I discussed it - answer my questions.

It's a non starter. It's an question with an unrealistic answer.

PabloSerna said:

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88planoAg said:

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PabloSerna said:

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powerbelly said:

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Reparations literally does nothing to fix that.

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There was a time just after the Civil War when the idea of a reparation would have made a difference. 40 acres and a mule were promised - that was canceled the very next administration. I think we (I want to emphasize WE) as a country need to discuss this and fit it into the budget. As I have pointed out before - we blew trillions of dollars on a recent war. I think we can do something.

+pablo

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Who gets reparations, especially '40 acres and a mule'?

How do families/individuals qualify for this?

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I have the same questions. As Coach Pop said, "We have to get to the reparations discussion" - what I am reading on here is that many don't want to even bring it up.

+pablo

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Some questions don't have answers. It's not that people don't want to bring it up, but there's no equitable, common sense procedure to get these supposed "reparations" to the places you believe they belong. And there is likewise no fair way to assess who owes who....which in my opinion is moot, because I don't believe anyone on this planet owes anybody anything for something that happened 150+ years ago.

PabloSerna said:

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88planoAg said:

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PabloSerna said:

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powerbelly said:

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Reparations literally does nothing to fix that.

---

There was a time just after the Civil War when the idea of a reparation would have made a difference. 40 acres and a mule were promised - that was canceled the very next administration. I think we (I want to emphasize WE) as a country need to discuss this and fit it into the budget. As I have pointed out before - we blew trillions of dollars on a recent war. I think we can do something.

+pablo

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Who gets reparations, especially '40 acres and a mule'?

How do families/individuals qualify for this?

---

I have the same questions. As Coach Pop said, "We have to get to the reparations discussion" - what I am reading on here is that many don't want to even bring it up.

+pablo

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Because it's a nonstarter and not needed.

I responded to this previously that I am in agreement with you and others, like Coach Popovich, that "we have to get to the reparations discussion" in order to move forward from here.

If what you write is genuine, then I am with you - we as a country need to put together a committee of experts to include economist, historians, etc. and get the ball rolling.

+pablo

I think the answer to 'who pays', according to those who support reparations, is the American government, because there is "plenty of money we already spend on wars". You can see it already in his answers.

It is absurd. The people of all colors paying into the government now need to turn around and gift - who, exactly? because of the sins of the past.

Taxes are everyone's $$. But taxes need to go to a specific portion of the American population to make things equitable because of ancestor sins.

Damn...i'm only second generation in this great country;Italian heritage...we were never oppresed

PabloSerna said:

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TxAg82 said:

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PabloSerna said:

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rbtexan said:

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If you believe in the concept of reparations, that defines with crystal clarity your naivete and blind bias.

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How so?

Do you think that the wealth that was created by slave owning families was right? You say I am naive, I challenge you to read for yourself the truth and draw your own conclusions. I have and that is not being naive.

+pablo

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There is no way of knowing whose wealth or what wealth may have been derived from African slavery, indentured servitude, or any of the other worldwide examples of slavery past or present.

Every time an American buys low cost textiles from Asia they are very likely benefitting from actual slavery or slave like conditions. Shall we begin reparations for the millions enslaved in Chinese factories?

Also - no I do not think economic profit from slavery was right or moral. And everyone who is concerned about it should take a close look at the supply chains of the goods they buy.

---

Bear with me for a minute.

I am grateful for the friendships I have with several close friends who are black. One friend in particular, over the course of 30 years, though various conversations (lunches, fishing trips, camping, et.) has help me see something I never did before.

I will point to a particular discussion we were having about segregation:

He tells me of a time when he was young and visiting his family in Mississippi. He and his brother wanted to go swimming at nearby public pool. It was in a predominantly white neighborhood. His grandmother asked him NOT to go. "Why not?" he asked her. Because that was the pool for the "white folks" - that he and his brother needed to go a different pool. "No grandma - we're going, this isn't 1950's." - something to that effect. He then tells me how his grandmother began to cry and beg him to not go - because he could be beaten or worse.

I was stunned. This was probably not even the case in the 1980's when this happened - but to his grandmother it might as well have been 1950. She was genuinely terrified for his safety. That is when I realized - I have no idea what black people went through.

It is a tragedy what happened. It doesn't need to stay that way. That's my point.

+pablo

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Sad story but it has absolutely nothing to do with addressing the points made by Pablo. Nice dodge.

rguff38 said:

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Damn...i'm only second generation in this great country;Italian heritage...we were never oppresed

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Not so fast, my friend....

Ag87H2O said:

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PabloSerna said:

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TxAg82 said:

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PabloSerna said:

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rbtexan said:

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If you believe in the concept of reparations, that defines with crystal clarity your naivete and blind bias.

---

How so?

Do you think that the wealth that was created by slave owning families was right? You say I am naive, I challenge you to read for yourself the truth and draw your own conclusions. I have and that is not being naive.

+pablo

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There is no way of knowing whose wealth or what wealth may have been derived from African slavery, indentured servitude, or any of the other worldwide examples of slavery past or present.

Every time an American buys low cost textiles from Asia they are very likely benefitting from actual slavery or slave like conditions. Shall we begin reparations for the millions enslaved in Chinese factories?

Also - no I do not think economic profit from slavery was right or moral. And everyone who is concerned about it should take a close look at the supply chains of the goods they buy.

---

Bear with me for a minute.

I am grateful for the friendships I have with several close friends who are black. One friend in particular, over the course of 30 years, though various conversations (lunches, fishing trips, camping, et.) has help me see something I never did before.

I will point to a particular discussion we were having about segregation:

He tells me of a time when he was young and visiting his family in Mississippi. He and his brother wanted to go swimming at nearby public pool. It was in a predominantly white neighborhood. His grandmother asked him NOT to go. "Why not?" he asked her. Because that was the pool for the "white folks" - that he and his brother needed to go a different pool. "No grandma - we're going, this isn't 1950's." - something to that effect. He then tells me how his grandmother began to cry and beg him to not go - because he could be beaten or worse.

I was stunned. This was probably not even the case in the 1980's when this happened - but to his grandmother it might as well have been 1950. She was genuinely terrified for his safety. That is when I realized - I have no idea what black people went through.

It is a tragedy what happened. It doesn't need to stay that way. That's my point.

+pablo

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Sad story but it has absolutely nothing to do with addressing the points made by Pablo. Nice dodge.

---

Yeah. Nothing to do with my points. But I see this as a great example of the improvement of Amaerican race relations. In this story in a 30 year time frame we go from a grandmother who is scared of associating with white people (probably from very valid personal experience - I impose no judgment at all) to a grandson who never gave a second thought to going to the "white" pool.

What blacks went through in this country was a tragedy. This story is not one of tragedy. In this case the tragedy, indeed, did not stay that way.

PabloSerna said:

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I was stunned. This was probably not even the case in the 1980's when this happened - but to his grandmother it might as well have been 1950. She was genuinely terrified for his safety. That is when I realized - I have no idea what black people went through.

It is a tragedy what happened. It doesn't need to stay that way. That's my point.

+pablo

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The idea that we need to give this woman money to feel better or make up for living through the 1950s is absurd.

If anything we need to ensure that his false narrative - that they were in any way unsafe - is changed.

88planoAg said:

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I think the answer to 'who pays', according to those who support reparations, is the American government, because there is "plenty of money we already spend on wars". You can see it already in his answers.

It is absurd. The people of all colors paying into the government now need to turn around and gift - who, exactly? because of the sins of the past.

Taxes are everyone's $$. But taxes need to go to a specific portion of the American population to make things equitable because of ancestor sins.

---

Was it right for our government to make promises and then break them? Apparently not. A recent SCOTUS decision started of with this by Justice Gorsuch,

"On the far end of the Trail of Tears was a promise. Forced to leave their ancestral lands in Georgia and Alabama, the Creek Nation received assurances that their new lands in the West would be secure forever."

I contend that we made promises to former slaves and we canceled them the very next term. That was not right to do and we should right that wrong.

+pablo

PabloSerna said:

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88planoAg said:

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I think the answer to 'who pays', according to those who support reparations, is the American government, because there is "plenty of money we already spend on wars". You can see it already in his answers.

It is absurd. The people of all colors paying into the government now need to turn around and gift - who, exactly? because of the sins of the past.

Taxes are everyone's $$. But taxes need to go to a specific portion of the American population to make things equitable because of ancestor sins.

---

Was it right for our government to make promises and then break them? Apparently not. A recent SCOTUS decision started of with this by Justice Gorsuch,

"On the far end of the Trail of Tears was a promise. Forced to leave their ancestral lands in Georgia and Alabama, the Creek Nation received assurances that their new lands in the West would be secure forever."

I contend that we made promises to former slaves and we canceled them the very next term. That was not right to do and we should right that wrong.

+pablo

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Then stop dodging the question of how this gets done by saying 'set up a committee'. Please explain how to determine who gets $, acres and a mule.

PabloSerna said:

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88planoAg said:

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I think the answer to 'who pays', according to those who support reparations, is the American government, because there is "plenty of money we already spend on wars". You can see it already in his answers.

It is absurd. The people of all colors paying into the government now need to turn around and gift - who, exactly? because of the sins of the past.

Taxes are everyone's $$. But taxes need to go to a specific portion of the American population to make things equitable because of ancestor sins.

---

Was it right for our government to make promises and then break them? Apparently not. A recent SCOTUS decision started of with this by Justice Gorsuch,

"On the far end of the Trail of Tears was a promise. Forced to leave their ancestral lands in Georgia and Alabama, the Creek Nation received assurances that their new lands in the West would be secure forever."

I contend that we made promises to former slaves and we canceled them the very next term. That was not right to do and we should right that wrong.

+pablo

---

show me the recently freed slaves and i will start a gofundme. the truth is for the past 50 years- that's 4-5 generations abundant opportunities have been given to blacks as a group that whites as a group did not see. some took advantage and have become prosperous. some did not.

A failure to do so does not lie at the door of white people.

regardless, cutting a check by taxing white people who had nothing to do with slavery will do nothing long term for the black community and is illegal, immoral, and unjust. if you think it will then you know nothing about the spending habits of poor people.

I was trying to use a personal experience to respond to your comments. I guess that got lost in my effort.

You are asking for specifics, I don't have any - other than to be open to this discussion. I relate the personal story because it is what drew me out of my point of view previously.

I have no idea what it means to be black in America. But I won't dismiss their experiences anymore.

+pablo

PabloSerna said:

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AggieKeith15 said:

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PabloSerna said:

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AggieKeith15 said:

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PabloSerna said:

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The major flaw in this narrative is two fold:

1. That Kellen should be ashamed of his ancestors decisions and remain quiet.

2. That just because you did not know about something before (ignorance) means you should do nothing. The old "ignorance is bliss" argument.

Kellen is his own man and I am sure he knows that this is his time, his school, and his decision. The OP's assertion about Kellen's ancestry has no bearing.

Looking forward to tomorrow. Bringing my family to witness history I would hope.

+Pablo

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These are assumptions. No where in that email does it say Mond is to do nothing or to be ashamed.

And despite your disbelief of a melting pot here in America, Mond's ancestors would suggest otherwise. If you have an issue with the phrase, please feel free to make a new thread, as it's not relevant her

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I can see that point. Ashamed is not equivalent to "failed" as Dr. Farias wrote. It is however still a rebuke of his actions in light of his connection to his family's linage. That is what I am pointing to as some sort of effort on the author's part.

He also brought up "melting pot" and I think it explains part of his reasoning. I do think it does belong on this thread as it frames the basis for his claim - in my opinion.

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When things don't add up, things don't add up.

Tomorrow's protest is being sponsored by BLM. The same group that wants reparations for being oppressed by Confederates and slave owners. Will Mond not have to pay those? I wonder what you think on that...

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We spent, as a nation, quite a bit on the War on Terror as I recall. Our past and current administrations find enough so-called "ghost money" to pay foreign leaders to buy intelligence - I am quite sure, the smartest minds in our great country can come up with a plan. Like Coach Pop said, "We have to get to the reparations discussion"

+pablo

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Nice dodge. This is a discussion about reparations. So what is your answer to Pablo's question?

Will Mond not have to pay those? I wonder what you think on that...

Ags4DaWin said:

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PabloSerna said:

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88planoAg said:

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I think the answer to 'who pays', according to those who support reparations, is the American government, because there is "plenty of money we already spend on wars". You can see it already in his answers.

It is absurd. The people of all colors paying into the government now need to turn around and gift - who, exactly? because of the sins of the past.

Taxes are everyone's $$. But taxes need to go to a specific portion of the American population to make things equitable because of ancestor sins.

---

Was it right for our government to make promises and then break them? Apparently not. A recent SCOTUS decision started of with this by Justice Gorsuch,

"On the far end of the Trail of Tears was a promise. Forced to leave their ancestral lands in Georgia and Alabama, the Creek Nation received assurances that their new lands in the West would be secure forever."

I contend that we made promises to former slaves and we canceled them the very next term. That was not right to do and we should right that wrong.

+pablo

---

show me the recently freed slaves and i will start a gofundme. the truth is for the past 50 years- that's 4-5 generations abundant opportunities have been given to blacks as a group that whites as a group did not see. some took advantage and have become prosperous. some did not.

A failure to do so does not lie at the door of white people.

---

yeah - I was always using the "we" to make my point.

+pablo

88planoAg said:

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PabloSerna said:

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88planoAg said:

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I think the answer to 'who pays', according to those who support reparations, is the American government, because there is "plenty of money we already spend on wars". You can see it already in his answers.

It is absurd. The people of all colors paying into the government now need to turn around and gift - who, exactly? because of the sins of the past.

Taxes are everyone's $$. But taxes need to go to a specific portion of the American population to make things equitable because of ancestor sins.

---

Was it right for our government to make promises and then break them? Apparently not. A recent SCOTUS decision started of with this by Justice Gorsuch,

"On the far end of the Trail of Tears was a promise. Forced to leave their ancestral lands in Georgia and Alabama, the Creek Nation received assurances that their new lands in the West would be secure forever."

I contend that we made promises to former slaves and we canceled them the very next term. That was not right to do and we should right that wrong.

+pablo

---

Then stop dodging the question of how this gets done by saying 'set up a committee'. Please explain how to determine who gets $, acres and a mule.

---

Honestly - that IS how things get done in the government. Committees, Blue Ribbon panels, tasks forces, - choose your titles.

For you or others here that think I have a solution - I don't -

Which is why, like him or not, what Coach Pop said was incredibly insightful - "we need to get to the reparations discussion"

+pablo

PabloSerna said:

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Ags4DaWin said:

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PabloSerna said:

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88planoAg said:

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I think the answer to 'who pays', according to those who support reparations, is the American government, because there is "plenty of money we already spend on wars". You can see it already in his answers.

It is absurd. The people of all colors paying into the government now need to turn around and gift - who, exactly? because of the sins of the past.

Taxes are everyone's $$. But taxes need to go to a specific portion of the American population to make things equitable because of ancestor sins.

---

Was it right for our government to make promises and then break them? Apparently not. A recent SCOTUS decision started of with this by Justice Gorsuch,

"On the far end of the Trail of Tears was a promise. Forced to leave their ancestral lands in Georgia and Alabama, the Creek Nation received assurances that their new lands in the West would be secure forever."

I contend that we made promises to former slaves and we canceled them the very next term. That was not right to do and we should right that wrong.

+pablo

---

show me the recently freed slaves and i will start a gofundme. the truth is for the past 50 years- that's 4-5 generations abundant opportunities have been given to blacks as a group that whites as a group did not see. some took advantage and have become prosperous. some did not.

A failure to do so does not lie at the door of white people.

---

yeah - I was always using the "we" to make my point.

+pablo

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That was not the point of my post. i gave you further clarification here:

regardless, cutting a check by taxing white people who had nothing to do with slavery will do nothing long term for the black community and is illegal, immoral, and unjust. if you think it will then you know nothing about the spending habits of poor people.

feel free to respond to the actual point i made in which preferential treatment has been given to blacks in EVERY arena from government contracts, to hiring practices, to higher education, to scholarships and grants for 50 years.

what else other than stealing from people who committed no crime via taxation and giving to people who have more abundant opportunities than whites via the programs i outlined above should we do?

and as out lined above the programs i mentioned have been in service for 4-5 generations. how many more generations of unequal opportunity and favoritism must we engage in before we wipe the slate clean.

when people can go from poor to middle class in a single generation, it would stand to reason that we are nearing the end of our obligation if we have not come to that point already.

All I know is the Democratic Party had the House, Senate and the Presidency. No actions on reparations or citizenship for illegal immigrants. Since this was not addressed day 1, the issues must not be as important as presented. It seems like a big swindle to get certain groups to vote for certain parties.

Few groups have had as much harm done to the in our historical sense but there are a lot of other groups that lived through these times. My father was Hispanic and he had to use the back door and not sit at the counter as well. Why do other people of different heritages harmed like this get paid out as well. Irish, Chinese etc. the list is long if you go down this pathway. Who defines what qualifies for reparations.

Are all people of color covered? What if a person can't trace their lineage to prove their ancestors were actually in bondage. What if my father immigrated and my mother has lineage back to slavery? What if my mother is black and my father is white? Do they get half of a share?

Seems they should have come to conclusions on how this should be proposed before even bringing it into public discourse.

who?mikejones said:

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Also, who cares what pop said? He has no more relevancy than any other person on this topic.

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Does +Pablo mean the same Coach Pop that has been sucking of... err I mean up to the NBA's Chinese masters as they use slave labor and commit ethnic genocide. That hypocritical Coach Pop? Spare me

Great Swimming pool example.
Swimming pool example Happened to many grandfathers age 90 and over.
Dads now in their late 70s would hear about it growing up. But could have gone to the pool. Probably didn't because....
Sons around age 50 would hear the stories passed down, much less though.
Kids of the 50 year old will more than likely will never hear those stories.
Their kids will never hear those stories.

From today It's gonna take a generation or two to wipe out that swimming pool history. Unless the 50 year old dad tells his kids or his grandkids. Then it has at least another generation with one family to be erased.

Not getting into anything else y'all are going back and forth on. Just that the swimming pool story is a great example and did happen.

Which 40 acres are we supposed to give them? Can we give them the tract where the UN Headquarters sit?

That is his great great grandfather in that image

Huh. I thought slavery was legal in the U.S. right up until it wasn't with the ratification of the 13th Amendment.

Immoral, sure I'll grant that, but I'm not responsible for someone else's transgressions that happened over 150 year ago. I don't care how egregious.

I'm sure ultimate justice has been administered..

+ not pablo (obviously)

PabloSerna said:

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Fightin TX Aggie said:

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Quote:

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There is a growing and unstable income gap

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Look at the only places in the world that have risen from the sort of grinding poverty that has plagued mankind, and you will find capitalism.

Look at the only places in the world that have tamped down on corruption and despotism; there you will find capitalism.

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I don't dent that capitalism is a good thing. I would say that we are in agreement on these two points. I am saying that we have a ways to go. Talking about it with the people most affected is a start to righting a systemic wrong.

+pablo

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You advocate equal outcomes and that is not possible.