Yup, there's something to this. Joaquin Phoenix doesn't appear to just sign up for stuff like this,( he apparently turned down Dr.Strange and other comic book movies along the way), without there being something significant to latch onto. This seems like A joker Travis Bickle which is fascinating.

Brian Earl Spilner said:

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I feel really unsure about this one. Like it could be great, or could be terrible.

We've never seen a Joker origin story go this in depth, and I wonder if the mystery being completely removed might hurt the character.

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Have to agree with Duncan Idaho's comment about liking the Joker even more after "The Killing Joke" (one of the best Joker stories of all time). In The Killing Joke Joker states he prefers his past to be multiple choice, and Ledger's Joker reinforced that idea.

Would be amazing if the movie goes with an unreliable narrator type of thing that left things open to your interpretation.

JRC0811 said:

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Brian Earl Spilner said:

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I feel really unsure about this one. Like it could be great, or could be terrible.

We've never seen a Joker origin story go this in depth, and I wonder if the mystery being completely removed might hurt the character.

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Have to agree with Duncan Idaho's comment about liking the Joker even more after "The Killing Joke" (one of the best Joker stories of all time). In The Killing Joke Joker states he prefers his past to be multiple choice, and Ledger's Joker reinforced that idea.

Would be amazing if the movie goes with an unreliable narrator type of thing that left things open to your interpretation.

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I tend to think The Dark Knight handled the joker pretty much perfectly in regards to a lack of backstory, which makes my interest in this strange to say the least. This kind of movie usually goes against everything I believe about characters in fiction-the More mysterious the better- but I can't help but be intrigued by this.

Holy hell. This looks so interesting I have to watch when it comes out. I can't help but think Phoenix went to some dark places while this was made.

Also - that laugh.

So this will be the Joker coming to prominence at least 15 years before Batman comes on the scene? He's gonna be in his 50's by the time Batman starts facing off against him?

While it looks like a great psychological thriller about a guy down on his luck slowly going crazy, it just doesn't fit the Batman universe for me. Just MHO.

It's like how Gotham has handled all the rouges gallery of Batman villains. They have essentially introduced every single one while Bruce is still a teen. In the comics, Batman is blamed for all of these villains being created. But now in the Gotham world, they all existed prior to Batman.

Once again, this isn't meant to tie into any existing Batman movies or set any up future ones either. It's just a one-off. A fun experiment.

FTACO97 said:

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So this will be the Joker coming to prominence at least 15 years before Batman comes on the scene? He's gonna be in his 50's by the time Batman starts facing off against him?

While it looks like a great psychological thriller about a guy down on his luck slowly going crazy, it just doesn't fit the Batman universe for me. Just MHO.

It's like how Gotham has handled all the rouges gallery of Batman villains. They have essentially introduced every single one while Bruce is still a teen. In the comics, Batman is blamed for all of these villains being created. But now in the Gotham world, they all existed prior to Batman.

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Just think of them similar to Marvel's "What-If?" comics or other one-shots. Some of the more interesting comic books to come out have not always been tied to canon (Old Man Logan, Gotham by Gaslight).

And to think he was he lessor pheonix

TCTTS said:

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Once again, this isn't meant to tie into any existing Batman movies or set any up future ones either. It's just a one-off. A fun experiment.

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Understood and I do think it looks like a good story.

I'm still salty with how DC has blundered their 2 biggest characters.

Fingers crossed, but it sounds like DC is finally back on track, now that they're not trying to rush (or even attempt) a shared universe anymore.

ATM1876 said:

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FancyKetchup14 said:

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Also - that laugh.

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That first one is so awkward. Then you hear the laugh on the train...wow. Seems to be the perfect illustration of how this film is going to work. Awkward outcast to mysterious villain.

I really like the direction this is headed.

First glimpse, I kind of like the appearance more than Ledger's. Phoenix's face is such a great fit for the character.

Will definitely be seeing this.

Hmm..

TCTTS said:

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MuckRaker96 said:

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I feel like I just watched a combination of Taxi Driver and the prequel for Buffalo Bill from Silence of the Lambs starring De Niro's character from Cape Fear.

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Ha, did you mean to do a thumbs down? Because this reads like, "I feel like I just watched a combination of great movies and fantastically twisted characters all in one." What you described sounds ******* awesome, which is exactly what this trailer is.

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Definitely thumbs down.
Not interested in the trailer or the movie. /sorrynotsorry

Pretty sure it will eventually come out the camera guy just saw Joaquin Phoenix staggering around New York City one day and they just followed him around shooting video, then CGI-ed clown makeup on him in post.

Wow this is one of the better trailers I remember seeing in quite some time. And interesting analysis by TCTTS.

I would have just assumed it was some sort of prequel or a set-up for a future series of films but I like the one-off/what if approach you described. Badass.

Seems like every time I see Phoenix I think "What the f is wrong with his shoulders? Did I ever google that? I should." Then I look it up and seem to find no concrete answers. Most articles mention his cleft lip as his deformity and nothing about his shoulders.

Duncan Idaho said:

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ATM1876 said:

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I mean at least I am joking when I post something as dumb as that post was.

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The second half of my post was a joke. Sorry you didn't grasp it.

Nah, just don't like the idea or the look. I know Twitter says I am wrong, but i'll just have to live with it.

Why would you say that?

Why are all the DC movies so dark?

I didnt read comics much growing up, but were there stuff a lot darker than Marvel, et al? Or do their movies just turn out that way?

Sine poena nulla lex.

Sine poena nulla lex.

If this totally rules and Phoenix wins an Oscar and the thing does well commercially:

1. Will DC make this the launching point for the new Batman, and
2. Why WOULDN'T they do that?

I know they just got over the whole shared universe thing, but a Batman who comes into being in reaction to a Joker like this (instead of the opposite as is usually shown) seems like a strong foundation to me.

The new Reeves Batman isn't even in production yet, right?

TCTTS said:

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Wow. This looks even better than I thought it would. Waaay more of a straight up psychological drama than I anticipated, which is a great thing. How does someone watch this trailer and go, "Hmmm, I don't know about that." This looks like a beautiful, twisted, art house movie for adults that just so happens to feature a comic book character - something we've never seen before. How is that not exciting?

Again, this isn't meant to be THE origin story for the Joker. It's almost assuredly not going to tie into any greater franchise lore or set up any future films. It's simply an experimental "what if" of sorts. Isn't this the kind of stuff we've been wanting DC to try? Off-shoots and spin-offs and alternate takes on characters? I've finally arrived at a place where I don't need these characters to be treated so preciously or definitively . Let's mix it up. Let's throw stuff against the wall and see what sticks - and this definitely looks like it's going to stick.

By the way, that's Thomas Wayne on the TV saying, "What kind of coward would do something that cold blooded; someone who hides behind a mask." So good.

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This. And the term some of y'all are looking for is a "one-shot", which if this film is one of those (which it looks like), it should be awesome.

In the comic book publishing industry, a one-shot is a comic book published as a single, standalone issue, with a self-contained story, and not as part of an ongoing series or miniseries.

Sine poena nulla lex.

Sine poena nulla lex.

AliasMan02 said:

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If this totally rules and Phoenix wins an Oscar and the thing does well commercially:

1. Will DC make this the launching point for the new Batman, and
2. Why WOULDN'T they do that?

I know they just got over the whole shared universe thing, but a Batman who comes into being in reaction to a Joker like this (instead of the opposite as is usually shown) seems like a strong foundation to me.

The new Reeves Batman isn't even in production yet, right?

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Echoing C@LAg, Reeve's Batman isn't in production yet, but by October it will likely be cast, deep into pre-production, and relatively close to filming. WB isn't going to change course at that point. They're soon reaching the point of no return. Besides, this Joker movie has been in the works for a few years now, and they've had Reeve's under contract for a while now as well, so they would have already figured all this out by now and wouldn't be waiting to see how successful Joker is.

While not even remotely substantiated, there ARE rumors that Reeve's Batman MIGHT take place in the '90s, but that just doesn't make any sense to me. However, if, for some reason, that ends up being the time period, I guess Phoenix could technically play his iteration of the Joker in a sequel to the new Batman. They'd have to age him a few years, of course, but I guess it could work.

That said, again, all indications are pointing toward this new Batman being set in present day - or at least a version of our present day - and being in a completely different universe from anything we've seen yet. Also, I just don't see Phoenix coming back to the role either. I imagine part of his commitment to this movie was likely due in part to not having to commit to any sequels.

C@LAg said:

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Claude! said:

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I'm kind of with you, Muck, in that I'm not really interested. Phoenix's performance looks interesting, but I'm not really into the "poor schlub has a breakdown" storyline. Kind of like Taxi Driver - I can recognize that it's a legitimately good movie, but it's not for me.

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Agreed. Even more so since the entire story is irrelevant in the greater scheme of things. No impact on the DCU (I am fine with that). But also no impact on the comics. it is an origin story with no follow through.

It may very well turn out to be a great movie. I am just not interested in it.

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I guess I can understand this not being certain people's jam in general, save for the bolded section above. Why do these movies HAVE to connect or be part of "the greater scheme of things"? Why does that factor in to your interest? Is There Will Be Blood "irrelevant" because it doesn't tie into a greater expanded universe? Why can't a movie like this just be a movie?