Couple of clowns...
New Joker!
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Last: 2 yr ago by Duncan Idaho
Couple of clowns...
Would love to see a duel movie that is similar to Joker and batman begins, but from each POV with some interaction between the two.TCTTS said:
Exactly. I couldn't imagine the version we got going on to be the Joker that takes on Batman, etc, even 15 years from now or whatever.
I agree that the Joker we got by the end of the film couldn't stand up to Batman (not thoughtful enough, not confident enough), but given the arc and growth he went through in the film and extrapolating it out a few years? Yes, I could see him be at that level.TCTTS said:
Exactly. I couldn't imagine the version we got going on to be the Joker that takes on Batman, etc, even 15 years from now or whatever.
Also, Batman is, what, eight in this film? Pretty sure Joker could stand up to an eight year old
But, Bruce with another 15 years vs. this Joker at that point? That sounds pretty interesting to me.
israeliag said:I agree that the Joker we got by the end of the film couldn't stand up to Batman (not thoughtful enough, not confident enough), but given the arc and growth he went through in the film and extrapolating it out a few years? Yes, I could see him be at that level.TCTTS said:
Exactly. I couldn't imagine the version we got going on to be the Joker that takes on Batman, etc, even 15 years from now or whatever.
Also, Batman is, what, eight in this film? Pretty sure Joker could stand up to an eight year old
But, Bruce with another 15 years vs. this Joker at that point? That sounds pretty interesting to me.
Ding ding ding
Underpowered Joker vs 8 year old Batman was already done, it's called Home Alone.
I enjoyed the film and would watch it again, but after thinking it over something doesn't sit well with me.
Joker's motivation is more vigilantism than madness. Traditionally, Joker kills people without reason. In this movie, Joker kills people because they had wronged him in some way. It's more about a twisted sense of revenge than actual madness.
Joker's motivation is more vigilantism than madness. Traditionally, Joker kills people without reason. In this movie, Joker kills people because they had wronged him in some way. It's more about a twisted sense of revenge than actual madness.
Bobcat06 said:
I enjoyed the film and would watch it again, but after thinking it over something doesn't sit well with me.
Joker's motivation is more vigilantism than madness. Traditionally, Joker kills people without reason. In this movie, Joker kills people because they had wronged him in some way. It's more about a twisted sense of revenge than actual madness.
I think we see that transformatiom at the end and its highlighted by when he smears the classic.blood smile on top of the car. Hes found madness makes him happy. The chaos is what got him noticed...hes found his calling, if you will
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Saw this last night. Don't have much to add to the conversation, but here is my quick review:
Is Joker social commentary about elitism v populism or a portrait of a man unraveling or a study on mental illness or a comic book origin story? It is trying to be all of them, and I'm not sure it succeeds at being any of them. The troubling thing is that in tying them all together, the film makes a statement I'm not sure the filmmakers intended.
And also, depending on how you look at it, it either waters down one of the most interesting, captivating and terrifying comic book villains of all time, or it turns him into a folk hero. I'm not really a fan of either result.
BUT the cinematography is beautiful. And the score.
Also Pheonix is good, I guess, but how hard is it to act like a crazy, mopey person? Sure he lost a lot of weight for the role, but I mean his acting isn't THAT impressive to me. I think what Brad Pitt does in Ad Astra is much more impressive than Pheonix in this, because Pitt accomplishes much more with so much less, if that makes sense. Not trying to troll on Pheonix's performance. I just think its overhyped.
Is Joker social commentary about elitism v populism or a portrait of a man unraveling or a study on mental illness or a comic book origin story? It is trying to be all of them, and I'm not sure it succeeds at being any of them. The troubling thing is that in tying them all together, the film makes a statement I'm not sure the filmmakers intended.
And also, depending on how you look at it, it either waters down one of the most interesting, captivating and terrifying comic book villains of all time, or it turns him into a folk hero. I'm not really a fan of either result.
BUT the cinematography is beautiful. And the score.
Also Pheonix is good, I guess, but how hard is it to act like a crazy, mopey person? Sure he lost a lot of weight for the role, but I mean his acting isn't THAT impressive to me. I think what Brad Pitt does in Ad Astra is much more impressive than Pheonix in this, because Pitt accomplishes much more with so much less, if that makes sense. Not trying to troll on Pheonix's performance. I just think its overhyped.
THIS is the crux of the why I'm not all in on this movie. Felt very divisive. Posited the worldview that there are Haves, there are Have Nots, and nothing in between. And you know, maybe that IS becoming the case in huge blue state metropolises as the middle class votes w their feet and leaves. It really felt like the movie was justifying a Kill The Rich vibe and selling the Joker as the crazed folk hero messiah which lit the match to the powder keg. It pushed a worldview that there are Rich a-holes on one side and whole swath of suckers on the other side and you may as well riot because the entire edifice is rotten.veryfuller said:
Is Joker social commentary about elitism v populism or a portrait of a man unraveling or a study on mental illness or a comic book origin story? It is trying to be all of them, and I'm not sure it succeeds at being any of them. The troubling thing is that in tying them all together, the film makes a statement I'm not sure the filmmakers intended.
And also, depending on how you look at it, it either waters down one of the most interesting, captivating and terrifying comic book villains of all time, or it turns him into a folk hero. I'm not really a fan of either result.
Agreed. And dark AF.Quote:
BUT the cinematography is beautiful. And the score.
... and NOT off yourself before the movie is released? Apparently pretty hard.Quote:
Also Pheonix is good, I guess, but how hard is it to act like a crazy, mopey person? .
Plenty?_lefraud_ said:
There was plenty of comic relief...not sure what movie you saw.
There were only about two or three funny scenes in the entire movie.
This explains my take on this movie.dreyOO said:
That movie was a real turd. Didn't read reviews but heard Phoenix was great.
Thought his rendition was pretty great. But I didn't like the plotline at all. I won't spoil it, but just dumb.
And it was slow as hell. My wife fell asleep 3 times. The whole crowd was yawning throughout.
Could feel the relief when it was finally over.
I really wanted to like it more....but the movie was just too slow for my liking. JQ does a phenomenal job acting....but I doubt I will want to see this movie ever again.
Kinda disappointing because the 1989 Batman and the Dark Knight are two of my favorite movies.
Holding incredibly well. $13.9M Tuesday.
Acting and cinematography were top notch. That said, I didn't think it was a great film.
On another note it seemed obvious a Batman vs Joker would be in the works but I read it will never happen under Todd Phillips, sad.
On another note it seemed obvious a Batman vs Joker would be in the works but I read it will never happen under Todd Phillips, sad.
I thought this movie was very well done. I like the dark comic book movies and am a huge Batman fan. I know some of you have objected to this, but I think it would be great if they designed a batman universe where movies over the course of 10 ish years all were connected. I want to watch more. The Bale/Nolan movies were great, but they were just 3 movies. What marvel did with their universe was amazing. I dont need all of DC involved, just Gotham. Plenty in Gotham to make tons of movies and TV shows.
I saw this tonight. Really good. Nice to see a movie that makes you think.
Joaquin is unbelievable and the score and cinematography were fantastic. And the truly amazing part was, as a white male, I saw it and didn't want to commit a mass shooting afterword! Amazing!
Joaquin is unbelievable and the score and cinematography were fantastic. And the truly amazing part was, as a white male, I saw it and didn't want to commit a mass shooting afterword! Amazing!
This performance stuck with me over the past week. I see a lot of movies and few do that. Kudos to WB. Their DC property was hot garbage a year ago. Since then, we've had Aquaman, Shazam and Joker. That is an amazing turnaround. Great time to be a comic book movie fan.
veryfuller said:
Saw this last night. Don't have much to add to the conversation, but here is my quick review:
Is Joker social commentary about elitism v populism or a portrait of a man unraveling or a study on mental illness or a comic book origin story? It is trying to be all of them, and I'm not sure it succeeds at being any of them. The troubling thing is that in tying them all together, the film makes a statement I'm not sure the filmmakers intended.
And also, depending on how you look at it, it either waters down one of the most interesting, captivating and terrifying comic book villains of all time, or it turns him into a folk hero. I'm not really a fan of either result.
BUT the cinematography is beautiful. And the score.
Also Pheonix is good, I guess, but how hard is it to act like a crazy, mopey person? Sure he lost a lot of weight for the role, but I mean his acting isn't THAT impressive to me. I think what Brad Pitt does in Ad Astra is much more impressive than Pheonix in this, because Pitt accomplishes much more with so much less, if that makes sense. Not trying to troll on Pheonix's performance. I just think its overhyped.
I think a lot of people are missing out on the fact that THE MEDIA COMPLETELY CREATED THE JOKER.
He stated several times that his actions were not political at all.
When he killed those the 1st two people on the train it was arguably self defense, the third one not so much.
However none of the 3 were killed because they were "rich".
Media completely manufactured a story that turned into a rich vs poor thing...much like the media does today.
veryfuller said:
Also Pheonix is good, I guess, but how hard is it to act like a crazy, mopey person? Sure he lost a lot of weight for the role, but I mean his acting isn't THAT impressive to me.
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I don't think I'm missing that point. That is part of the argument for watering down the villain. He has lost much of his agency because he is made into this folk hero. This could have been an interesting film if you took out all the comic book references and made it just about Arther's story, but instead they made it an origin story for arguable the greatest comic book villain of all time. I'm not a fan of that origin story for this character.
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That probably is a bit more troll-y than I intended it. He was good, but probably over-hyped for me going in.
From the way you are talking, I'm not so sure you would have been happy with any origin story. But someone described it as this "at the end, you see him truly happy with all the chaos surrounding him" He realized that he could finally have some control.
I agree with you on the remove comic book stuff and it's a solid movie on its own. I actually described it as "not a comic book movie."
I agree with you on the remove comic book stuff and it's a solid movie on its own. I actually described it as "not a comic book movie."
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You are probably right. The Joker seems to be pure evil. He isn't a product of a bad world but a rotten individual driving chaos into the world. I think any origin story that tries to explain how he came to be that way makes him more sympathetic, and in the end takes away from him being feared. They could have done something closer to We Need to Talk About Kevin, where something is completely and inexplicably broken about him from the beginning, and showed that at a young age, with him gaining an understanding of that and using it. I think making the Joker a product of a bad world diminishes him as a character.
I know this movie isn't supposed to be comic book Joker, but Joker absolutely has a plethora of followers in the comics that cause chaos just like this. And to go even further, the Jokerz gang in Batman Beyond continue his legacy and even try to bring him back to life using Bruce Wayne's body.
Max Power said:
Good, not great, my thought as well.
The Good:
Phoenix is really outstanding.
You feel the tension of this film, it's uncomfortable.
The violence is shocking at times.
Looks like 70s NYC, great set design.
The Not: I think the creation of The Joker being a combination of mental illness, amongst other factors, felt a little bit lazy in all honesty. Where Batman was a hero created by a man to save Gotham, I always thought Joker should be the complete antithesis, a villain created by Gotham that started as a regular guy systematically broken by the city and its people. He and his mother both being mentally ill just didn't fit for me. I didn't think the Wayne family was at all necessary to even be in the film, it may have been just to ground it in the Batman universe, but the film itself is the same without the Wayne family other than perhaps the them getting gunned down, that's the only scene that should have been there. I like the idea of him being abandoned/adopted, but not trying to have him believe Thomas Wayne was his father.
I had high hopes but the hype is off. Also, people need to calm the hell down that were referring to this film as dangerous. It's a movie, relax.
I mean, isn't the Joker you just described the lazy approach? That's Joker everyone expects and has always been portrayed.
I agree the movie was a bit slow, but I loved the ending. I also appreciate the creativity and the way they made this their own. Also, I know it's natural to make comparisons to other portrayals of The Joker, but I think people should understand these are different portrayals of the same character. Technically The Joker doesn't even arrive in this movie until the very end. It's not an apples to apples comparison which to me speaks to the creativity of this screenplay.
Tracking at $50M in its second weekend. Wow, what a hold. Venom did $35M.
I think this was a good movie but over-hyped by this crowd and by the "warnings" about dangers during viewings. I didn't feel it was as dark as it was supposed to be. Not as violent as I feared either.
I do agree with the poster previously who mentioned regret that they had him start with a history of abuse and mental illness before becoming the Joker instead of turning a normal, rational man into the Joker but this was more realistic.
I do agree with the poster previously who mentioned regret that they had him start with a history of abuse and mental illness before becoming the Joker instead of turning a normal, rational man into the Joker but this was more realistic.
Make that $58M+.
Gemini Man flopping hard.
Gemini Man flopping hard.
Just saw it tonight. I thought it was a very good movie, but not the type I want to watch again.
I think there was some interesting commentary that runs deeper than rich vs poor.
I also think a sequel with a hyper realistic Batman portrayal, where he's not super powered and he is shown dealing with his own serious mental health problems, would be a really interesting twist for the genre.
I think there was some interesting commentary that runs deeper than rich vs poor.
I also think a sequel with a hyper realistic Batman portrayal, where he's not super powered and he is shown dealing with his own serious mental health problems, would be a really interesting twist for the genre.
Bob_Ag said:Max Power said:
Good, not great, my thought as well.
The Good:
Phoenix is really outstanding.
You feel the tension of this film, it's uncomfortable.
The violence is shocking at times.
Looks like 70s NYC, great set design.
The Not: I think the creation of The Joker being a combination of mental illness, amongst other factors, felt a little bit lazy in all honesty. Where Batman was a hero created by a man to save Gotham, I always thought Joker should be the complete antithesis, a villain created by Gotham that started as a regular guy systematically broken by the city and its people. He and his mother both being mentally ill just didn't fit for me. I didn't think the Wayne family was at all necessary to even be in the film, it may have been just to ground it in the Batman universe, but the film itself is the same without the Wayne family other than perhaps the them getting gunned down, that's the only scene that should have been there. I like the idea of him being abandoned/adopted, but not trying to have him believe Thomas Wayne was his father.
I had high hopes but the hype is off. Also, people need to calm the hell down that were referring to this film as dangerous. It's a movie, relax.
I mean, isn't the Joker you just described the lazy approach? That's Joker everyone expects and has always been portrayed.
I agree the movie was a bit slow, but I loved the ending. I also appreciate the creativity and the way they made this their own. Also, I know it's natural to make comparisons to other portrayals of The Joker, but I think people should understand these are different portrayals of the same character. Technically The Joker doesn't even arrive in this movie until the very end. It's not an apples to apples comparison which to me speaks to the creativity of this screenplay.
I don't know how anyone can say the approach that they took isn't lazy. The story is basically that people are mean to him while he deals with rejection and that justifies his violence. I don't understand why anyone thinks this movie has a deep meaning or message when it just utlilize's BS fear that people generally have toward mental illness. I guess one aspect of the film that really annoyed me is the very fact that it pins so much on mental illness which is just bull**** but as you can see by the number of people in this very thread saying its "realistic", its a common myth.
Where is the character development? Where's the plot? Where is there any depth?
This version of an origin story for the Joker is beyond lazy.
To be fair, I"m not sure there is a way to make a good origin story for this character but thats what they signed up for.
Quote:
I don't know how anyone can say the approach that they took isn't lazy.
Because it isn't.
I approached this movies with some preconceived expectations based off of a lot of responses on the previous two pages.
I have to say though, I'm not really sure what other plot development you want.
you slowly find out, after initially thinking that maybe TW was his father, that his mother was crazy, adopted a kid, had an abusive bf, who likely kicked in the boys skull causing his condition. Plus, the one real relationship with a normal person you think he may have is actually all bogus
I think you are more disappointed that there weren't other character interactions that told at a pace that made this feel more like a Nolan movie? It centers around 1 person...maybe 2.
I have to say though, I'm not really sure what other plot development you want.
you slowly find out, after initially thinking that maybe TW was his father, that his mother was crazy, adopted a kid, had an abusive bf, who likely kicked in the boys skull causing his condition. Plus, the one real relationship with a normal person you think he may have is actually all bogus
I think you are more disappointed that there weren't other character interactions that told at a pace that made this feel more like a Nolan movie? It centers around 1 person...maybe 2.
Just saw Joker. What a dark movie. The mental illness, the societal tension, the relationship with his mother, his history - all pulled together by excellent acting, cinematography, and score. Man, what a really good movie! But you don't feel all that good coming out of the theater...
“Ambition is when you expect yourself to close the gap between what you have and what you want.
Entitlement is when you expect others to close the gap between what you have and what you want.”— James Clear
Entitlement is when you expect others to close the gap between what you have and what you want.”— James Clear
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