carter create a branch in the Sacred Timeline that would then need to be rectified by the TVA?
Seems like they'll try to get around stuff like this by just saying, "Oh, that's the way it was supposed to be.." Somewhere in the episode Loki tried to throw the Avengers under the bus for messing with time travel, and Mobius just said, "Yeah, they were supposed to do that." Or something along those lines.
A question about this though:

Loki said that he didn't mess with time it was the Avengers that did . How does Loki know this? From his perspective, he just saw some weird stuff go down while getting arrested in NYC and then grabbed the tesseract when it popped out of the case. He doesn't know about the plot by the Avengers to go back in time to get the stones.
He said to Owen Wilson that he knew they were there messing with something:

"Oh believe me, you can smell the cologne of two Tony Starks"
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TCTTS
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In reply to MASAXET • 11:40a, 6/10/21
AG
He's that smart and aware, which I like. He literally sniffed it out, with the too much cologne comment, seeing the tesseract box move on its own, etc.
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bobinator
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In reply to MASAXET • 11:40a, 6/10/21
AG
He mentioned 'smelling the cologne of two Tony Starks.' Between watching what happened with the case holding the Tesseract when ant man sent it flying to future Tony and then being arrested by the TVA it appears Loki was able to piece together that there was some time shenanigans involved and he knows he didn't do it.
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C@LAg
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11:41a, 6/10/21
Also, as he is magically inclined and trained by Frigga, maybe he too can "see with more than eyes".
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